Sack the Coach

[Jacks Back]

It's not like any other club would be chasing him so I don't understand why we would tie up a comfortable underpants coach for another 3 years (2 years extra after this one). Makes ZERO sense.

[BackFromUSA]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

[parkeysainter]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree the rebuild only started in 2014.

In 2011,12 and 13 we were in denial.

Still don't see why u would rush to sign AR until 2020 when his win percentage sits on 35%.

Why the rush?

Smells to me like panic dressed up to appear like stability.

[BringBackMadDog]

Hardwick had 15 wins in his 4th season.

And 8 in his 6th season, so what????

[Drake Huggins]

The rebuild Started in 2012. Stop making excuses and living in denial. We got Tom Lee and Hickey for 12 and 13 (Goddard compensation) Nathan Wright and Spencer White for picks 24 and 25. A typical Pelican move. We also picked up Trent Dennis Lane, Brodie Murdoch and Josh Saunders. Outstanding. So, basically from that draft we got SFA, especially if Tom doesn't kick on. It is that draft, which should now be bearing fruit with at least three of those players becoming good standard regular senior players.

The incompetence of Pelchen and to a greater extent Elshyte is why we are struggling now. It doesn't get a whole lot better after that, either. We've done what Melbourne did from 2007-2013. Wasted a lot of good picks, through poor decisions and/or poor player development. So to make it clear, we have had six years of rebuilding and we've soared up the ladder from 16th to 11th. Some on here see that as success. Outstanding!

[Drake Huggins]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

[David-Lee]

I reckon we may just make the 8 and that will be the AR worshippers to the throne of adulation. He will see out his contract and maybe even get an extension because we don’t want another Ross Lyon situation where the board think they’ll play out a season before resigning the coach...so now we sign him on and never let him go. Ever.
I dare anyone to prove how AR has improved our game? It’s hard enough to judge because he cane when we were supposedly in a rebuild - then he went to work and now years later we are still in a rebuild ( because it takes 7 years right? fake stats based on a few teams - pretty sure the Hawks rebuilt in half a season last year Ross already has Freo potentially ready to climb the ladder).
He is a Great bloke to chat with, I have enjoyed his conversation when he actually speaks and he has a decent yet dry humour. But he is not Our guy. He NEVER will be our guy. He’s not a Hardwick ...we’re not Richmond ( let’s not take away from bulldogs or tigers but the last two seasons any team that actually had decent talent and quality coach could have won it all - meaning there was no dynasty team ruling the AFL).
AR is a Safe coach. He could coach our boys to the fringe of the 8 and maybe even get a seat once in a while - but there’s no risky play no creative moves - just safe average blokes running out to have a game.

[BackFromUSA]

The rebuild Started in 2012. Stop making excuses and living in denial. We got Tom Lee and Hickey for 12 and 13 (Goddard compensation) Nathan Wright and Spencer White for picks 24 and 25. A typical Pelican move. We also picked up Trent Dennis Lane, Brodie Murdoch and Josh Saunders. Outstanding. So, basically from that draft we got SFA, especially if Tom doesn't kick on. It is that draft, which should now be bearing fruit with at least three of those players becoming good standard regular senior players.

The incompetence of Pelchen and to a greater extent Elshyte is why we are struggling now. It doesn't get a whole lot better after that, either. We've done what Melbourne did from 2007-2013. Wasted a lot of good picks, through poor decisions and/or poor player development. So to make it clear, we have had six years of rebuilding and we've soared up the ladder from 16th to 11th. Some on here see that as success. Outstanding!

Actually that was trading and draft held st end of 2012 for the 2013 season and that draft was heavily comprised by a raft of drafting concessions to the new clubs.

The Goddard exit was not our choice!!!

Yes we got compensated but in a draft where picks were USELESS because all the real talent went north.

This year was not part of a rebuild!

We were forced to try to make the best of a bad situation with Goddard leaving and the compensation draft pick worth significantly less and beating little fruit.

The actual PLANNED rebuild started in 2014.

[BackFromUSA]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

Billings, Acres and Dunstan were drafted at the end of 2013 for the 2014 season.

They were start of the rebuild.

This was the first season that Richardson coached.

They have played for 4 years.

Stop distorting the facts.

[bigcarl]

we have 10 inside midfielders - who all do the same thing.

I want to see Gresham, Acres, Billings and Sinclair getting a lot more midfield time this season. Particularly the first two.

It's no knock on Dunstan, Armitage, Steele. All are good solid inside players, but, as you say, similar in type.

It's a matter of getting the balance right and it hasn't been and it is not.

I'm pretty sure all of the above mentioned strong inside midfielders can contribute in other roles if asked to. All three love a goal, for instance. They don't ALL have to be at every clearance/stoppage.

I feel Richo must address this issue.

We've got to mov the ball quicker. Get a bit of X-factor around the ball.

[Drake Huggins]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

Billings, Acres and Dunstan were drafted at the end of 2013 for the 2014 season.

They were start of the rebuild.

This was the first season that Richardson coached.

They have played for 4 years.

Stop distorting the facts.

Even then you admit we've had 5 years of rebuilding. You can't even count, let alone distort the facts. Damning yourself with your own "facts" . The rebuild began after Watters first year when we realised it needed to be a complete renovation. We made a partial start when Elshyte started at the end of 2011. Remember pelican's famous spreadsheet, the map of the future? At least I have actual experience of what went on. You obviously have no clue about this one. PM me if you want the facts.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

What bothers me is Maddie's Match 2017.

You know, the one where we came out and blew the eventual premiers off the park. Total domination.

Why?

Because the boys were motivated. They were playing for Roo.

Richo couldn't motivate them after that. Lost the next three matches, looked flat, failed to make the eight.

Richo needs to get into their heads, fire them up, but there's little evidence that he can do that. Four quarter efforts are nonexistent.

[st.byron]

What bothers me is Maddie's Match 2017.

You know, the one where we came out and blew the eventual premiers off the park. Total domination.

Why?

Because the boys were motivated. They were playing for Roo.

Richo couldn't motivate them after that. Lost the next three matches, looked flat, failed to make the eight.

Richo needs to get into their heads, fire them up, but there's little evidence that he can do that. Four quarter efforts are nonexistent.

Reckon you’re on the right track. What I want to feel is that the players trust Richo, that they trust his heart and balls. I don’t trust him. Strategy and tactics will take a team only so far. The golden egg is having a team that trusts on an instinctual level, not just a head level. Richo, to me, is all from the head. It makes him Mr. Vanilla. The Milky Bar Kid is a good analogy. There’s a lot of noise about creating a deep culture within the club, but scant evidence of it on-field. Need to see significant steps forward this year to assuage doubts about Richo’s ability to take them to the top level.

I have a good friend who did some extensive work with the coaches and players on developing culture within the club and in that person’s very experienced view, Richo is not a man to take us all the way.

[Vazelos]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

SPOT ON, facts get mis represented at times.
We probably are 12 months behind due to the lack of success in Free Agency but that could and should be rectified this summer.

[CQ SAINT]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

If my memory serves me right it was Port and Hawthorn's strategies we were using. 11 players exited the club at once with trade requests and retirements and we had no youth. The top end talent in the draft had been compromised by concessions and we had gone from contenders to 6th to 9th and of coirse RL had made his move.We had an ego maniac running the coaches box and the aging stars were revolting against him. We were carrying Kosi and Goddard bailed out on us because he didnt want to faceca rebuild.

6 years sounds about right to me but for the first 2 years we were actually still in a strategic decline.

Pelchens departure placed him in the role of scapegoat and Bains and Elshaugh took over.

Retrospectively, trading off picks for Lee and Hickey was foolish but at the time we needed a base. These two were not a rebuild they were a remoulding. Neither of them were fresh and unfortunately neither of them have blossomed.

I tend to think we are 2 years off but it certainly isnt AR's fault. Im patient enough to wait to 2019 for top 4 and till 2020 for a real push. We still have the war chest. We can get vack to Moorabin and we might actually make some money on the gate.

I agree that we might have been sold a false promise in the strategic plan but why would we have undersold ourselves.

Take a chill pill FFS.

[spert]

The rebuild Started in 2012. Stop making excuses and living in denial. We got Tom Lee and Hickey for 12 and 13 (Goddard compensation) Nathan Wright and Spencer White for picks 24 and 25. A typical Pelican move. We also picked up Trent Dennis Lane, Brodie Murdoch and Josh Saunders. Outstanding. So, basically from that draft we got SFA, especially if Tom doesn't kick on. It is that draft, which should now be bearing fruit with at least three of those players becoming good standard regular senior players.

The incompetence of Pelchen and to a greater extent Elshyte is why we are struggling now. It doesn't get a whole lot better after that, either. We've done what Melbourne did from 2007-2013. Wasted a lot of good picks, through poor decisions and/or poor player development. So to make it clear, we have had six years of rebuilding and we've soared up the ladder from 16th to 11th. Some on here see that as success. Outstanding!

Actually that was trading and draft held st end of 2012 for the 2013 season and that draft was heavily comprised by a raft of drafting concessions to the new clubs.

The Goddard exit was not our choice!!!

Yes we got compensated but in a draft where picks were USELESS because all the real talent went north.

This year was not part of a rebuild!

We were forced to try to make the best of a bad situation with Goddard leaving and the compensation draft pick worth significantly less and beating little fruit.

The actual PLANNED rebuild started in 2014.

Target are load of rot in this game, and serve only to be one of the many convenient excuses for failure. We have been mediocre in our results in recent years, and we need more smarts and more vision at all levels.

[BackFromUSA]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

Billings, Acres and Dunstan were drafted at the end of 2013 for the 2014 season.

They were start of the rebuild.

This was the first season that Richardson coached.

They have played for 4 years.

Stop distorting the facts.

Even then you admit we've had 5 years of rebuilding. You can't even count, let alone distort the facts. Damning yourself with your own "facts" . The rebuild began after Watters first year when we realised it needed to be a complete renovation. We made a partial start when Elshyte started at the end of 2011. Remember pelican's famous spreadsheet, the map of the future? At least I have actual experience of what went on. You obviously have no clue about this one. PM me if you want the facts.

Prior to 2014 the club brought in mature talent to make us somewhat competitive rather than bring in lower end drafted kids (because all the top talent was going north) that would get smashed without any hard bodies around them and conceded that we needed to hit the bottom and trade to get multiple early draft picks to start the real rebuild with 3 picks in the top 20 picks in multiple years. That was the plan.

Even you stated that Billings, Acres and Dunstan were the real start of the rebuild.

They started in 2014.

2014 - year 1
2015 - year 2
2016 - year 3
2017 - year 4

We have not yet played a game in 2018 for Premiership points.

This is Year 5 in a 7 year plan.

The clubs talk 5 year plans because they know fans can’t wait and the current drafting / trading system does not allow faster rebuilds.

Geelong Hawthorn and Swans all benefitted from Gold Coast and GWS draft concession as it disallowed other teams to bring in talent to challenge.

Now this is STARTING to even out.

Geelong and Sydney still maintain strong home ground advantages.

Hawthorn still has Clarkson.

They are topping up big time to stay up the top.

This strategy was perfect for where they were.

We could have tried that but our decline started a few seasons before (2011/12) and we were positioned incorrectly at the free agency introduction with a full salary cap - unable to attract more talent and in fact having to lose some because we couldn’t match the $s.

[CQ SAINT]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

Billings, Acres and Dunstan were drafted at the end of 2013 for the 2014 season.

They were start of the rebuild.

This was the first season that Richardson coached.

They have played for 4 years.

Stop distorting the facts.

Even then you admit we've had 5 years of rebuilding. You can't even count, let alone distort the facts. Damning yourself with your own "facts" . The rebuild began after Watters first year when we realised it needed to be a complete renovation. We made a partial start when Elshyte started at the end of 2011. Remember pelican's famous spreadsheet, the map of the future? At least I have actual experience of what went on. You obviously have no clue about this one. PM me if you want the facts.

Prior to 2014 the club brought in mature talent to make us somewhat competitive rather than bring in lower end drafted kids (because all the top talent was going north) that would get smashed without any hard bodies around them and conceded that we needed to hit the bottom and trade to get multiple early draft picks to start the real rebuild with 3 picks in the top 20 picks in multiple years. That was the plan.

Even you stated that Billings, Acres and Dunstan were the real start of the rebuild.

They started in 2014.

2014 - year 1
2015 - year 2
2016 - year 3
2017 - year 4

We have not yet played a game in 2018 for Premiership points.

This is Year 5 in a 7 year plan.

The clubs talk 5 year plans because they know fans can’t wait and the current drafting / trading system does not allow faster rebuilds.

Geelong Hawthorn and Swans all benefitted from Gold Coast and GWS draft concession as it disallowed other teams to bring in talent to challenge.

Now this is STARTING to even out.

Geelong and Sydney still maintain strong home ground advantages.

Hawthorn still has Clarkson.

They are topping up big time to stay up the top.

This strategy was perfect for where they were.

We could have tried that but our decline started a few seasons before (2011/12) and we were positioned incorrectly at the free agency introduction with a full salary cap - unable to attract more talent and in fact having to lose some because we couldn’t match the $s.

Realistic summary. Emotions are a bit rattled and perspective or retrospective analysis is a little distorted.

I still think were are not tracking as well as expected and there a few valid reasons/excuses why but there is no need to start sacking anyone yet.

[David-Lee]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

I’m not looking for an argument but in April 2013 Waters declares we were in rebuild mode and that same year we made a big move in the rebuild by trading away our number one ruckman to Hawthorn to really kick off the rebuild.

The AFL and 90% of the sports news declared 2013 a rebuild year for St Kilda. I won’t argue on this because it is a Fact backed by immense amount of media article you can find in a simple google search.

Were you at the 2014 season launch?
Remember this being said - “The vision is to ensure the club is "admired as a competition leader in recruiting, player development and coaching" by 2018.”

That my friend is why some are pissed off when we start season 2018 as unadmired so much to the point with a massive war chest and 2 top 10 draft picks we can’t lure a single A grade player to the club - nobody except our own fans think we have a great coach or coaching staff.Find me one article where we are touted as league leaders in player development.

The plan revealed was 2014-2018 and we win a flag no dramas by the LATEST 2018 - even Saint Nick said the same thing that night.

Now the goal posts are pushed back to 2020. As if no one remembers that day and the hype of the big strategic plan.
The coach/staff/recruiters/players have not taken us to the edge of repeatable grand final success.
This my fellow saint lover is why Some of us are pissed off and tired of being told to shut up and sit down when we were told lies too and instead of being held to account everyone gets a new fecking contract and all’s well!


When will the club stand up and tell is the Truth that they stuffed up the coaching the player development and the recruitment for the most part so that we are actually 5-6 years away right now if ever, from a top 4 finish


For you to get on here and spew the same rubbish lies as the team makes me sick!! It seeems like you are being gutless! We failed! We didn’t make it! But no one can admit they were wrong because then they would have to be accountable!
Yes we have decent players. But being ok won’t win it all. I just don’t know why a person who knows the club history would come on here and lie and say 2020 was always the goal post? Is the Club controlling what you say? Surely you know many us were at the big strategic plan launch?

When you repeat these club lies it disgusts me.

[CQ SAINT]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

I’m not looking for an argument but in April 2013 Waters declares we were in rebuild mode and that same year we made a big move in the rebuild by trading away our number one ruckman to Hawthorn to really kick off the rebuild.

The AFL and 90% of the sports news declared 2013 a rebuild year for St Kilda. I won’t argue on this because it is a Fact backed by immense amount of media article you can find in a simple google search.

Were you at the 2014 season launch?
Remember this being said - “The vision is to ensure the club is "admired as a competition leader in recruiting, player development and coaching" by 2018.”

That my friend is why some are pissed off when we start season 2018 as unadmired so much to the point with a massive war chest and 2 top 10 draft picks we can’t lure a single A grade player to the club - nobody except our own fans think we have a great coach or coaching staff.Find me one article where we are touted as league leaders in player development.

The plan revealed was 2014-2018 and we win a flag no dramas by the LATEST 2018 - even Saint Nick said the same thing that night.

Now the goal posts are pushed back to 2020. As if no one remembers that day and the hype of the big strategic plan.
The coach/staff/recruiters/players have not taken us to the edge of repeatable grand final success.
This my fellow saint lover is why Some of us are pissed off and tired of being told to shut up and sit down when we were told lies too and instead of being held to account everyone gets a new fecking contract and all’s well!


When will the club stand up and tell is the Truth that they stuffed up the coaching the player development and the recruitment for the most part so that we are actually 5-6 years away right now if ever, from a top 4 finish


For you to get on here and spew the same rubbish lies as the team makes me sick!! It seeems like you are being gutless! We failed! We didn’t make it! But no one can admit they were wrong because then they would have to be accountable!
Yes we have decent players. But being ok won’t win it all. I just don’t know why a person who knows the club history would come on here and lie and say 2020 was always the goal post? Is the Club controlling what you say? Surely you know many us were at the big strategic plan launch?

When you repeat these club lies it disgusts me.

Heres one.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/media-acad ... b8673a4ecb

Im not looking for an argument either.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-29/sai ... to-success

another.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/sai ... uopmt.html

There is a few. Reactive to a few promising wins maybe but you can say the same in reverse to a few bad losses I guess. We will have to wait a few more months to see.

[loris]

And Incase posters didn’t click on CQSaints final link.......... the winner is BackfromUSA .
The Strategic Plan was delivered to members in March 2014. It aimed for finals in 2018 and our second flag by 2020.

IMHO, BFUSA usually does his research competently and rarely goes tit for tat with posters unless he knows he’s spot on.
Just my view, for what it’s worth. So I guess Saints are still on track, only the end of the season will tell us so - if the are playing finals!

[Drake Huggins]

Simple equation. We play finals or he gets sacked. And even then scrapping into 8th on % and then losing the elim by 100 points would still have to question things
1. We have no injuries
2. Rebuild started 2011. YES completely from scratch so the normal 5 years not enough but its 7 now should be finals side and with all positions filled with talent/50+ gamers theres no excuse.

So who replaces him?

The rebuild started in 2014 under Richardson.

Lyon and Watters were still trying to get to finals in their years.

We have been rebuilding for 4 years only.

That makes this season year 5.

The target has always been 2020 and beyond for premierships.

Thank you for making complete sense and putting across the facts.

I don't even know why are talking about this anyway.

Some people will believe anything. BFUSA, saying the rebuild is in its fifth years is just plain wrong. According to your reckoning, we started rebuilding, a year after we got Jack Billings, Blake Acres and Luke Dunstan who were all part of our publicly stated rebuild. It started in 2012. Stop distorting history to suit your own views and leading the gullible up the garden path. BTW our publicly stated aim was to be in serious contention by 2018 and having won one BY 2020, not in that year specifically. The club has failed on a number of fronts in its strategic plans. I doubt we'll be in contention this year, we didn't land a big fish, we're hopelessly in debt and our list has more holes in it than a sieve. We allegedly copied Geelong's blueprint for success. The only difference is they have high quality, competent staff, which is reflected in the way they play and their successes over the past decade. Check the facts.

Billings, Acres and Dunstan were drafted at the end of 2013 for the 2014 season.

They were start of the rebuild.

This was the first season that Richardson coached.

They have played for 4 years.

Stop distorting the facts.

Even then you admit we've had 5 years of rebuilding. You can't even count, let alone distort the facts. Damning yourself with your own "facts" . The rebuild began after Watters first year when we realised it needed to be a complete renovation. We made a partial start when Elshyte started at the end of 2011. Remember pelican's famous spreadsheet, the map of the future? At least I have actual experience of what went on. You obviously have no clue about this one. PM me if you want the facts.

Prior to 2014 the club brought in mature talent to make us somewhat competitive rather than bring in lower end drafted kids (because all the top talent was going north) that would get smashed without any hard bodies around them and conceded that we needed to hit the bottom and trade to get multiple early draft picks to start the real rebuild with 3 picks in the top 20 picks in multiple years. That was the plan.

Even you stated that Billings, Acres and Dunstan were the real start of the rebuild.

They started in 2014.

2014 - year 1
2015 - year 2
2016 - year 3
2017 - year 4

We have not yet played a game in 2018 for Premiership points.

This is Year 5 in a 7 year plan.

The clubs talk 5 year plans because they know fans can’t wait and the current drafting / trading system does not allow faster rebuilds.

Geelong Hawthorn and Swans all benefitted from Gold Coast and GWS draft concession as it disallowed other teams to bring in talent to challenge.

Now this is STARTING to even out.

Geelong and Sydney still maintain strong home ground advantages.

Hawthorn still has Clarkson.

They are topping up big time to stay up the top.

This strategy was perfect for where they were.

We could have tried that but our decline started a few seasons before (2011/12) and we were positioned incorrectly at the free agency introduction with a full salary cap - unable to attract more talent and in fact having to lose some because we couldn’t match the $s.

I never said it started with Billings, Acres and Dunstan. It was your mistake I was pointing out by your suggestion it did in 2014. Those three were drafted in 2013. Fact. You don't start your rebuild during the season after. You start in the draft and trade period. I've also stated clearly in several threads that the rebuild started in 2012 (again at the draft and trade period where we were active according to Pelchen's plan and excel spreadsheet). So it began with the acquisition of Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Saunders and Murdoch. Looks a lot like the start of a rebuild to me. Correct that, I know it was the beginning. Get rid of a Goddard to improve your drafting position and give yourself more picks, which you use on kids and a couple of speculative ones who are still relatively young.

Watters realised after his first year that the list was cooked and that the renovation needed to begin. Please check facts before posting blatant mistakes. Even when pointed out and explained to you, you have persisted. So for the last time, the rebuild started in earnest in 2012. It is know 2018, so we have had six years of rebuilding. Apparently we still are, meaning this will be the seventh year of the rebuild. We have not advanced much, if at all in that time. We have missed out on picking players suitable to our needs on more occasions than I care to mention here. SMS has summed it up in another thread. Our trading has been reasonable and Sinclair and Marshall look the goods coming off the rookie list. When you compare our haul to the top teams it's actually embarrassing, given the strength of our drafting position in that time. It's why we are where we are. Mid to lower table and treading water.

2011 - end of season. Lyon leaves. Elshyte takes over from John Peake as recruiting manager.

2012 - drafted and traded for Hickey, Lee, Wright, White, Saunders and Murdoch. Brilliant start from the flathead despite having picks 12, 13, 24 & 25. Of that lot we have two left, neither of whom is in our best 22.

2013 - Billings, Dunstan and Acres. Drafted in 2013, not 2014.

2014 - paddy, McKenzie, Goddard. Two blokes who are one bad injury away from retirement and another who appears completely lost.

2015 - traded for Jake, got Gresh. The only true win for this recruiting lot so far.

2016 - Long, Battle and Phillips. It would be an understatement to say the future is unclear. IMO only Battle excites at this stage.

2017 - Coffield, Clark, Clavarino and Paton. The first three will make it. Not sure about Paton

So let's count those years again. Six of them. In the seventh now. Six preseasons to correct mistakes, develop,game styles, plans and players. Recruit players who fill requirements for the team's way of playing. I know you want to be positive about all this, but we should be doing better than what we've shown post 2016.

[Trump]

I agree with original post. Just so frustrating at the saints with coaching over a very long time. It was exciting under lyons becoz we could see a game style that worked. After lyons we had a search for new coach with panels and consultants etc etc and we still balls it up. Luke beveridge was right there, became a priemiership coach.. i think its the way of it at the saints.

[Drake Huggins]

And Incase posters didn’t click on CQSaints final link.......... the winner is BackfromUSA .
The Strategic Plan was delivered to members in March 2014. It aimed for finals in 2018 and our second flag by 2020.

IMHO, BFUSA usually does his research competently and rarely goes tit for tat with posters unless he knows he’s spot on.
Just my view, for what it’s worth. So I guess Saints are still on track, only the end of the season will tell us so - if the are playing finals!

But the rebuild began at the 2012 draft and trade period.