On the Couch- brilliant

[magnifisaint]

Roos has hit the nail on the head. Of course it's 20 20 but what he said makes sense. The game plan is f***ed and needs to be fixed. They need to retire a few also and change captain. Geary brings nothing to the table. You need to be inspirational to be captain. Not some plodder.

[freely]

and yet - Nick Maxwell, Cameron Ling.

[Saintmatt]

and yet - Nick Maxwell, Cameron Ling.

Yep. I'm embarrassed that our Captain would barely get a game in most other teams - let alone the good ones. But - neither would pretty much the rest of our team. And that is the main difference between Geary and Ling/Maxwell.

The other two would've Captained 10 players in their respective teams that would've walked into every other team.

The long and the short of it is that our Swiss cheese list build is poop with numpties in charge of recruiting. We have so little star power that it's not funny. The footy world finally waking up to the fact that we're pretty much the only team without at least 1 A grader just makes me feel sick.

[The Barometer]

and yet - Nick Maxwell, Cameron Ling.

Ling was a GOP
Geary is just an OP

[Crossy66]

Looking in the mirror doesnt serve much purpose other than to pin the blame on those responsible for a flawed rebuild strategy. Particularly as the chief architect has moved on and doesnt seem to have been embraced by another club (Pelchan). We are where we are and the relevant part of Roos's commentary is about whats we can do from here.
I dont think our list is too bad, it just lacks some top end talent and a few of the potential stars need to lose the "potential" part and become A Graders.

I think the question they need to ask is who will be in our team on our next grand final day and then make the tough calls. We need to make some tough calls on a few players that are hard workers, put in lots of effort, but simply lack the skill. One example would be Newnes, but there are a few others. They try hard but they butcher the ball and turnovers cost goals going back the other way

The other issue Roos and a number of others have mentioned is "structure". particularly in the forward line. Seems to be no coordination between mids and forwards.
I think Roos is correct, if Paddy plays, he has to be more of a stay home forward. I am not sure he and Bruce (along with Membrey) can play in the same forward line. Either add another pressure mid or bring Marshall in for one of them as he is better as a dual purpose player.
Either way, Structure is a reflection on the coaches.
3 games in and still time to turn things around!

[spert]

and yet - Nick Maxwell, Cameron Ling.

Ling was a GOP
Geary is just an OP

Ling was a VGOP- saw quite a few matches where he had big quarters and got Geelong back in games.

[Grrrrr]

Roos has hit the nail on the head. Of course it's 20 20 but what he said makes sense. The game plan is f***ed and needs to be fixed. They need to retire a few also and change captain. Geary brings nothing to the table. You need to be inspirational to be captain. Not some plodder.

And who would you suggest to replace Geary as captain? Is there anyone on our list capable of being an inspirational leader? Carlisle (but he has history)? Steven? Armitage? I dunno...

[DJ Higgins]

And who would you suggest to replace Geary as captain? Is there anyone on our list capable of being an inspirational leader? Carlisle (but he has history)? Steven? Armitage? I dunno...

Carlisle is not captain material. Did you see him stop trying last week cause he got frustrated. Don't get me wrong he is a gun and one of our best but not the right temperament for the top job

[Saintmatt]

Looking in the mirror doesnt serve much purpose other than to pin the blame on those responsible for a flawed rebuild strategy. Particularly as the chief architect has moved on and doesnt seem to have been embraced by another club (Pelchan). We are where we are and the relevant part of Roos's commentary is about whats we can do from here.
I dont think our list is too bad, it just lacks some top end talent and a few of the potential stars need to lose the "potential" part and become A Graders.

I think the question they need to ask is who will be in our team on our next grand final day and then make the tough calls. We need to make some tough calls on a few players that are hard workers, put in lots of effort, but simply lack the skill. One example would be Newnes, but there are a few others. They try hard but they butcher the ball and turnovers cost goals going back the other way

The other issue Roos and a number of others have mentioned is "structure". particularly in the forward line. Seems to be no coordination between mids and forwards.
I think Roos is correct, if Paddy plays, he has to be more of a stay home forward. I am not sure he and Bruce (along with Membrey) can play in the same forward line. Either add another pressure mid or bring Marshall in for one of them as he is better as a dual purpose player.
Either way, Structure is a reflection on the coaches.
3 games in and still time to turn things around!

A good summary. I think the odd person out is actually Bruce. If Paddy plays deep (IF! I'm not sold he can be anything other than a deep forward but even then, I'd just run off him all day if I was his defender). Bruce hasn't taken many contested marks for 2 years (yes, he contests and brings the ball to ground) but for a marking forward - a few clunks resulting in shots at goal are required. Bruce is also possibly the worst 2nd ruck in history. Even Acres is more effective. Membrey on the other hand can push up and play the Tom Lynch role (would be good to still have the actual Tom Lynch but instead we turned that pick 13 into a spud @ Casey/Sandy and then used our traded pick from Adelaide on ... Jack Newnes. Kill me.). I really would rather play Josh Battle than Bruce. And if he doesn't show something soon - ahead of McCartin also.

Our structure is just f$%ed anyway and I have zero faith in our coaching group (who have zero premiership experience between them) to either coach a modern game plan that either suits our limited list (like what Hardwick - of all people - managed to do) or, inspire the players to lift and follow the current (2006-era kick it high to 3 talls and hope) plan.

[saynta]

Without going into specifics they also had a general dig at the recruiters.

One could almost imagine the On The Couch guys used Saintsational as their research "source"

Thank goodness for that. At last a couple of experts stating what i have been saying for years. It was pure foley to get rid of Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy and to not retain Lynch and Cripps.

Pelchan was a prick who has set the club on a course to disaster. Now it is so bleeding obvious even the hate brigade has cottoned on. As a poster points out above pelcan droppings was a fraud who conned the club. A clown who drank his own bathwater and we were stupid enough to buy it.

Hurts to hear two blokes who I despise and who in turn despise the saints talk sense for a change.

[samuraisaint]

Without going into specifics they also had a general dig at the recruiters.

One could almost imagine the On The Couch guys used Saintsational as their research "source"

Thank goodness for that. At last a couple of experts stating what i have been saying for years. It was pure foley to get rid of Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy and to not retain Lynch and cripps.

Pelchan was a prick who has set the club on a course to disaster. Now it is so bleeding obvious. As a poster points out above he was a fraud who conned the club. A clown who drank his own bathwater and we were stupid enough to buy it.

Hurts to hear two blokes who I despise and who in turn despise the saints talk sense for a change.

Tom Lynch is the example I always give when people talk about trading Paddy or Hickey. With proper development players improve not go backwards. If Paddy goes somewhere else he'll become a very good player.
Cripps should never have been traded so cheaply just because he wanted to return to WA. West Coast said they would reciprocate when the situation is reversed, and when it was, Mitch Brown, they didn't. How handy would those two guys be in our forward line this year?

[spert]

Coaches with finals experience as player or senior coach who took us to finals- from memory.

Sheldon- premiership experience - Saints to finals
Alves - premiership experience - Saints to GF
GT- country premiership coach x4 - Saints to finals


Coaches with finals experience as player or coach who failed to take us to finals:
Jewell
Jezza
Patterson (almost)
Watters
Richo (so far)

No finals playing or senior coaching experience:
Jeans - Saints to premiership
RL- - Saints to 2 GFs
Gellie

[Moods]

and yet - Nick Maxwell, Cameron Ling.

Both AA's at different times....

[saynta]

Without going into specifics they also had a general dig at the recruiters.

One could almost imagine the On The Couch guys used Saintsational as their research "source"

Thank goodness for that. At last a couple of experts stating what i have been saying for years. It was pure foley to get rid of Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy and to not retain Lynch and cripps.

Pelchan was a prick who has set the club on a course to disaster. Now it is so bleeding obvious. As a poster points out above he was a fraud who conned the club. A clown who drank his own bathwater and we were stupid enough to buy it.

Hurts to hear two blokes who I despise and who in turn despise the saints talk sense for a change.

Tom Lynch is the example I always give when people talk about trading Paddy or Hickey. With proper development players improve not go backwards. If Paddy goes somewhere else he'll become a very good player.
Cripps should never have been traded so cheaply just because he wanted to return to WA. West Coast said they would reciprocate when the situation is reversed, and when it was, Mitch Brown, they didn't. How handy would those two guys be in our forward line this year?

Too true mate and it sux.

[magnifisaint]

Roos has hit the nail on the head. Of course it's 20 20 but what he said makes sense. The game plan is f***ed and needs to be fixed. They need to retire a few also and change captain. Geary brings nothing to the table. You need to be inspirational to be captain. Not some plodder.

And who would you suggest to replace Geary as captain? Is there anyone on our list capable of being an inspirational leader? Carlisle (but he has history)? Steven? Armitage? I dunno...

Not sure but I know he's not the answer.

[Saintmatt]

Coaches with finals experience as player or senior coach who took us to finals- from memory.

Sheldon- premiership experience - Saints to finals
Alves - premiership experience - Saints to GF
GT- country premiership coach x4 - Saints to finals


Coaches with finals experience as player or coach who failed to take us to finals:
Jewell
Jezza
Patterson (almost)
Watters
Richo (so far)

No finals playing or senior coaching experience:
Jeans - Saints to premiership
RL- - Saints to 2 GFs
Gellie

Slight correction Spert - Ross Lyon was Sydney's Senior Assistant & midfield coach during their Premiership year. More than experienced (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-27/l ... ub-to-king)

Having said that - you're dead right - our entire coaching list of bereft of anyone who's had Premiership experience. Simon Lethlean said something very interesting recently - 'sooner or later, you need to get people into your club who know how to get it done'. A none too pointed jibe at our distinct lack of people at our club who have zero idea/experience on how to get it done.

[Rocket]

8 x games in Tassie
10 x games at Etihad
4 x away

Make the move. Long term financial stability and puts us front and centre in Tassie again. Tassie Saints no issue here. Pick up a few extra draft concessions and away.

Two bases one in Tassie and one in Moorabbin.

[Saintmatt]

Without going into specifics they also had a general dig at the recruiters.

One could almost imagine the On The Couch guys used Saintsational as their research "source"

Thank goodness for that. At last a couple of experts stating what i have been saying for years. It was pure foley to get rid of Goddard, Dal Santo and McEvoy and to not retain Lynch and cripps.

Pelchan was a prick who has set the club on a course to disaster. Now it is so bleeding obvious. As a poster points out above he was a fraud who conned the club. A clown who drank his own bathwater and we were stupid enough to buy it.

Hurts to hear two blokes who I despise and who in turn despise the saints talk sense for a change.

Tom Lynch is the example I always give when people talk about trading Paddy or Hickey. With proper development players improve not go backwards. If Paddy goes somewhere else he'll become a very good player.
Cripps should never have been traded so cheaply just because he wanted to return to WA. West Coast said they would reciprocate when the situation is reversed, and when it was, Mitch Brown, they didn't. How handy would those two guys be in our forward line this year?

Too true mate and it sux.

Yep. Lynch. Kill. Me. A Saint as a kid and we torched him under Ross Lyon. It's a miracle Armo became as good as he did when you consider how long he was left to rot at Casey / Sandy. Zero development at the Saints - we're shite.

[luis suarez]

in my view we're well and truly stuffed - the list is simply not good enough...and there is no quick fix.
i go back to the end of 2000 and we had picks 1 and 2 and we landed roo, kosi, Hamill and the G train. In '01 we pick up Ball, X Clarke, Dal, Heath Black Goose and Joey.
Then BJ in '02 followed by Gram and Penny the season after. All this to complement the talent already there. e.g. Aussie, Lenny, Milney and the vets (Harvs, Buckets and Burkey)
Pretty handy side isn't it.
All put together within what 3 to 4 years.
if we had deployed resources in the right channels we defo jag one flag at least.
What am I saying ?
we will never find ourselves in that position again.
Now there's free agency (which where we find ourselves now is not our friend) 2 more sides in the comp and no more priority picks to help us.
Right now we are a very long long way back with no quick fixes.
And being really honest I reckon we're looking at the next three years at least of being bottom 3 0r 4.
And with this upcoming super draft our only hope would be to have those early multiple picks of '01. And unfortunately that aint gonna happen.

[MC Gusto]

8 x games in Tassie
10 x games at the g
4 x away

Make the move. Long term financial stability and puts us front and centre in Tassie again. Tassie Saints no issue here. Pick up a few extra draft concessions and away.

Two bases one in Tassie and one in Moorabbin.

Edited!

[saintsRrising]

I dont think our list is too bad, it just lacks some top end talent and a few of the potential stars need to lose the "potential" part and become A Graders.

The problem is that the top end talent is the hardest to get and is a key reason why we are currently off the pace.

Having genuine stars helps to get the rest of the list walking taller and playing well. Conversely not having them means when things go against us that the heads and effort drops.


We are not a total write off, but we seriously need to start Rebuild Stage 2. This is not a one year renovation project either. We need to address the dead wood (both players and coaches), and that we have too many GOPs who might individually be ok but who in their number make us into a GOP Team.

[freely]

and yet - Nick Maxwell, Cameron Ling.

Both AA's at different times....

Not saying they weren't good - but "inspirational"? I don't see it.

[st.byron]

Coach and Trout are at the centre of the storm. They’re both looking pretty crappy at this time. Must be on borrowed time.

[SaintPav]

Makes depressing reading.

No quick fixes.

We’re stuffed.

[barneyboyz]

8 x games in Tassie
10 x games at Etihad
4 x away

Make the move. Long term financial stability and puts us front and centre in Tassie again. Tassie Saints no issue here. Pick up a few extra draft concessions and away.

Two bases one in Tassie and one in Moorabbin.

At least we might be hard to beat at two venues, eventually. Lets face it, after 140 odd years, 50 odd since a flag, it aint getting any easier. I got grand kids that might never see one otherwise