Sack the Coach

[congorozides]

Hardwick didn't inherit a list anywhere near as bad as the one Richo got when he took over in 2014.

Richmond finished 2nd last in both 2009 and 2010.
We finished 3rd last in 2013.

They also had a compromised draft to deal with in 2010. They finished 2nd bottom but only got pick 6.

What is the diff?

[Drake Huggins]

I don't want the milky bar kid sacked. I 'm just staggered they offered him a two year extension based on his record so far. Surely we could've waited until half way through the year. His record doesn't warrant it and there are plenty of worrying signs.

[Bruce G McAbee]

He will be under pressure if we don't make the finals this year, even more so if we don't look like making the finals.

[Jacks Back]

He will be under pressure if we don't make the finals this year, even more so if we don't look like making the finals.

And he then still has 2 years to go.

[SaintPav]

That requires an improvement of 46% or 23/50.

We’re not that close if you use percentages.

Simple arithmetic.

Very simple indeed when applied in a win/loss ratio without applying it to performance.

Does our defence improve or just our attack.

Does our score increase without any effect on the opposition?

You’ve lost me.

[CQ SAINT]

That requires an improvement of 46% or 23/50.

We’re not that close if you use percentages.

Simple arithmetic.

Very simple indeed when applied in a win/loss ratio without applying it to performance.

Does our defence improve or just our attack.

Does our score increase without any effect on the opposition?

You’ve lost me.

Take a result like

Sydney 8.8.56 vs St.kilda 4.4.28

If we improve 25% the result can be predicted as

Sydney 6.6.42 vs St.Kilda 6.6.42

Game time remains the same so if we possess the ball more the opposition posseses it less.

On goal kicking alone 25% IMPROVEMENT would have put us in the 4 on last years resilts.

46% improvement only applies to the win/loss ratio and is no where near an indication of how much we need to IMPROVE. Although it would be great and applied to performance rather than result would likely see us go undefeated.

[iwantmeseats]

He will be under pressure if we don't make the finals this year, even more so if we don't look like making the finals.

And he then still has 2 years to go.

Yep. WHY did they have to sign him up? Makes no sense and your just setting yourself up to be shot down.

[iwantmeseats]

We finished 11th last year. We haven't made finals for 7 years and are unlikely to this year. We still don't have any elite players on our list. We're going gangbusters. The prosecution rests. I wish it was different, but the reality is we're nowhere near it. Groundhog day.

The prosecution rests. Thank god for that. The jury is now out and we should have a verdict by 2021. Excellent points made by the defence, BFUSA.

Indeed, takeaway. He made some excellent points for the defence, which were, unfortunately fatally flawed and typical of the sophist style arguments the defence runs. Not facts but irrelevant arguments and splitting hairs and manipulating information. Any good defence barrister will school you in this. It is way more comforting for the delusional to take the easy road and explanation. It takes courage to face facts and do something about your situation. Ask any addict. We are currently in another cycle of failure and denial. You guys remind me of a drug rehab group I run. Eventually, the ones who lose their addiction face facts. The others cycle in and out of their delusions, doomed until an inevitable fate of death or dysfunction.

We will have an answer by the end of 2018. As Doctor PHIL says, "the best indicator of future performance is past performance." Any organisational psychologist and psychiatrist will tell you this. As the Pythons used to sing, " How sweet to be an idiot, so sweet."

PS. Everything the club tells you is the truth. The truth. THE TRUTH. Now give us your donations and membership fees. THE TRUTH. We will make the finals in 2018. We will win a flag by 2020. THe truth. The truth. Now give us that BSB and account number. We need another 4-5 million to pay our coaches, recruiters and physical conditioning staff to prepare us to fail. We are doing a FANTASTIC job. We are on track. Believe us. Follow the sheeple. We're doing it to you again, but you can't help yourself can you? We'll keep stringing you along until we've exhausted your patience and wallet. Then we'll move interstate and get the AFL and media rights to take you place. Stuff your history. Stuff your passion, commitment and contribution. We're off to make our situation better.
Yours Faithfully
Matt, Simon, AR, JC, flathead, Wayne Hughes and Matt Hornsby. Sponsored by Gilligan.

The only one not telling the truth here is you. You distort documented facts. You have your agenda because you hate Trout because Elshagh replaced you with other experts that he valued more? We are starting Year 5 of the strategic plan. It wasn’t a guarantee. It was a plan with objectives. Objectives not promises. So far the club is on track. Only one recruiting objective short with no big fish this year. Instead we got Clarke and Coffield (which would have been the cost of Kelly) and I am comfortable with that outcome. I shall judge the strategic plan once it comes to an end which was always stated as 2020. I believe the plan is solid and will bare fruit. You can believe differently.

BFUSA, everything you’ve said makes sense and I agree with the points you’ve made. Yet I feel totally unenthused about the coming year. Something about the playing group, the game style, the coach leaves me uninspired. We just seem so vanilla, as a team, a coaching group and a club. When I compare this to the start of 2004 it’s chalk and cheese. Is this just me or do others feel this?

Ah nah, not just you . Im feeling you. This year/era has absolutely SFA flatl line zero of the hope and excitement of 2004. Nada,zilch,none.

[CQ SAINT]

He will be under pressure if we don't make the finals this year, even more so if we don't look like making the finals.

And he then still has 2 years to go.

Yep. WHY did they have to sign him up? Makes no sense and your just setting yourself up to be shot down.

If you dont you are leaving yourself to be shot down anyway.

You cant just wait out contracts and reset when they expire. That is why both parties in a contract agree to milestones, conditions, clauses and reviews. I dont think JLT results count for much. Particularly when you win 10 games in your first 2 seasons with heaps of new players and aging stars and win 23 in your next 2 with a very inexperienced team. No doubt we will review again at years end.

There is nothing to suggest we shouldn't have made the extension.

[parkeysainter]

I agreed with the Richo contract extension. Its been discussed on here before, but anyway...

He is only in his 5th year and has been rebuilding a side full of holes since his first day on the job. He has steered a side that finished bottom of the ladder to the edge of finals whilst trying to develop a large number of draft picks at the same time. He is done very well with this young list and the ladder position and win/loss ratio has improved since his first year. 2016 was a heaps easier draw so that is why we lost 1 less game in 2017. We are a much better side now than 2016.

Its great the club gave Richo the time, trust and confidence to see it out. The players would adhere to that also which is only a good thing. Everyone is on the same page at the club which I reckon is great. FQF!!

Discussing his position on the eve of the first game of a brand new season is just total BS. Seriously...a ball hasn't even bounced yet.

[spert]

Five years as an unsuccessful coach (no finals) in high level sport is a dream run, and Richo should be pinching himself. This season will be his make or break.

[prwilkinson]

I agreed with the Richo contract extension. Its been discussed on here before, but anyway...

He is only in his 5th year and has been rebuilding a side full of holes since his first day on the job. He has steered a side that finished bottom of the ladder to the edge of finals whilst trying to develop a large number of draft picks at the same time. He is done very well with this young list and the ladder position and win/loss ratio has improved since his first year. 2016 was a heaps easier draw so that is why we lost 1 less game in 2017. We are a much better side now than 2016.

Its great the club gave Richo the time, trust and confidence to see it out. The players would adhere to that also which is only a good thing. Everyone is on the same page at the club which I reckon is great. FQF!!

Discussing his position on the eve of the first game of a brand new season is just total BS. Seriously...a ball hasn't even bounced yet.

Well said.

[parkeysainter]

Five years as an unsuccessful coach (no finals) in high level sport is a dream run, and Richo should be pinching himself. This season will be his make or break.

He's in his 5th year now (only coached 4 years). You can't call him unsuccessful considering where he started with a team at the bottom. He has actually been sucessful in getting the Saints up the ladder, building a better side and developing kids each year.

Definately not make or break for Richo this year at all, but we should be aiming to make the finals this year which the Saints no doubt are. He will very highly likely be around until the end of his contract.

Dream runs...talk about Nathan Buckley.

[happy feet]

As a coach, I'm not sure about Richo. He seemed to be the right pick but we have not played well for a while. is it has game plan, or is it the players not implementing the plan?

There is so many variables to success but I guess if we were to terminate his tenure, who would we get to replace?

I get this feeling that he will return to Collingwood once they sack Nathan Buckley.

[Con Gorozidis]

As a coach, I'm not sure about Richo. He seemed to be the right pick but we have not played well for a while. is it has game plan, or is it the players not implementing the plan?

There is so many variables to success but I guess if we were to terminate his tenure, who would we get to replace?

I get this feeling that he will return to Collingwood once they sack Nathan Buckley.

Let me get this straight.

People think a huge club like Collingwood will replace a big name like Buckley (51% win rate) with a smaller name Alan Richardson (40% win rate) ?

It won't happen. Seriously get real.

Collingwood will be chasing Clarkson or Roos or something of that nature.

[desertsaint]

thinking that clarkson's contract ends when buckley's does. a strange coincidence?

[samoht]

Yeah, coaches make all the difference.
I mean - great move by Richmond for finally biting the bullet and appointing a new coach last season - and bad move by the Bulldogs for not sticking with their 2016 premiership coach.

And RL has it all - how did we let him slip away? - I mean he's the 19-0 and 0-10 coach all wrapped in one, what more can you ask for in a coach?

[Con Gorozidis]

Yeah, coaches make all the difference.
I mean - great move by Richmond for finally biting the bullet and appointing a new coach last season - and bad move by the Bulldogs for not sticking with their 2016 premiership coach.

And RL has it all - how did we let him slip away? - I mean he's the 19-0 and 0-10 coach all wrapped in one, what more can you ask for in a coach?

I agree.
The whole of the club is the issue. You can't just focus on the coach.

[SaintPav]

That requires an improvement of 46% or 23/50.

We’re not that close if you use percentages.

Simple arithmetic.

Very simple indeed when applied in a win/loss ratio without applying it to performance.

Does our defence improve or just our attack.

Does our score increase without any effect on the opposition?

You’ve lost me.

Take a result like

Sydney 8.8.56 vs St.kilda 4.4.28

If we improve 25% the result can be predicted as

Sydney 6.6.42 vs St.Kilda 6.6.42

Game time remains the same so if we possess the ball more the opposition posseses it less.

On goal kicking alone 25% IMPROVEMENT would have put us in the 4 on last years resilts.

46% improvement only applies to the win/loss ratio and is no where near an indication of how much we need to IMPROVE. Although it would be great and applied to performance rather than result would likely see us go undefeated.

Yes, I'm only talking about win/loss percentage changes required to reach top spot.

You're talking about about something very different. Not sure I agree with your assumptions and arithmetic.

[CQ SAINT]

That requires an improvement of 46% or 23/50.

We’re not that close if you use percentages.

Simple arithmetic.

Very simple indeed when applied in a win/loss ratio without applying it to performance.

Does our defence improve or just our attack.

Does our score increase without any effect on the opposition?

You’ve lost me.

Take a result like

Sydney 8.8.56 vs St.kilda 4.4.28

If we improve 25% the result can be predicted as

Sydney 6.6.42 vs St.Kilda 6.6.42

Game time remains the same so if we possess the ball more the opposition posseses it less.

On goal kicking alone 25% IMPROVEMENT would have put us in the 4 on last years resilts.

46% improvement only applies to the win/loss ratio and is no where near an indication of how much we need to IMPROVE. Although it would be great and applied to performance rather than result would likely see us go undefeated.

Yes, I'm only talking about win/loss percentage changes required to reach top spot.

You're talking about about something very different. Not sure I agree with your assumptions and arithmetic.

Fair enough. Either way, over the last 4 years, the trend in our win/loss ratio and our performance against better lists has improved steadily or stayed on par.

Consistency and a move into the positive side of the win/loss ratio, being 12 or better wins this year, is necessary but I jave a feeling it will only get better. Unfortunately the competition has been very even in the last 2 years and we wont be the only side improving.

[SydneySainter]

I don't think Richo should be sacked, but do I think he's done enough to warrant a two year extension? Noooooooo.

While Richo is clearly a fan of good old fashioned footy methods that are exciting to watch when executed effectively, you get opened up big time when it goes south and just throwing your hands up in the air while the opposition goes to pile on a 10 goal thrashing just isn't good enough in the modern game.

The buck doesn't just stop with Richo, but the constant thrashings, losing from "unbeatable" positions, the crappy conversion rate and a lineup of talented youth that just aren't improving enough all warrant hard questioning and the excuses are wearing thin.

Essendon were wooden spooners in 2016 and during that season, half their best 22 were holidaying Europe, but not only did they thrash us last year, they played finals!

What if Carlton or Fremantle edge ahead of us this season?

[DJ Higgins]

I am not a huge fan of his but you can't blame him for one of our biggest issues. Goal kicking. We have forward coaches and goal kicking coaches that haven't got our guys firing yet. Game plan sure, over hand balling, you betcha but not converting lies with other coaches.

[Drake Huggins]

Not telling the truth, BFUSA? Does your delusion count as lying? Isn't the flathead doing a bang up job? Took over from the much maligned Peake and Bevo. Their combined record? Seven Finals series and two GFs plus a draw. Took over a disgracefully poor list in 2000. Rebuilt the club into a genuine premiership threat within four years.

What has your hero done? Six years, no finals, And more holes in the list than a sieve. Honestly, when you start insulting others and accuse them of distorting the facts, look to your own behaviour. Your defence of a lemon, who btw has five assistants and a "scout", beggars belief. Peake and Bevo had no full timers and a few suburban and interstate scouts. Compare the facts before you accuse others of lying. You're another naive numpty who swallows the flathead's BS. He has made a career of being a supposedly, "good bloke". Never achieved anything at the top level apart from being Denis Pagan's boot lick and surviving in this industry. His survival is not due to performance and achievement.

Ask Ross Lyon about him. As tough as RL could be, there was nowhere for pretenders to hide under his regime. It didn't take him long to smoke the trout out and fillet him. Still, that's RL's fautlt, isn't it? Fancy demanding performance and effort. Perhaps AR should give Ross a call for a bit of inside info. As for you, BFUSA, I hope you gave yourself a warning for abuse and baiting.

[spert]

Five years as an unsuccessful coach (no finals) in high level sport is a dream run, and Richo should be pinching himself. This season will be his make or break.

He's in his 5th year now (only coached 4 years). You can't call him unsuccessful considering where he started with a team at the bottom. He has actually been sucessful in getting the Saints up the ladder, building a better side and developing kids each year.

Definately not make or break for Richo this year at all, but we should be aiming to make the finals this year which the Saints no doubt are. He will very highly likely be around until the end of his contract.

Dream runs...talk about Nathan Buckley.

I hear you, but I disagree. Whatever goes on outside the final eight is irrelevant. You can keep the motor ticking over, but at some stage you need to put the foot on the accelerator, I don't think Richo's legs are long enough to reach the pedals.

[BackFromUSA]

Not telling the truth, BFUSA? Does your delusion count as lying? Isn't the flathead doing a bang up job? Took over from the much maligned Peake and Bevo. Their combined record? Seven Finals series and two GFs plus a draw. Took over a disgracefully poor list in 2000. Rebuilt the club into a genuine premiership threat within four years.

What has your hero done? Six years, no finals, And more holes in the list than a sieve. Honestly, when you start insulting others and accuse them of distorting the facts, look to your own behaviour. Your defence of a lemon, who btw has five assistants and a "scout", beggars belief. Peake and Bevo had no full timers and a few suburban and interstate scouts. Compare the facts before you accuse others of lying. You're another naive numpty who swallows the flathead's BS. He has made a career of being a supposedly, "good bloke". Never achieved anything at the top level apart from being Denis Pagan's boot lick and surviving in this industry. His survival is not due to performance and achievement.

Ask Ross Lyon about him. As tough as RL could be, there was nowhere for pretenders to hide under his regime. It didn't take him long to smoke the trout out and fillet him. Still, that's RL's fautlt, isn't it? Fancy demanding performance and effort. Perhaps AR should give Ross a call for a bit of inside info. As for you, BFUSA, I hope you gave yourself a warning for abuse and baiting.

Not telling the truth again! That is not a bait. That is stating a fact!

I was defending Richardson and his performance. I questioned the basis / reason for your hate towards Trout. I have never lauded Trout. I have never called him a hero. Nor have I written much (if anything) about Trout. Show me where I did. Don’t put words into my mouth. FYI- Jury is out on our draft selections but I am mostly happy with the drafting the past few years. And I am on the record here having questioned the Billings choice (commenting that he was the smallest in the top 10) and I advocated Bont pre draft because he had the skill of Dal Santo and a body like Kouta. Now we have Billings and to be honest he is damn good too.

And FYI I have known, respected and dare I say it but I have genuine affection for John Beverage. I love having a chat to him and we have had many long chats. I am well aware that he was grossly under resourced. I am well aware of the times when he was overridden by coaches on players he wanted to draft. I have sat in the old Moorabbin grandstand with him as new recruits debuted in intra club matches and had him explain to me what caught his eye. That man IS football. John (like Luke)?is a people’person. A gentleman. However just because I adore John - doesn’t mean I have to hate Trout. Time will tell for Trout’s draft picks.

Your hate for Trout (and Richardson) is truly worrying.