GT on Richmond flag win

[spert]

Honestly Grant Thomas is a f***** idiot. How about keeping your mouth shut for once.

Actually he's spot on, they've won a Premiership with a List that's nowhere near a Premiership List. Put Martin & Cotchin to one side and our List is better. They deserve credit for pulling it off, but it is what it is and shows how tight the competition has been this and last season.

They were garbage last year and without Martin would have been completely non competitive last year. The good news is that we're coming from a far better base than they did.

They have one thing that we don't, which is an out and out champion midfielder. I reckon it's Dusty's flag, though Rance and Cotchin are also terrific players.

Our list is more even than theirs imo and it wouldn't surprise me if we finished top four next season if things go right. Momentum and confidence go a long way.

They have 2 champion mids - Cotchin has won a brownlow as well and was brilliant this year. Prestia was recruited and paid them back on Saturday. He will be a very good player for them. Those 3 in the guts crap all over anything we have to offer at present.

They also have an extremely good fwd in Riewoldt (Our extremely good fwd just retired and was a far poorer version of himself in 2017) and the best backman in the league. We have Jake, which is a great start, but no-one at present holds a candle to Rance.

They have the key ingredients to a premiership team. They don't have a 2nd ruck (neither do we) except we pretend we do. We look far better when we put our Grigg version in there in the form of Gilbo.

The big difference is that Dimma has somehow unlocked the key to get the WHOLE team on board. So even blokes with very average ability played at their optimum. Cotchin was sensational this year and really should have been named captain of the year. His leadership was breathtaking really. Just copybook. Led the way as a captain should and the lesser lights jumped on board.

I highly doubt that after all the back slappingover summer that they will come back anything like the team that finished 2017 - who cares? They won a flag. Ideally I would want a dynasty, but right now I would take a flag pinched

No doubt Richmond assembled a more mature, smart group to support Hardwick, with mentoring from Balme. In our case, I have no doubt that Richo is floundering with the group he has had so far and really needs a couple of older, wiser heads in support and mentoring. Maybe a couple of ex coaches- dunno.. Ayres, Eade, GT?

[Joffa Burns]

Falling short by a goal with a bunch of 19-20 year old kids, one of which was carried off the ground in the first quarter (Goddard) - to a team that went on to smash the Brisbane Lions in the GF was an impressive effort.

Think GWS and how they were being smashed early on when they had 19 and 20 year old budding stars - they were bottom of the ladder.

Bahahahhahahahahah that's the biggest load of horse sh!t I have ever read in my life!
GT had an extremely seasoned and mature side in that PF, there was one teenager (Goddard) and the 20 YO's were guns in Maguire, Dal Santo & Ball.

The rest of the team were mature aged or coming into their prime years like AA Roo, not to mention Sammy was out injured.

Here is the team and their ages at that game on17.09.04, hardly a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds, but I guess the GT apologists have never been interested in fact!

Hayes 24
Powell 28
Harvey 34
Thompson 32
Ball 20
Reiwoldt 22
Black 25
Jones 28
Dalsanto 20
Peckett 32
Gehrig 28
Kossi 22
Blake 23
Voss 26
Baker 24
Penny 24
Hudgton 28
Maguire 20
Guerra 22
Goddard 19
Milne 24
Knobel 24

[samoht]

Knobel had zero possessions, Guerra had 1 or 2 possessions in that final - are you comparing them with GWS's quality draft picks, and also Goddard was injured in the first quarter.
We went down to a side (by only 1 goal) that won the GF in a canter - we only just lost to them on their home turf.

Footballers don't start to mature until after 23 - and our future stars were all under 23 (unless you're saying Voss, Baker, Powell, Knobel, Guerra and Blake were stars - and you're rating them alongside similarly aged GWS players).

Guerra eventually matured into a reasonable footballer - at age 25 or whatever he was - just like Lynch did a few years later (now playing reasonable football for the Crows).

[Joffa Burns]

Knobel had zero possessions, Guerra had 1 or 2 possessions in that final - are you comparing them with GWS's quality draft picks, and also Goddard was injured in the first quarter.
We went down to a side (by only 1 goal) that won the GF in a canter - we only just lost to them on their home turf.

Footballers don't start to mature until after 23 - and our future stars were all under 23 (unless you're saying Voss, Baker, Powell, Knobel, Guerra and Blake were stars - and you're rating them alongside similarly aged GWS players).

Guerra eventually matured into a reasonable footballer - at age 25 or whatever he was - just like Lynch did a few years later (now playing reasonable football for the Crows).

Those above comments are not relevant to what I wrote.

I wrote that your comments on GT's great effort with a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds was a crock of sh1t.
I backed that up with the actual age of the players playing on that night that proved what you wrote was fabricated or based on your perception but not fact. It was a very mature team.

Twist it anyway you choose, but GT did not have a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds in that match.
There was one 19yo who you point out got carried off early and three exceptional 20 year olds.

Dispute fact if you wish.

[Linton Lodger]

I reckon Geelong's 2009 side was 50% better than the Tigers' team on Saturday...

B: M. Rooke, M. Scarlett, T. Harley
B: N. Vlaustin, A. Rance, D. Grimes

HB: A. Mackie, H. Taylor, D. Milburn
HB: B. Houli, D. Astbury, K. Mcintosh

C: J. Kelly, C. Ling, C. Enright
C: D. Prestia, T. Cotchin, S. Grigg

HF: P. Chapman, C. Mooney, G. Ablett
HF: S. Edwards, J. Riewoldt, K. Lambert

F: S. Byrnes, T. Hawkins, S. Johnson
F: D. Rioli, J. Caddy, J. Graham

Foll: B. Ottens, J. Bartel, J. Selwood
Foll: T. Nankervis, D. Martin, B. Ellis

I/C: J. Kelly, J. Corey, D. Wojcinski, M. Blake
I/C: N. Broad, J. Townsend, J. Castagna. D. Butler

Our 2009 team would have thumped this Richmond team by ten goals, they reckon their pressure is hot!

[Con Gorozidis]

Interesting points raised.
I think we all agree the two expansion clubs have diluted talent across the competition.

[spert]

The best team on the day wins, sometimes regardless of form. Would we have expected to be 90 points up on Richmond when we played them? Did we expect to come out and play like a second-rate rabble the week later against Essendon? Grand Finals are about playing with passion and wanting the cup so bad that the weakest to the best player in the team plays well, as did Richmond. The Crows tried to just play arrogant flashy footy like they did at home games, and looking at the amount of times the Crows player with the ball got run down, it just showed they were not gut-running like Richmond were. Not unlike our effort in the 2010 replay.

[MickThomas]

Honestly Grant Thomas is a f***** idiot. How about keeping your mouth shut for once.

Actually he's spot on, they've won a Premiership with a List that's nowhere near a Premiership List. Put Martin & Cotchin to one side and our List is better. They deserve credit for pulling it off, but it is what it is ...<edited as it's the old TL; DR>

I highly doubt that after all the back slappingover summer that they will come back anything like the team that finished 2017 - who cares? They won a flag. Ideally I would want a dynasty, but right now I would take a flag pinched

No doubt Richmond assembled a more mature, smart group to support Hardwick, with mentoring from Balme. In our case, I have no doubt that Richo is floundering with the group he has had so far and really needs a couple of older, wiser heads in support and mentoring. Maybe a couple of ex coaches- dunno.. Ayres, Eade, GT?

Ben McGlynn has recently left Swines and is on our coaching panel as a new assistant. Backline or so I believe.
He did mentor the Swines forwards, so I would prefer he do that with us, esp since that waste of time Hamill has now become Zebs coach.

[skeptic]

Falling short by a goal with a bunch of 19-20 year old kids, one of which was carried off the ground in the first quarter (Goddard) - to a team that went on to smash the Brisbane Lions in the GF was an impressive effort.

Think GWS and how they were being smashed early on when they had 19 and 20 year old budding stars - they were bottom of the ladder.

Bahahahhahahahahah that's the biggest load of horse sh!t I have ever read in my life!
GT had an extremely seasoned and mature side in that PF, there was one teenager (Goddard) and the 20 YO's were guns in Maguire, Dal Santo & Ball.

The rest of the team were mature aged or coming into their prime years like AA Roo, not to mention Sammy was out injured.

Here is the team and their ages at that game on17.09.04, hardly a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds, but I guess the GT apologists have never been interested in fact!

Hayes 24
Powell 28
Harvey 34
Thompson 32
Ball 20
Reiwoldt 22
Black 25
Jones 28
Dalsanto 20
Peckett 32
Gehrig 28
Kossi 22
Blake 23
Voss 26
Baker 24
Penny 24
Hudgton 28
Maguire 20
Guerra 22
Goddard 19
Milne 24
Knobel 24

1/3 of that list is less than 4 seasons into their career, the majority under 3

[samoht]

I wrote that your comments on GT's great effort with a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds was a crock of sh1t.
I backed that up with the actual age of the players playing on that night that proved what you wrote was fabricated or based on your perception but not fact. It was a very mature team.

Twist it anyway you choose, but GT did not have a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds in that match.
There was one 19yo who you point out got carried off early and three exceptional 20 year olds.

Dispute fact if you wish.

GWS have surrounded their quality youngsters (high draft picks) with quality mature recruits (Shaw, Mumford, Griffen, etc) and were still being belted from pillar to post.
The experts were still saying it's too early for them - that their quality kids need years to mature.

Would Knobel, Baker, Blake, an out of form Guerra, Voss, etc... get a guernsey with GWS? Would they have been interested in recruiting these players?
We did remarkably well in 2004 in the final vs Port Adelaide - considering Goddard went down early, and Hamill was out injured.

[Joffa Burns]

I wrote that your comments on GT's great effort with a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds was a crock of sh1t.
I backed that up with the actual age of the players playing on that night that proved what you wrote was fabricated or based on your perception but not fact. It was a very mature team.

Twist it anyway you choose, but GT did not have a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds in that match.
There was one 19yo who you point out got carried off early and three exceptional 20 year olds.

Dispute fact if you wish.

GWS have surrounded their quality youngsters (high draft picks) with quality mature recruits (Shaw, Mumford, Griffen, etc) and were still being belted from pillar to post.
The experts were still saying it's too early for them - that their quality kids need years to mature.

Would Knobel, Baker, Blake, an out of form Guerra, Voss, etc... get a guernsey with GWS? Would they have been interested in recruiting these players?
We did remarkably well in 2004 in the final vs Port Adelaide - considering Goddard went down early, and Hamill was out injured.

Really Thomas, how is it relevant to speculate on whether Knobel would get a game with GWS?

The fact is you pumped up GT stating what a great performance for a team with a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds and you were factually incorrect, it was a very experienced team that lost that night.

You were intimating he took a bunch of kids who almost won against a dominant PA when the fact is it was a very experienced line up with a small number of highly talented high draft pick youngsters.

Just admit you were wrong and move on.

[samoht]

I was obviously (largely) referring to our young future stars - the 6 high draft picks; 6 potential A graders - that's what I call a "bunch" - the 6 or so who were going to help shape the so called "dynasty" that GT had spoken about, once they matured - that would hopefully set us up for a successful future. Knobel wasn't going to be one of them - I wasn't including him in that " bunch", or do I need to spell that out for you?
GWS also had an influx of mature quality recruits ... we're not just comparing their youngsters against our youngsters.
So when the experts were saying they weren't ready, that they were "too young" - they were obviously again largely referring to GWS's young potential stars.

The difference is GWS doesn't have a bottom 6 to stink it up for them, the way we did. There was nothing noble or A grade about Knobel's zero possessions and hit out to Wanganeen.
I can't imagine Knobel going around for GWS.

[satchmo]

GT

[The Fireman]

GT

what he said

[bigred]

I quite like GT.

But there are times I wish he would just f*** off back to the nail bed so he can have another veggie juice.

[Joffa Burns]

Falling short by a goal with a bunch of 19-20 year old kids, one of which was carried off the ground in the first quarter (Goddard) - to a team that went on to smash the Brisbane Lions in the GF was an impressive effort.

Think GWS and how they were being smashed early on when they had 19 and 20 year old budding stars - they were bottom of the ladder.

Bahahahhahahahahah that's the biggest load of horse sh!t I have ever read in my life!
GT had an extremely seasoned and mature side in that PF, there was one teenager (Goddard) and the 20 YO's were guns in Maguire, Dal Santo & Ball.

The rest of the team were mature aged or coming into their prime years like AA Roo, not to mention Sammy was out injured.

Here is the team and their ages at that game on17.09.04, hardly a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds, but I guess the GT apologists have never been interested in fact!

Hayes 24
Powell 28
Harvey 34
Thompson 32
Ball 20
Reiwoldt 22
Black 25
Jones 28
Dalsanto 20
Peckett 32
Gehrig 28
Kossi 22
Blake 23
Voss 26
Baker 24
Penny 24
Hudgton 28
Maguire 20
Guerra 22
Goddard 19
Milne 24
Knobel 24

1/3 of that list is less than 4 seasons into their career, the majority under 3

That team with an average age of 24 years and 348 days would not have been in the top ten youngest teams of all time to win a flag should they have gone on to win it in 04.
Without any checking I'd also guess the team would be high in games played per player in a premiership had they been successful.

GT took a highly experienced mature team into that final and was unsuccessful, that is fact.
You GT apologists can write whateve horse sh!t you want, but it was not a bunch of 19 & 20 year olds or an inexperienced team.

This morning I bought a bunch of grapes from my fruit shop for morning tea, they were listed as a bunch on the shelf, I counted 63 grapes.
The Bradys were a bunch, and there were nine of them including Anne B Davis as Alice.
GT did not go into that final with a bunch of 19 & 20 YO, fact!

And for poor old samoht and his Trent Knobel GWS reference, well I remind you that GT didn't rate ruckmen so he probably would have been very happy with Trent

Clutch at strats samoht, but you and I both know you tried to intimate GT did a miraculous job with a bunch of kids and it was just your GT hero worshipping opinion not factually based at all.
Keep going with the GSW reference, its about as relevant as old mashed potatoes and gravy himself tweeting his dial-a-quote quote references to stay in the public eye

[samoht]

Have it your way, Joffa.
I actually think that coaches are largely irrelevant and a nil all draw -- I was just taking the counter argument vs the GT detractors (whose agenda is to show how superior RL was/is). I certainly don't "hero worship" any of them.
Belittle one, belittle them all, I say. Go for it.
Have a look at the Richmond coach - everyone was baying for his blood - and now he's the talk of the town. Same coach - but throw in a Prestia and benefit from good recruiting and the natural development of a couple of players, all of a sudden he's a great coach. Or RL's 19-0 run with a strong team and his 0-10 start at Freo, in 2016 - same coach, slightly different circumstances. These are the cold, hard facts.
What is GWS's average age at the moment - while you're going to the trouble (just joking)?
Recruiters, players, luck and circumstances make the real difference. I'll leave the misplaced hero worshipping to others.

[asiu]

eeeek

whatever ya do , do not mention the GT

personally ... i loved him

got in and had a go
took on more than he should of 'n gave the Club back a bit of Chin Up Display

leaders lead ... the rest can bleat n bitch over their coffees , beers n march'n powder

st kilda fc ... turning natural talent into robots ,
with NO FLAG for THAT mistake

... DOH

imo , ooc , fwtw

[saintsRrising]

No doubt Richmond assembled a more mature, smart group to support Hardwick, with mentoring from Balme. In our case, I have no doubt that Richo is floundering with the group he has had so far and really needs a couple of older, wiser heads in support and mentoring. Maybe a couple of ex coaches- dunno.. Ayres, Eade, GT?

Ben McGlynn has recently left Swines and is on our coaching panel as a new assistant. Backline or so I believe.
He did mentor the Swines forwards, so I would prefer he do that with us, esp since that waste of time Hamill has now become Zebs coach.

You are a year behind....as McGlynn joined as a year ago.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2016-10-2 ... hing-panel

McGlynn still has "L" Plates on as this year with us was his first year of coaching ever.

What we need are more assistants like Playfair who have had a solid amount of coaching experience.


PS Forget GT as a mentor, his track record is one of division. Balme brings people together. ie Listen to what Balme said on his advice to Hardwick when he joined.

[meher baba]

eeeek

whatever ya do , do not mention the GT

personally ... i loved him

got in and had a go
took on more than he should of 'n gave the Club back a bit of Chin Up Display

leaders lead ... the rest can bleat n bitch over their coffees , beers n march'n powder

st kilda fc ... turning natural talent into robots ,
with NO FLAG for THAT mistake

... DOH

imo , ooc , fwtw

+1

In two years GT took the club from one spot above the wooden spoon to being a kick away from the GF. All but a handful of that team in the 2004 PF were playing in their first finals series. In 2005 the club had a dreadful run with injuries, but still made the PF (and were leading into the final quarter) and, after another dreadful run of injuries, only missed out on a top four finish in 2006 by dint of the AFL intervening in the result of the game against Freo.

Because of the ridiculous mess he and Butters had made of their own and each others' lives, GT had to go IMO. But some posters on here judge him as a coach by a ridiculously high standard which, if it had been applied to the likes of Bomber Thompson, Hardwick and others, would have seen their careers cut short long before they got to hold up a premiership cup.

[Francis Urquhart]

G&T

what he said

And another please.

That's a bit weak, could you add another splash please... oh and an ice cube, thanks.

F.U.

[loris]

G&T

what he said

And another please.

That's a bit weak, could you add another splash please... oh and an ice cube, thanks.

F.U.

Dadiiiiieeeeee! The extra splash has tipped me over the edge........

[Francis Urquhart]

G&T

what he said

And another please.

That's a bit weak, could you add another splash please... oh and an ice cube, thanks.

F.U.

Dadiiiiieeeeee! The extra splash has tipped me over the edge........

Soon I will be everyone's Daddy.