Our Draft Summary

[Toy Saint]

Perhaps I'm an optimist, Logan Austin may just be as good as Jake Carslile in a year or two and he could play every game next year.

We didn't lose a single player, Acres didn't go back to Perth and Dunstan didn't go back to Adelaide.

We were keen to land a class midfielder, but missed on Kelly & Dusty. Our recuriters held their nerve and didn't go after recycled players for the sake of it.

I would've been unhappy if we got Ablett or Stringer. Jack Watts? Possibly.....errrr..

We have pick 7 & 8, and should get a couple of very decent kids, and we may even get lucky with pick 34.

Joey and Dempster have gone, but neither added much to our 2017 performance. We'll miss Roo, but even the great man didn't make a huge contribution this year. Our list is young and there is natural improvement, perhaps we could win an extra 2 or 3 games. That will take us to the finals.

Go saints

[Saintly Passion]

Too much doom and gloom here. People need to have realistic expectations I reckon.

1. We didn't get mature elite mid - very disappointing yes. But tell me one who actually changed clubs??? Money and picks saved and still there for 2018

2. Tomlinson wanted to come home. This was reported a few times and acknowledged by the Club. Giants didn't end up trading him - disappointing, but wrapt the Club didn't do a Gold Coast and trade one of 7 or 8 to force their hand

3. Picks 7 & 8 in hand in a strong midfielders draft. As the Club website said today first time we've had 2 x top 10 picks in 16 years and can add 2 x elite young mids

4. Traded in key defensive back up that is young and for a cheap price

5. Did a pick swap to come back into the 2nd round this year. Picks 59 & 63 appear to be worthless to us as we wouldn't have used them anyway given list spots! Concern is no 2018 2nd round pick, but we've gone into 2016 and 2017 with the same issue and filled those gaps - last year got the picks from Hawthorn, this year Port. Why can't we do it again next year?

6. Agree our near ladder opponents brought in mature talent, so a bit rests on improvement from within, but as this year showed we should have faith. Ross winning B&F and Billings, Webster, Gresham, Carlisle being in top 4-9 a good sign of what's possible. Riewoldt / Montagna not in top 10 so let's not overestimate the world caving in with their departures...

Peace out

[fugazi]

Look on the bright side. We didn't trade any of our much loved players unlike, the Dees ,Carscum , Doggies and a couple of other sides.

Whilst I don't have any bulldog mates and never intend to, my Carlton and Melbourne mates are devastated.

Hehehehe

True

[fugazi]

Look on the bright side. We didn't trade any of our much loved players unlike, the Dees ,Carscum , Doggies and a couple of other sides.

Whilst I don't have any bulldog mates and never intend to, my Carlton and Melbourne mates are devastated.

Hehehehe

True, also we didn't cough up our top draft picks for just anything.

[saintsRrising]

Money and picks saved and still there for 2018

1/ How have we saved picks for 2018 (or did you mean the picks we kept for this years draft?)

2/ As for money. You can only bank the unused TPP for a maximum of 2 years. We were already at that as the expectation was to land a big target this year. So the TPP saved from 2 years back will not be available for 2018.


I agree it is not all gloom and doom. There are many positives.

However my point was the public comments from the club on how they are going about things, including on being aggressive in trade week, do not match the reality of our situation.

Too much faith had been placed in $$$ alone being an attractant. Plus reading between the lines on who our targets were the Saints completely misread other clubs willingness to let contracted players go (ie Gaff, Tomlinson, Haynes).

Kelly was always going to be difficult as so many clubs would have been chasing him and GWS would have been desperate to keep him. So I can understand not landing him. But not being able to engineer at least one needed second tier (but good) player, when the club had flagged very much that this was the plan, means to me that we underachieved in this draft/trade period.

Our list management team echoed our playing list this year. Lots of shots on goal, but they kept missing kicking the goal.

[bigred]

Austin could be a player. Absolutely. Nothing really wrong with that trade.

Happy with the early picks we have.

All us well.

[saynta]

Money and picks saved and still there for 2018

1/ How have we saved picks for 2018 (or did you mean the picks we kept for this years draft?)

2/ As for money. You can only bank the unused TPP for a maximum of 2 years. We were already at that as the expectation was to land a big target this year. So the TPP saved from 2 years back will not be available for 2018.


I agree it is not all gloom and doom. There are many positives.

However my point was the public comments from the club on how they are going about things, including on being aggressive in trade week, do not match the reality of our situation.

Too much faith had been placed in $$$ alone being an attractant. Plus reading between the lines on who our targets were the Saints completely misread other clubs willingness to let contracted players go (ie Gaff, Tomlinson, Haynes).

Kelly was always going to be difficult as so many clubs would have been chasing him and GWS would have been desperate to keep him. So I can understand not landing him. But not being able to engineer at least one needed second tier (but good) player, when the club had flagged very much that this was the plan, means to me that we underachieved in this draft/trade period.

Our list management team echoed our playing list this year. Lots of shots on goal, but they kept missing kicking the goal.

Show me where we were ever interested in Haynes.

Sure we made some effort to get Tomlinson, but it was always an unrealistic half hearted attempt because we weren't offering a high draft pick.

I think we only ever made enquiries about Gaff and never put an offer on the table.

Maybe those efforts weren't fair dinkum and were made just to appease the malcontents who thought the saints were sitting on their hands doing nothing,

Wait until next year.

[Jacks Back]

We've got some good picks in this year's shallow draft however we have no 2nd round or 3rd round picks next year in a very strong draft. How do we get into those rounds (at least 2nd round) next year without trading players?

[ss1986]

Spot on saintsRrising.

I would call it an unmitigated disaster if Paddy doesn't have a break out year and Bruce continues to flounder.

Don't forget, those boys won't have the luxury of Roo taking good players off them so it will be a more difficult year opposition wise; and we completely failed to replace Roo with someone who would at least attract SOME attention away from those blokes.

I absolutely cannot see how this is a good result any way you choose to slice and dice it.

Seems alright to me. there wasn't anything on offer that would improve our list imho.

Surely you jest? Stringer, Saad, Smith, Motlop, Watts, hell even bloody Lobbe would be an improvement to our list. And if you dont think they'd get a game, I fear you severely overrate our list.

[Beno88]

Have we changed our club name to Hawthorn ???

We seem to have traded our 2018 second round pick (27 if we stay static in 2018) for 2017 pick 34.
We have to jump to 4th on the ladder for that to balance.
But then we threw in picks 59 and 63 as steak knives as well.
A bonus of 261 point to Port Adelaide.
We have valued our 2nd round pick for 2018 at pick 49 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
How does this make sense ?

What is going on ?
Do we seriously think we are going to win the 2018 premiership and so devalue our 2018 2nd rounder ?
But even that does not balance.

OR is 2017 a total draft disaster and 2018 a super draft ?
Is pick 34 this year really worth pick 49 in 2018 ?

The reason we traded away 2018 Second Round, 59 and 63 together is that we needed to make pick 63 useful as we would not have used it in the draft. 59 & 63 alone wouldn't have netted us anything, but along with a future second rounder you've got a deal. Therefore we have immediate access to a second round player in a draft that's a known quantity. Next year is speculative at this stage and given we traded in two 2018 fourth round picks, we can try the same trick again with potentially more player trade currency. You'd rather bank on the certainty of the 2017 draft than future guessing for 2018.

[degruch]

Spot on saintsRrising.

I would call it an unmitigated disaster if Paddy doesn't have a break out year and Bruce continues to flounder.

Don't forget, those boys won't have the luxury of Roo taking good players off them so it will be a more difficult year opposition wise; and we completely failed to replace Roo with someone who would at least attract SOME attention away from those blokes.

I absolutely cannot see how this is a good result any way you choose to slice and dice it.

Seems alright to me. there wasn't anything on offer that would improve our list imho.

Surely you jest? Stringer, Saad, Smith, Motlop, Watts, hell even bloody Lobbe would be an improvement to our list. And if you dont think they'd get a game, I fear you severely overrate our list.

Apart from Motlop X factor (if he turns up), we've got all those positions covered, I thought Smith might be worth a crack as a mid, but unproven. I thought Hartung, Balic or even Wigg might have been worth a crack, but not for the pics we had. Isn't it good news that none of our players wanted out?

We got canned on the AFL website for our trade period, but only because we didn't rise to the expectation of landing a 'big fish', and the ones we wanted weren't available. As for those raised during the trade period, we've dealt with WC before and would have had to give up half the team for Gaff whilst contracted, no-one even mentioned Haynes (who I assume was confused for Tomlinson), Tomlinson couldn't be shifted by us or the Pies, and...was there anyone else? Otherwise, we added backline depth with a player that could possibly even become a regular, and consolidated pics, so job done to the best of our abilities.

Now they're talking up 2018 FA period, which it seems we're in pretty good shape for.

[saynta]

we were not canned by this guy. Rated a B in fact.


ST KILDA

IN: Logan Austin, pick 34, Adelaide 2018 fourth-round (via Port Adelaide), Port Adelaide 2018 fourth-round

OUT: Pick 59, pick 63, 2018 second-round pick, 2018 third-round

DRAFT PICKS: 7, 8, 34, 45, 100

GARY BUCKENARA SAYS: Another team that wasn’t too active, the Saints head to the draft armed with two top-10 picks which will get them a couple of really good players. But, there’s no doubt St Kilda would have thought when the club secured Hawthorn’s first-round pick last year, which became pick No.7, the club would have been able to secure an A-grade star. That didn’t happen, missing out on Dustin Martin, Josh Kelly, Nat Fyfe and even Devon Smith. What does get a tick from me is not trading either of those picks for the sake of it. That was a good strategy and is why I rate their trade period a B.

GRADE: B

[degruch]

That's about where I put us, for the same reasons. Buckenara is normally a pretty astute commentator too, from what I've read...at least he's not purely a media hack like most of the guys on afl.com.au

[saintsRrising]

Maybe those efforts weren't fair dinkum and were made just to appease the malcontents who thought the saints were sitting on their hands doing nothing,

.

So all the announcements from the club including the strategic plan since 2014 to land good players from other clubs now was all marketing ploy to appease malcontents?

????? Comical stuff.



Clearly too you thought that Richo's comment on being aggressive in trade week was a comment on his interactions, rather than a comment on trading. My mistake. I actually thought he was speaking about trading.

Our CEO and Bains on the radio a number of times this year and last talking on list management again were just all bullshitting to appease the malcontents".

Thanks for your quote from Bucks. Clearly he is part of the Saints agenda to appease the masses with the supposed myth that we were chasing a gun.

GARY BUCKENARA SAYS: Another team that wasn’t too active, the Saints head to the draft armed with two top-10 picks which will get them a couple of really good players. But, there’s no doubt St Kilda would have thought when the club secured Hawthorn’s first-round pick last year, which became pick No.7, the club would have been able to secure an A-grade star. That didn’t happen, missing out on Dustin Martin, Josh Kelly, Nat Fyfe and even Devon Smith. What does get a tick from me is not trading either of those picks for the sake of it. That was a good strategy and is why I rate their trade period a B.

I fully appreciate that our club and any club will always put a positive spin on things. But to try and paint it never had the intent it did is just head in the sand stuff.


This is not MY plan, but the clubs declared plan. My point is that the club needs to reset and amend their plan as key part of it was way too optimistic on gaining guns for $$$.. This hope that Guns from other clubs will save us is fundamentally flawed. Yes it COULD happen, but is unlikely to

As was the myth of being a destination club. That will not happen till we look like being a genuine GF threat.

We have done many things well (ie picking up players from other clubs who were underutilised) , and IMO the club needs to:
- concentrate on those
- to improve its talent identification process (We only go ok and tend to do better from players traded in that drafted in. If we want to be a Top 4 team we need to draft better)
- to improve the development of our younger players
- to improve how Sandi functions (I think one need is a core of really good VFL players to complement all our young developing players)
- inject some new coaching (which with Playfair they look to have done)
- great emphasis on goalkicking (which after a token effort this season they again seem to have done with a new appointment
- Richo to refine his gameplan so that we are less exposed to teams on the fast break and kicking ie over the back.


Personally I think that we have an excellent platform to go forward with. But that the plan was too reliant on gaining guns via FA/Trade, and this needs to be reset.

[saynta]

Maybe those efforts weren't fair dinkum and were made just to appease the malcontents who thought the saints were sitting on their hands doing nothing,

.

So all the announcements from the club including the strategic plan since 2014 to land good players from other clubs now was all marketing ploy to appease malcontents?

????? Comical stuff.



Clearly too you thought that Richo's comment on being aggressive in trade week was a comment on his interactions, rather than a comment on trading. My mistake. I actually thought he was speaking about trading.

Our CEO and Bains on the radio a number of times this year and last talking on list management again were just all bullshitting to appease the malcontents".

Thanks for your quote from Bucks. Clearly he is part of the Saints agenda to appease the masses with the supposed myth that we were chasing a gun.

GARY BUCKENARA SAYS: Another team that wasn’t too active, the Saints head to the draft armed with two top-10 picks which will get them a couple of really good players. But, there’s no doubt St Kilda would have thought when the club secured Hawthorn’s first-round pick last year, which became pick No.7, the club would have been able to secure an A-grade star. That didn’t happen, missing out on Dustin Martin, Josh Kelly, Nat Fyfe and even Devon Smith. What does get a tick from me is not trading either of those picks for the sake of it. That was a good strategy and is why I rate their trade period a B.

I fully appreciate that our club and any club will always put a positive spin on things. But to try and paint it never had the intent it did is just head in the sand stuff.

.

What would you post if you were actually trying to be abusive?

I'm actually sorry I wasted some of my time reading that. I wasn't going to.

I have always liked your posts but recently you have been more negative than positive.

[Saintly Passion]

Maybe those efforts weren't fair dinkum and were made just to appease the malcontents who thought the saints were sitting on their hands doing nothing,

.

So all the announcements from the club including the strategic plan since 2014 to land good players from other clubs now was all marketing ploy to appease malcontents?

????? Comical stuff.



Clearly too you thought that Richo's comment on being aggressive in trade week was a comment on his interactions, rather than a comment on trading. My mistake. I actually thought he was speaking about trading.

Our CEO and Bains on the radio a number of times this year and last talking on list management again were just all bullshitting to appease the malcontents".

Thanks for your quote from Bucks. Clearly he is part of the Saints agenda to appease the masses with the supposed myth that we were chasing a gun.

GARY BUCKENARA SAYS: Another team that wasn’t too active, the Saints head to the draft armed with two top-10 picks which will get them a couple of really good players. But, there’s no doubt St Kilda would have thought when the club secured Hawthorn’s first-round pick last year, which became pick No.7, the club would have been able to secure an A-grade star. That didn’t happen, missing out on Dustin Martin, Josh Kelly, Nat Fyfe and even Devon Smith. What does get a tick from me is not trading either of those picks for the sake of it. That was a good strategy and is why I rate their trade period a B.

I fully appreciate that our club and any club will always put a positive spin on things. But to try and paint it never had the intent it did is just head in the sand stuff.


This is not MY plan, but the clubs declared plan. My point is that the club needs to reset and amend their plan as key part of it was way too optimistic on gaining guns for $$$.. This hope that Guns from other clubs will save us is fundamentally flawed. Yes it COULD happen, but is unlikely to

As was the myth of being a destination club. That will not happen till we look like being a genuine GF threat.

We have done many things well (ie picking up players from other clubs who were underutilised) , and IMO the club needs to:
- concentrate on those
- to improve its talent identification process (We only go ok and tend to do better from players traded in that drafted in. If we want to be a Top 4 team we need to draft better)
- to improve the development of our younger players
- to improve how Sandi functions (I think one need is a core of really good VFL players to complement all our young developing players)
- inject some new coaching (which with Playfair they look to have done)
- great emphasis on goalkicking (which after a token effort this season they again seem to have done with a new appointment
- Richo to refine his gameplan so that we are less exposed to teams on the fast break and kicking ie over the back.


Personally I think that we have an excellent platform to go forward with. But that the plan was too reliant on gaining guns via FA/Trade, and this needs to be reset.

While challenging your OP, I tend to agree with most of what you've stated here saintsrising. The bit I keep thinking is over emphasised is this big fish theory - most of the key players in that 2014 vision are not at the Club and haven't been the ones driving it for the last 3+ years. No doubt we all would have loved an elite mature player but at the end of the day we bank our dollars and bring in 2 x elite kids - the AFL banking system is a rolling 3 year set up and there are ways of extending it (eg front end contracts / pre-payments) so we actually don't have to spend the money until we need too..

[saintsRrising]

The bit I keep thinking is over emphasised is this big fish theory - most of the key players in that 2014 vision are not at the Club and haven't been the ones driving it for the last 3+ years. No doubt we all would have loved an elite mature player but at the end of the day we bank our dollars and bring in 2 x elite kids - the AFL banking system is a rolling 3 year set up and there are ways of extending it (eg front end contracts / pre-payments) so we actually don't have to spend the money until we need too..

IMO when the plan was drafted they believed that many big fish would be swapping clubs via free agency and our plan was predicated on this.

The AFL actually thought at the time that FA was created that it would mean that bottom clubs would have more $$$$ for these star players and that star players would then choose the lower clubs based mainly on money. Clearly in drafting the plan the Saints thought likewise.

Whereas what has occurred is:

- Star players in the main do not join bottom clubs, and will actually prefer to go to clubs playing finals with a crack at the flag for less money than they could gain elsewhere
- Clubs have gotten cleverer in not letting very good players become FA. ie they keep them in contract

FA has been useful for teams like St Kilda in gaining players who where not gettinga good opportunity at their existing clubs, and in making it easier for players who want to "go home" (ie like Robbo).

Some think I am criticising the Club in my posts on this in which I have been pretty consistent all year on. Whereas what I am actually criticising is this part of the plan which to me is fundamentally flawed.

[Saintly Passion]

Some think I am criticising the Club in my posts on this in which I have been pretty consistent all year on. Whereas what I am actually criticising is this part of the plan which to me is fundamentally flawed.

That's fair enough. I think the makings of all the premiership teams have still been on the back of several drafts. Yes the Hawks added players once up and Geelong / Sydney have done the same in recent times (no flags since doing so) to remain challengers, but all the core success was through the draft.

While I share your disappointment on some levels, I still think it's all on track but next year becomes critical - the development from within, the calibre of picks 7 & 8 and what can be added come the end of the year

[Drake Huggins]

As Erwin Rommel, the great German General famously stated, "No plan survives contact." Plan B guys.