JLT Match Thread Saints v Blues 2018

[shrodes]

[spert]

Just a practice match, but the team was poorly prepared and Richo was outcoached tactically (the norm)- thank goodness Clark and Coffield showed excellent signs. We can't just rely on Steven to have a purple patch to get us back into games.

[bigcarl]

Conditions were tough, as he says. Played golf in it yesterday and it was a strong, gusty wind. As he says, Carlton handled the conditions a lot better.

Frustrating to lose convincingly when we had 10 more forward 50 entries than them

[CarlD]

Am thinking the coach was trying to lull us into a false sense of insecurity - seems to have worked.

Too many words sprang to mind with an "out" prefix:

- thought
- enthused
- ran
- played, etc

The Saints got themselves back into the game in the 3rd quarter and then fired blanks with the breeze in the last - very disappointing.

The kids showed some promise thankfully and one can only hope that the next match is far better.

[Zed]

Watched the replay. Same old St Kilda as last year.
I could not see anything to suggest our team has improved. We got bullied by a young Carlton list. They had speed we still look like a team of plodders.
Their talls back and forward looked far more effective than ours - and they were missing Weitering who is a very good player.
Our backline is stacked with b graders - with the exception of Carlisle. I’m hoping Robbo at least proves me wrong.
We need to play Membrey as a 3rd tall in the Gunston role not as a key target. Forward setup last night was ineffective. This is going to stir a few people up but Paddy is worst #1 pick since Jack Watts. Fits in well with our team of b graders
On the bright side , the 2 new boys looked good and Clark in particular made some good decisions. Unfortunately we’ve seen this before - our recruits show a bit in year 1 then get stifled by the innefective St Kilda Development Program. Desperately need Jack Billings class at high half forward. 11 wins at best this year. Unless there is a radical change , We are well and truely stuck in no mans land - another ladder finish a couple of wins outside the 8 beckons.

[Con Gorozidis]

Docherty (season)
Petrevski-Seton
Weitering

All missing from that side.

[Darth Vader]

Same old same old. Wake me up in 2021.

[samoht]

Our problem is our vanilla midfield, more so than our (supposed) vanilla coach.

Dal Santo made the comment that we have a lot of “inside” midfielders, but only one with a real point of difference, and some leg speed - Steven.
Our recruiters have overloaded us with inside midfielders. That’s our problem in a nutshell.

No coach can turn an overwhelmingly inside midfield into something that works - you can’t complement an inside midfielder with yet another inside midfielder. It doesn’t work that way - but our astute recruiters think otherwise.

[saynta]

Free kick count would be extraordinary. I am not sure what the official count would be but on my reckoning at least around 10aainst us to our to 1 or 2 .

Following the pattern of the past few years. We seem to give away a lot more than we get. Same old same old.

I used to think it was the umpires' fault. I am beginning to think it is actually the way we play. If you play dumb reactive footy and the other team are first to the ball they are going to win the free kicks.

Also; we need our ruckman to be competitive. Not just at the throw ins but around the ground. Time to give Hickey another go. Getting smashed in the midfield, and Kreuzer is having a field day.

Don't know about that. A full headlock on a saints player goes unnoticed yet a slight push in the back gets rewarded as long as the player being pushed is not a saint.

How does Pddy not get a free from a full wack on the nose from a swinging arm drapped over his shoulder?

I think the maggots grew up as blues supporters.

[saynta]

Another goal from a free. Umpire misses McCartin getting belted in the nose pays soft frees there end.

Yep and yep.

[Darth Vader]

Another goal from a free. Umpire misses McCartin getting belted in the nose pays soft frees there end.

Yep and yep.

Yeah I just don’t get it. The stats show we get shafted year after year. Surely this needs to be addressed?

[saynta]

From the hun;



CARLTON came out of the blocks firing and held off St Kilda in Wednesday night’s JLT Series clash at Ikon Park.

And there was plenty of SuperCoach talent on display.

While the big names racked up their usual decent scores, SuperCoaches were equally keen to see how both teams’ potential cash cows fared.



No.3 draft pick Paddy Dow might have stolen the headlines from the Blues’ win but young Saint Hunter Clark showed he’s well worth watching before locking in teams for 2018.



CARLTON

Patrick Cripps 120

Matthew Kreuzer 119

Caleb Marchbank 111

Liam Jones94

Marc Murphy 85

Ed Curnow 83

Ciaran Byrne 76

Kade Simpson 74

Matthew Wright 73

Lachie Plowman 69

Charlie Curnow 68

Dale Thomas 68

Paddy Dow 66

Jack Silvagni 62

Matthew Kennedy 62

Zac Fisher 59

Aaron Mullett 57

Levi Casboult 52

David Cuningham 51

Jed Lamb 49

Jarrod Garlett 41

Harry McKay 40

Lochie O’Brien 29

Jarrod Pickett 20


ST KILDA

Shane Savage 145

David Armitage 129

Jack Steven 125

Paddy McCartin 91

Jade Gresham 86

Luke Dunstan 86

Jack Lonie 85

Hunter Clark 83

Sebastian Ross 79

Tim Membrey 77

Billy Longer 74

Jack Newnes 71

Jimmy Webster 71

Nick Coffield 63

Jack Steele 56

Blake Acres 54

Jack Sinclair 49

Jarryn Geary 49

Jake Carlisle 47

Nathan J. Brown 39

Ben Long 36

Dylan Roberton 28

Maverick Weller 17

Sam Gilbert 16

Rowan Marshall 12

Nathan Wright 6

[tony74]

Players recovered pretty well. A few bruises and aches but can be expected after the first hit out. Coaches were pretty annoyed and disappointed but it’s important to stress they weren’t worried. They were really difficult conditions and obviously we butchered the ball going inside 50. Also it’s worth noting that we tried to play our game the whole time whilst Carlton put players back when we had control. They played to win, we played as in a practice match and to try different things. In the real season the tactics would have been different. You’ll see a different match on Thursday as I’m sure No one will try to close the game down.
Have faith Sainters.

[Gershwin]

Players recovered pretty well. A few bruises and aches but can be expected after the first hit out. Coaches were pretty annoyed and disappointed but it’s important to stress they weren’t worried. They were really difficult conditions and obviously we butchered the ball going inside 50. Also it’s worth noting that we tried to play our game the whole time whilst Carlton put players back when we had control. They played to win, we played as in a practice match and to try different things. In the real season the tactics would have been different. You’ll see a different match on Thursday as I’m sure No one will try to close the game down.
Have faith Sainters.

Thanks tony74. Important that Armo pulls up OK.

[Sainter_Dad]

Thanks tony74. Important that Armo pulls up OK.

And washes that eye makeup off!!! (Was it friendly fire??)

[Linton Lodger]

Players recovered pretty well. A few bruises and aches but can be expected after the first hit out. Coaches were pretty annoyed and disappointed but it’s important to stress they weren’t worried. They were really difficult conditions and obviously we butchered the ball going inside 50. Also it’s worth noting that we tried to play our game the whole time whilst Carlton put players back when we had control. They played to win, we played as in a practice match and to try different things. In the real season the tactics would have been different. You’ll see a different match on Thursday as I’m sure No one will try to close the game down.
Have faith Sainters.

Pretty much exactly what I observed Tony. Carlton know internally that they are not Finals contenders and are going for early wins to enthuse members.

[Linton Lodger]

All you negative nancies remember this - we were missing one of the best players in the AFL - Mr Jack Billings. He’ll be dynamite this year running along side Stuv who can finally run again. Add to that the brute mongrel force of Armo when he’s match conditioned and the midfield becomes serious. And I haven’t even factored in Ross.

It’s all good children.

The negative nancies should also cast their mind back to our pre season in 2009

To refresh memories, we lost to Brisbane in our first match and failed to score in the second half. Then in our Final match, Port Adelaide (who would win 9 games that season) touched us up by 80 odd points. After that, we won our first 20.

Practice match form/results are completely irrelevant, participating teams have different objectives and are at variable levels of conditioning.

By the way, I seem to recall that Collingwood's form last pre season was sensational, even getting them touted as Premiership fancies. Aah the folly of attaching any weight to preseason results. I won't even bother talking about Sydney's pre season record under Paul Roos.

[degruch]

LOL...never pictured Saynta as a SuperCoach fan! Good scores...better get Cripps in your team.

[Con Gorozidis]

All you negative nancies remember this - we were missing one of the best players in the AFL - Mr Jack Billings. He’ll be dynamite this year running along side Stuv who can finally run again. Add to that the brute mongrel force of Armo when he’s match conditioned and the midfield becomes serious. And I haven’t even factored in Ross.

It’s all good children.

The negative nancies should also cast their mind back to our pre season in 2009

To refresh memories, we lost to Brisbane in our first match and failed to score in the second half. Then in our Final match, Port Adelaide (who would win 9 games that season) touched us up by 80 odd points. After that, we won our first 20.

Practice match form/results are completely irrelevant, participating teams have different objectives and are at variable levels of conditioning.

By the way, I seem to recall that Collingwood's form last pre season was sensational, even getting them touted as Premiership fancies. Aah the folly of attaching any weight to preseason results. I won't even bother talking about Sydney's pre season record under Paul Roos.

Then
We finished 4th in 2008.
We had 12 AA on our list.
Lyon used to tank pre season back then.

Now
We finished 11th in 2017.
No AA players on list.
We're trying our guts out.

[Linton Lodger]

All you negative nancies remember this - we were missing one of the best players in the AFL - Mr Jack Billings. He’ll be dynamite this year running along side Stuv who can finally run again. Add to that the brute mongrel force of Armo when he’s match conditioned and the midfield becomes serious. And I haven’t even factored in Ross.

It’s all good children.

The negative nancies should also cast their mind back to our pre season in 2009

To refresh memories, we lost to Brisbane in our first match and failed to score in the second half. Then in our Final match, Port Adelaide (who would win 9 games that season) touched us up by 80 odd points. After that, we won our first 20.

Practice match form/results are completely irrelevant, participating teams have different objectives and are at variable levels of conditioning.

By the way, I seem to recall that Collingwood's form last pre season was sensational, even getting them touted as Premiership fancies. Aah the folly of attaching any weight to preseason results. I won't even bother talking about Sydney's pre season record under Paul Roos.

Then
We finished 4th in 2008.
We had 12 AA on our list.
Lyon used to tank pre season back then.

Now
We finished 11th in 2017.
No AA players on list.
We're trying our guts out.

What precisely is your point?

We won the pre season comp in 2008 and made the Final in 2010. So did that accidently happen when we intended to tank?

When we finished 4th in 2008 (with 13 wins), we were further behind the top 2 (Hawthorn & Geelong) than we are now.

Whether or not players are AA is subjective. We may have had 12 AAs in 2008, but we also had anywhere up to six players in our best 22 that wouldn't have got a game at many other Clubs and we were light on depth.

Why would we bother to counter Carlton's defensive tactics in a Practice game? The point of the games is conditioning and practicing certain things.

"Trying our guts out" don't know who said that, but get serious! We only occasionally got out of second gear and our defensive pressure was, shall we say relaxed. It was what it was, a glorified training run.

[Con Gorozidis]

All you negative nancies remember this - we were missing one of the best players in the AFL - Mr Jack Billings. He’ll be dynamite this year running along side Stuv who can finally run again. Add to that the brute mongrel force of Armo when he’s match conditioned and the midfield becomes serious. And I haven’t even factored in Ross.

It’s all good children.

The negative nancies should also cast their mind back to our pre season in 2009

To refresh memories, we lost to Brisbane in our first match and failed to score in the second half. Then in our Final match, Port Adelaide (who would win 9 games that season) touched us up by 80 odd points. After that, we won our first 20.

Practice match form/results are completely irrelevant, participating teams have different objectives and are at variable levels of conditioning.

By the way, I seem to recall that Collingwood's form last pre season was sensational, even getting them touted as Premiership fancies. Aah the folly of attaching any weight to preseason results. I won't even bother talking about Sydney's pre season record under Paul Roos.

Then
We finished 4th in 2008.
We had 12 AA on our list.
Lyon used to tank pre season back then.

Now
We finished 11th in 2017.
No AA players on list.
We're trying our guts out.

What precisely is your point?

We won the pre season comp in 2008 and made the Final in 2010. So did that accidently happen when we intended to tank?

When we finished 4th in 2008 (with 13 wins), we were further behind the top 2 (Hawthorn & Geelong) than we are now.

Whether or not players are AA is subjective. We may have had 12 AAs in 2008, but we also had anywhere up to six players in our best 22 that wouldn't have got a game at many other Clubs and we were light on depth.

Why would we bother to counter Carlton's defensive tactics in a Practice game? The point of the games is conditioning and practicing certain things.

"Trying our guts out" don't know who said that, but get serious! We only occasionally got out of second gear and our defensive pressure was, shall we say relaxed. It was what it was, a glorified training run.

You think we are just taking it easy in Feb with our mind on a top 4 in deep September?
Delusional.
We lost to Carlton because we just aren't very good and our current list isn't that good.
Same reason we ended 2017 in 11th spot.
How is AA 'subjective'? It is entirely objective.
It is an actual thing written on paper.
It is a fact that back then we had 12 actual AA players on our list.
Currently we have zero.
It couldn't be more objective.

[saynta]

Players recovered pretty well. A few bruises and aches but can be expected after the first hit out. Coaches were pretty annoyed and disappointed but it’s important to stress they weren’t worried. They were really difficult conditions and obviously we butchered the ball going inside 50. Also it’s worth noting that we tried to play our game the whole time whilst Carlton put players back when we had control. They played to win, we played as in a practice match and to try different things. In the real season the tactics would have been different. You’ll see a different match on Thursday as I’m sure No one will try to close the game down.
Have faith Sainters.

Thanks for the info mate.

[iwantmeseats]

I tried to look for something different to last year.
I failed.
No finals this year.
Yeah it’s one practice game but the holes are too obvious.

[Linton Lodger]

All you negative nancies remember this - we were missing one of the best players in the AFL - Mr Jack Billings. He’ll be dynamite this year running along side Stuv who can finally run again. Add to that the brute mongrel force of Armo when he’s match conditioned and the midfield becomes serious. And I haven’t even factored in Ross.

It’s all good children.

The negative nancies should also cast their mind back to our pre season in 2009

To refresh memories, we lost to Brisbane in our first match and failed to score in the second half. Then in our Final match, Port Adelaide (who would win 9 games that season) touched us up by 80 odd points. After that, we won our first 20.

Practice match form/results are completely irrelevant, participating teams have different objectives and are at variable levels of conditioning.

By the way, I seem to recall that Collingwood's form last pre season was sensational, even getting them touted as Premiership fancies. Aah the folly of attaching any weight to preseason results. I won't even bother talking about Sydney's pre season record under Paul Roos.

Then
We finished 4th in 2008.
We had 12 AA on our list.
Lyon used to tank pre season back then.

Now
We finished 11th in 2017.
No AA players on list.
We're trying our guts out.

What precisely is your point?

We won the pre season comp in 2008 and made the Final in 2010. So did that accidently happen when we intended to tank?

When we finished 4th in 2008 (with 13 wins), we were further behind the top 2 (Hawthorn & Geelong) than we are now.

Whether or not players are AA is subjective. We may have had 12 AAs in 2008, but we also had anywhere up to six players in our best 22 that wouldn't have got a game at many other Clubs and we were light on depth.

Why would we bother to counter Carlton's defensive tactics in a Practice game? The point of the games is conditioning and practicing certain things.

"Trying our guts out" don't know who said that, but get serious! We only occasionally got out of second gear and our defensive pressure was, shall we say relaxed. It was what it was, a glorified training run.

You think we are just taking it easy in Feb with our mind on a top 4 in deep September?
Delusional.
We lost to Carlton because we just aren't very good and our current list isn't that good.
Same reason we ended 2017 in 11th spot.
How is AA 'subjective'? It is entirely objective.
It is an actual thing written on paper.
It is a fact that back then we had 12 actual AA players on our list.
Currently we have zero.
It couldn't be more objective.

Delusional? Teams are generally conditioned for a season and to peak at about Finals time. That's why you get training loads increased about mid season, then a tapering off. It's got nothing to do with taking it easy.

Many teams in development that know they won't be playing Finals and needing to sell memberships and give their supporters something, will prepare the teams to be at optimum early in the season or pre season so they can steal a few wins. They will also play pre season games to win, rather than practice. As Carlton did last night.

Denis Pagan admitted he did this in his tenure at Carlton. Didn't they win back to back pre season comps in seasons of back to back wooden spoons? How do you reckon that happened? Pagan admitted that they prepared their team to win the pre season comp and sell Memberships in seasons they expected to struggle to be competitive.

Why do you reckon Boulton was dropping extra men back in a February practice game?

AA an objective notion? Look up objective in the dictionary. A panel of people select the AA based on their subjective opinions, opinions whether spoken, written down or carved in stone are subjective. Richmond, the Premiers only had 2 AAs last year. One of them Rance, a really good key defender, but not a patch on big Jake Carlisle. Would you bet against Carlisle, Billings, Steven, Roberton or Ross making AA this year? You'd be brave (or foolish) with your money if you did.

[spert]

Players recovered pretty well. A few bruises and aches but can be expected after the first hit out. Coaches were pretty annoyed and disappointed but it’s important to stress they weren’t worried. They were really difficult conditions and obviously we butchered the ball going inside 50. Also it’s worth noting that we tried to play our game the whole time whilst Carlton put players back when we had control. They played to win, we played as in a practice match and to try different things. In the real season the tactics would have been different. You’ll see a different match on Thursday as I’m sure No one will try to close the game down.
Have faith Sainters.

Thanks for the info mate.

Looking forward to the "tactics" for a real game that tony74 is mentioning- looked to me last night that we played exactly like the Saints of 2017 when losing games...nothing out of the ordinary or different last night.