Jaxons come on down (2017/18 thread)

[Jacks Back]

This 3rd man up reference in regards Hickey is an abject nonsense.

How many clean clearances did Steven and Armitage effect from centre bounces, courtesy of Hickey's excellent palming?

And what was Hickey's follow up work, winning his own clearances?

Plus his around the ground marking?

What we do need from him is to play free from the ailments which have impacted on too many seasons - including 2017.

In 2016, his palming in the ruck was the best St Kilda have enjoyed since Gardiner.

In 2017, our ruck presence saw contested ball - hence the comment on Steele on the St Kilda Website, a comment which could be applied to others.

No doubt the absence of a 2016 Hickey impacted Steven - and, of course, Armitage was absent

Each to their own opinion of course, but I would have a fit Hickey over Longer every time.

Rucking apart from centre bounces has become a merry go round, embracing dance as the rucks engage each other - and the next step by the AFL will be to ensure the contest is for the ball which will assist Hickey.

And throw out the third up rule, which is a nonsense.

If the ball is the object and not engaging your opposite number in the manner currently allowed there is no need for a third man up embargo.

The third man up is only effective if the rucks have their arms around each other, wrestling and engaging which is what we see now absent centre bounces

So the centre square engagement is replicated at every ruck contest.

And why 2 sets of rules for centre square contests and then elsewhere?

+1 If people think Longer is the answer as our long term ruckman then they have rocks in their head. Not a footballer's bootlace!

[Gordo']

Third man up rule cruelled Hickey based on what? 2 games.

yep the judgment is harsh and we're back to this old argument again
The ONLY thing in Longers favour is Richo's preference for him - thats it.

People are quick to forget/ignore Hickeys past seasons and on 2016 alone set the standard that Longer MUST be judged by -
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 016&fid2=S
574 vs 656 hitouts hardly indicates that Hickey is cr@p at ruckwork
But the massive indictment on Longer is this little nugget
2720 Metres Gained 355
In todays football where you basically have 8-10 onballers, everyone needs to contribute moving the ball forward

...cue the Longer stat nitpickers

too flowering right mate! you must be a muso, right mate? and i read flowering somewhere that you're mexican??? ffs, i'm putting the band back together, and i'd reckon a bit mariachi is just what we flowering need! we've already signed up plucker66 as our axeman. (and his folks are on backing vocals. ffs!!! talk about flowering great steak knives! they're flowering good!) stinger plays his organ. then there's harrietm, who ffs, is not a bad lead vocalist!!! we're also negotiating with liam pickering to get true believer and his metal ukulele out of a certain flowering contract with a bunch of soft%&#ks up north - but that's meant to be a secret.

[asiu]

he was good on his organ

[Shaggy]

This 3rd man up reference in regards Hickey is an abject nonsense.

How many clean clearances did Steven and Armitage effect from centre bounces, courtesy of Hickey's excellent palming?

And what was Hickey's follow up work, winning his own clearances?

Plus his around the ground marking?

What we do need from him is to play free from the ailments which have impacted on too many seasons - including 2017.

In 2016, his palming in the ruck was the best St Kilda have enjoyed since Gardiner.

In 2017, our ruck presence saw contested ball - hence the comment on Steele on the St Kilda Website, a comment which could be applied to others.

No doubt the absence of a 2016 Hickey impacted Steven - and, of course, Armitage was absent

Each to their own opinion of course, but I would have a fit Hickey over Longer every time.

Rucking apart from centre bounces has become a merry go round, embracing dance as the rucks engage each other - and the next step by the AFL will be to ensure the contest is for the ball which will assist Hickey.

And throw out the third up rule, which is a nonsense.

If the ball is the object and not engaging your opposite number in the manner currently allowed there is no need for a third man up embargo.

The third man up is only effective if the rucks have their arms around each other, wrestling and engaging which is what we see now absent centre bounces

So the centre square engagement is replicated at every ruck contest.

And why 2 sets of rules for centre square contests and then elsewhere?

+1 If people think Longer is the answer as our long term ruckman then they have rocks in their head. Not a footballer's bootlace!

Longer's last 7 games for us after just turning 24 according to sen:

16 Rich Thoroughly towelled up Nankervis in the ruck and kicked a rare goal. 7
17 Hamstring.
18 Syd Lion hearted effort in ruck and gave his midfielders chances if they could capitalise. 6
19 Port Battled hard in ruck but lowered his colours to the in-form Ryder. 4
20 WCE Dominated ruck duels with 51 hit-outs. Uncompromising display 7
21 Melb Got the better of Gawn in the ruck and frustrated the Demons big man. Tired a bit late. 8
22 NM Stood his ground against big North rucks and won the most hit-outs of anybody on the field. 6
23 Rich Probably Saints’ best. Gave great effort throughout and one of few to play consistently; 12 disposals. 7

[SaintPav]

Good trend.

He needs to keep it up.

Hickey plays an important role here as he keeps pressure on him to perform.

Hickey's had an outstanding 2016 season. Let's not forget that.

[degruch]

...and we leave our ruck resources with the cumbersome liability Longer, who is not capable of taking a mark or getting a possession with back up being Holmes and Marshall

Just because you don't agree doesn't make the point 'rediculous', maybe it just means you haven't been paying attention (and are prone to exaggeration...and overly wordy posts...during which you should be paying more attention)?

[CQ SAINT]

Getting back to Jaxons' whisper on Haynes there are some interesting considerations.

1. He grew up a Saints supporter
2. He is from Frankston
3 About the time we were courting Steele he went to GWS and asked for a contract extension stating he was very happy there.
4. Since then he has proven himself and his 2017 season stats are boardering on elite for his position.
5. He literally came from no where returning from 3-4 years out of the game to play Senior footy at 17 before being drafted by GWS
6. He can play forward, is incredible athletic and a grest mark.
7. He has had some serious injuries before and after his AFL career began but has proven that he can work hard, recover well and bounce back with great effect.
8. His journey so far, if he came to the Saints, would be an inspiring tale and I feel there is a lot more to come.

Not hard to believe he would come.
Not hard to believe GWS would like to gain pick 7 or 8.
Fair to say it would be a good trade for both clubs and would fast track any selection we would make with pick 7 or 8 in the draft.

This bloke is a big fish in waiting. Wouldnt be surprised if we threw the cheque book at him.

As for the Williams whisper. He has also come from no where, has surpassed a number of better placed draft picks at GWS and would be the perfect partner for Steven to move us forward in the midfield and off half back in Joey's absense.

Add Motlop through free agency and we are looking pretty solid at Moorabin and TBO. These 3 are mid 20's and would significantly improve our list in this age bracket, add much needed outside run, skill and creativity and improve our overall flexibilty.

I would be more than happy to dump the draft for these 3 now.

In terms of list management it may place us under pressure in the next 3 years but if these 3 came and fired, we could still trade out players like Geary, Newnes and Savage for decent picks and free up more cash for free Agency. Hate me later, its only a theory.

We need Weller Hickey and Meatball to regain full fitness and form and we are looking

We also have McCartin Battle White and Long developing.

If we are to make sense of our current contracts and list management strategies in the last 5 years; getting these 3 makes sense; much more sense than throwing record offers at the likes of Kelly, Martin or Fyfe would have.

Any thoughts?

[saynta]

Good post. Very interesting

[carn_sainter]

Good post CQ.

Except for suggesting trade out Geary, now or ever. Won't and shouldn't happen. He is a top class elite one on one player and an excellent reader of the play. And the captain.

The point about needing kids for 3, 4, 5 years time is the confounding factor for me. I'd be nervous not adding some 18yr olds of talent.

[bigred]

The thought of recruiting Motlop makes me vomit in my mouth a little.

[loris]

This site is what it is - and who contributes goodness knows

But there are some who seem to have some credentials - so at this time of the year you browse for information, acknowledging the absence of confirmation by player or Club

So, with Haynes, you take it with a grain of salt pending any confirmation by player or Club

But that is the information you browse for at this time

As for some of the other comment, it is just so rediculous that you would assess the contributors to be primary school age children

As an example, we trade Armitage who is a class and experienced performer for a side which has now lost the experience of Riewoldt and Montagna, we trade Acres and Dunstan, and Mc Cartin because he is a Type1 Diabetic, we trade Gilbert and we leave our ruck resources with the cumbersome liability Longer, who is not capable of taking a mark or getting a possession with back up being Holmes and Marshall

But we fete Geary and Longer and Minchington and Templeton

And of course, Freeman and Carlisle are dud recruits

Well, we need to look at the bench mark sides and assess against their resources plus the improvement they will make heading into 2018

To say we are aiming at a premiership in some future year is a nonsense

You are in the competition every year, as is every other Club

So you assess every year, reference to bench mark and add 20% for the improvement the benchmark sides will improve by

That is the competition

We currently have those players Drafted in the top 20 during the Richardson years, plus Carlisle and Freeman.

And trust some others seeking opportunity with us that was not on elsewhere outperform the expectations of their previous Clubs

Plus the experience of Steven, Armitage and Gilbert who are our core of experience now

Then we have Picks 7 and 8 this year, but that is the future

These are the reasons you look for a story re Haynes - and trust there is substance!

Do you realise Templeton no longer plays for the Saints???????

[Sainternist]

This site is what it is - and who contributes goodness knows

But there are some who seem to have some credentials - so at this time of the year you browse for information, acknowledging the absence of confirmation by player or Club

So, with Haynes, you take it with a grain of salt pending any confirmation by player or Club

But that is the information you browse for at this time

As for some of the other comment, it is just so rediculous that you would assess the contributors to be primary school age children

As an example, we trade Armitage who is a class and experienced performer for a side which has now lost the experience of Riewoldt and Montagna, we trade Acres and Dunstan, and Mc Cartin because he is a Type1 Diabetic, we trade Gilbert and we leave our ruck resources with the cumbersome liability Longer, who is not capable of taking a mark or getting a possession with back up being Holmes and Marshall

But we fete Geary and Longer and Minchington and Templeton

And of course, Freeman and Carlisle are dud recruits

Well, we need to look at the bench mark sides and assess against their resources plus the improvement they will make heading into 2018

To say we are aiming at a premiership in some future year is a nonsense

You are in the competition every year, as is every other Club

So you assess every year, reference to bench mark and add 20% for the improvement the benchmark sides will improve by

That is the competition

We currently have those players Drafted in the top 20 during the Richardson years, plus Carlisle and Freeman.

And trust some others seeking opportunity with us that was not on elsewhere outperform the expectations of their previous Clubs

Plus the experience of Steven, Armitage and Gilbert who are our core of experience now

Then we have Picks 7 and 8 this year, but that is the future

These are the reasons you look for a story re Haynes - and trust there is substance!

Do you realise Templeton no longer plays for the Saints???????

Eli just came off an outstanding premiership season with Port Melbourne, Loris. Perhaps TTT is thinking that we'll recruit him again on that basis.

[Bernard Shakey]

Do you realise Templeton no longer plays for the Saints???????

Premiership player with the Borough!

[CQ SAINT]

Good post GQ.

Except for suggesting trade out Geary, now or ever. Won't and shouldn't happen. He is a top class elite one on one player and an excellent reader of the play. And the captain.

The point about needing kids for 3, 4, 5 years time is the confounding factor for me. I'd be nervous not adding some 18yr olds of talent.

Yeah I feel your sentiment about Geary. He is reliable, steady and courageous. He also had no love for Ross the Boss and helped shelve Riewoldts influence on the team and direction of the club and basically thete was no one else for the Captaincy job. But if Josh Kelly wanted to come on the condition he was made captain and GWS wanted pick 8 and Geary; Geary would be gone and Kelly would be Captain.

No negative reflection on Geary but class performer or premiership Captain does not come to mind when I hear his name but then the same might have been said about a premiership Captain at Collingwood not so long ago, although most critics and commentators plauded him. Geary justed isnt getting the same accolades.

[parkeysainter]

3 x GWS players are formally requesting a trade back home.

Kennedy and Smith back to Vic.
Wilson back to WA.

[st.byron]

3 x GWS players are formally requesting a trade back home.

Kennedy and Smith back to Vic.
Wilson back to WA.

As in Devon Smith?

[degruch]

3 x GWS players are formally requesting a trade back home.

Kennedy and Smith back to Vic.
Wilson back to WA.

As in Devon Smith?

Yes. Gotta wonder how this changes the situation with potential Haynes and Williams trades, as I'm sure GWS don't fancy rebuilding their entire backline around Shaw and Davis!

[st.byron]

3 x GWS players are formally requesting a trade back home.

Kennedy and Smith back to Vic.
Wilson back to WA.

As in Devon Smith?

Yes. Gotta wonder how this changes the situation with potential Haynes and Williams trades, as I'm sure GWS don't fancy rebuilding their entire backline around Shaw and Davis!

Tomlinson is pretty handy too.

[To the top]

There were many suggesting Templeton was AFL class, when he was adequate VFL.

In regards Longer, how many times did we kick to Longer, the ball hitting his cement hands and finishing in a contest.

Sorry, but in at least 50% of those continuing situations I would expect our Number 1 Ruck to actually take the mark and then use the ball to advantage by hand or by foot.

Longer just can not catch a ball.

He is a liability.

[damienc]

3 x GWS players are formally requesting a trade back home.

Kennedy and Smith back to Vic.
Wilson back to WA.

As in Devon Smith?

Yes. Gotta wonder how this changes the situation with potential Haynes and Williams trades, as I'm sure GWS don't fancy rebuilding their entire backline around Shaw and Davis!

Exactly. For that reason we have little or no chance of getting Haynes or Williams who are both in the GWS starting 18 and very much required players. I think the chances of them in a St Kilda jumper in 2018 is more wishful thinking than substance, no offence intended. Interesting none of the three who do want to leave the Giants have the Saints as their preferred destination. Just saying.

[Myron Gaines]

Haynes ain't going anywhere imo

[GregPackhamsHeadband]

3 x GWS players are formally requesting a trade back home.

Kennedy and Smith back to Vic.
Wilson back to WA.

As in Devon Smith?

Yes. Gotta wonder how this changes the situation with potential Haynes and Williams trades, as I'm sure GWS don't fancy rebuilding their entire backline around Shaw and Davis!

Exactly. For that reason we have little or no chance of getting Haynes or Williams who are both in the GWS starting 18 and very much required players. I think the chances of them in a St Kilda jumper in 2018 is more wishful thinking than substance, no offence intended. Interesting none of the three who do want to leave the Giants have the Saints as their preferred destination. Just saying.

Very hard to disagree. Apart from the inconvenient fact that Haynes is contracted until 2019. That would give the GWS the upper hand in any negotiating. We didn't land a big fish, missed out on the flatheads and now won't even get a sprat, it would seem. Maybe next year we could get Rex Hunt on board with the recruiters. He's handy at landing big fish.

[SaintPav]

Screwed me again. Last year it was Laverde.

I'm a laughing stock amongst my Saints mates.

Thanks very much Jaxons...



NOT!!!!

[felix]

Good post. Very interesting

That would be good I'm sold make it happen

[Devilhead]

It's not over until.Jaxons says so - you know the rules