Longer!!!!!

[sunsaint]

I will concede that Longer's endurance has improved in 2017 - one of Hickeys strengths
but that would would only give me a wafer thin slice of the crusty stale end bit of the pie

[samoht]

So this is still going!!!!......

That should be good for another volley of 10 or so pages!!!

The thread title would be a misnomer, wouldn't it, if this wasn't still going. I mean how long is a piece of (Essendope) thread?

[Jacks Back]

So this is still going!!!!!

I'll point you to 2 efforts by St Kilda ruckmen that impacted on the result of a game.

1. Michael Gardiner v Geelong at Docklands.
2. Jason Blake (yes!) v Hawthorn at Docklands when we turned a game on its head after half time.

I note a reference to Longer spoiling Gawn inside the Melbourne F50 arc on multiple occasions (and Gawn kicked 1 and hit the post with another).

Well, I did not notice that but, then again, I do not wear Longer rose colored glasses waiting for him to actually take a mark or win a kick (except a free kick, where Gawn gave him a few).

The question I have tho, is that Gawn was going forward, obviously.

We again lost with only Bruce and the 188cm Membrey playing forward (and Bruce rucking as did Brown - once!).

Given the lack of tall options forward, did Longer drag Gawn to our F50?

Were we able to "park" Longer forward to rest him from ruck duties so we could "hit the square"?

In fact, given in the two games I mentioned, both Gardiner and Blake kicked 4 goals apiece, what danger does Longer bring to scoreboard pressure?

Longer is what he is, competitive in the ruck contest with his big body (given he gets to the contest aka Ryder), otherwise as honest as the day is long, no doubt liked by his fellow players but a very, very, very long way short from what we need if we are to add to our 1966 Premiership.

Yes, he is "only" 24 - but that is no excuse.

The tools to do what Gardiner and Blake did are absent.

Longer simply does not win the ball, overhead or at ground level and is a liability.

Look at his stats.

We have to get Hickey fit and firing to progress.

The end equation is that, with Longer in the side and the game being our most important for some years, St Kilda lost the game.

That is the starting point.

Not rose colored glasses.

That should be good for another volley of 10 or so pages!!!

Don't worry stonecold (or should that be stonedeaf) will keep on defending the indefensible until the cows come home. We need a good ruck man that can also actually do something (anything) around the ground and a 28 year old Longer won't be that guy.

[Crossy66]

So this is still going!!!!!

I'll point you to 2 efforts by St Kilda ruckmen that impacted on the result of a game.

1. Michael Gardiner v Geelong at Docklands.
2. Jason Blake (yes!) v Hawthorn at Docklands when we turned a game on its head after half time.

I note a reference to Longer spoiling Gawn inside the Melbourne F50 arc on multiple occasions (and Gawn kicked 1 and hit the post with another).

Well, I did not notice that but, then again, I do not wear Longer rose colored glasses waiting for him to actually take a mark or win a kick (except a free kick, where Gawn gave him a few).

The question I have tho, is that Gawn was going forward, obviously.

We again lost with only Bruce and the 188cm Membrey playing forward (and Bruce rucking as did Brown - once!).

Given the lack of tall options forward, did Longer drag Gawn to our F50?

Were we able to "park" Longer forward to rest him from ruck duties so we could "hit the square"?

In fact, given in the two games I mentioned, both Gardiner and Blake kicked 4 goals apiece, what danger does Longer bring to scoreboard pressure?

Longer is what he is, competitive in the ruck contest with his big body (given he gets to the contest aka Ryder), otherwise as honest as the day is long, no doubt liked by his fellow players but a very, very, very long way short from what we need if we are to add to our 1966 Premiership.

Yes, he is "only" 24 - but that is no excuse.

The tools to do what Gardiner and Blake did are absent.

Longer simply does not win the ball, overhead or at ground level and is a liability.

Look at his stats.

We have to get Hickey fit and firing to progress.

The end equation is that, with Longer in the side and the game being our most important for some years, St Kilda lost the game.

That is the starting point.

Not rose colored glasses.

That should be good for another volley of 10 or so pages!!!

Don't worry stonecold (or should that be stonedeaf) will keep on defending the indefensible until the cows come home. We need a good ruck man that can also actually do something (anything) around the ground and a 28 year old Longer won't be that guy.

mmmmm...
Lets see. Opposition coach and team coach rate Billy the saints best (against reigning AA ruckman)
versus
A handful of nuffies on a fan forum Who think he was poor.

There goes your credibility right there.

Week before the opposition rated Billy as the difference between the two teams
Clearly AFL coaches, plus 90% of true supporters have a different view.
You could reconsider your position or continue on the current line.

You guys remind me of someone. Click here:

[stonecold]

Jacks won't be back and To The Top won't listen to yours, mine or anyone else common sense Crossy, they just won't except Billy cause they have bagged him and run him down in the past, so don't stress mate, they just don't get it, no matter whom the message comes from!!!!!!

Unlike some, they just don't have the courage to admit they,are wrong and won't taste a slice of Billy's Humble Pie!!!!!

As for the insults Jack, here's a good idea for ya, keep them to yourself, thanks!!!!!

[sunsaint]

You guys remind me of someone. Click here:

Oh ok
Maybe stkilda relying on Longer is a bit more like

[samoht]

Billy's had a couple of reasonable games, to be fair this year- but the opposition coach isn't going to give you a hand up by volunteering the right information to you - are they? They're more likely to reinforce what you want to hear, when it benefits them.

We need drive from our ruckman, and Stefan Martin (for instance) just from metres gained around the ground, will give a team another 4 more shots at goal compared to Longer. We are not talking about a clearance here or there that may or may not end up amounting to something (and remember Cox and Nat's hitout dominance didn't translate into more clearances for their team).

The hitout count means nothing to me.

Longer is a battering ram and is all heart, so may end up like Armo (where the battering has taken its toll on his body) - so may not develop like other younger ruckmen with football ability.'

If the other coaches think so highly of him, we should think about trading him, while his body is still ok?

Little Gresham took 8 marks last week vs Longer's 1. A good ruckman contributes around the ground, takes marks and gains metres for his team.

[WellardSaint]

Billy's had a couple of reasonable games, to be fair this year- but the opposition coach isn't going to give you a hand up by volunteering the right information to you - are they? They're more likely to reinforce what you want to hear, when it benefits them.

We need drive from our ruckman, and Stefan Martin (for instance) just from metres gained around the ground, will give a team another 4 more shots at goal compared to Longer. We are not talking about a clearance here or there that may or may not end up amounting to something (and remember Cox and Nat's hitout dominance didn't translate into more clearances for their team).

The hitout count means nothing to me.

Longer is a battering ram and is all heart, so may end up like Armo - may not develop like other younger ruckman with football ability.

Little Gresham took 8 marks last week vs Longer's 1. A good ruckman contributes around the ground, takes marks and gains metres for his team.

A big guy like Longer should be better than one mark in an entire game, geezus. He should be able to drop back in defence and take a few there, using his height!
Instead of bloody pressure points, why don't they insist on such a tower getting at least 2 marks in a quarter (as a target, something to work towards)

[Crossy66]

You guys remind me of someone. Click here:

Oh ok
Maybe stkilda relying on Longer is a bit more like

Love it Sunsaint! thanks for sharing it

[Crossy66]

Billy's had a couple of reasonable games, to be fair this year- but the opposition coach isn't going to give you a hand up by volunteering the right information to you - are they? They're more likely to reinforce what you want to hear, when it benefits them.

We need drive from our ruckman, and Stefan Martin (for instance) just from metres gained around the ground, will give a team another 4 more shots at goal compared to Longer. We are not talking about a clearance here or there that may or may not end up amounting to something (and remember Cox and Nat's hitout dominance didn't translate into more clearances for their team).

The hitout count means nothing to me.

Longer is a battering ram and is all heart, so may end up like Armo (where the battering has taken its toll on his body) - so may not develop like other younger ruckmen with football ability.'

If the other coaches think so highly of him, we should think about trading him, while his body is still ok?

Little Gresham took 8 marks last week vs Longer's 1. A good ruckman contributes around the ground, takes marks and gains metres for his team.

Sam Sam Sam, what are you saying.

The opposition coaches like him because he is a good player so suggest we clear him. interesting logic

"Little Gresham took 8 marks!". Sure, little Gresham took 8 uncontested marks running into spaces. He had 17 possessions, 6 contested, Billy had 15 and 15 contested. At this stage Gresham plays an outside roll. Thats ok, we cut him slack because we are getting games into him. Good thing we dont compare him to Dangerfield or Dusty at this stage of his career.

Metres gained? Billy dishes off to runners and usually backwards, so the runners get the stat so what? Nett result is the TEAM gets the metres gained

Comparison to Stephan Martin? He is 31 years Old! Incidentally, at Billy's age he only managed 2 games for cellar dweller Melbourne and took 4 marks for the whole year!
But given time i guess you would say he developed! At 26 - 28 years of age he played second fiddle to Leuenberger and wasnt the Lions number one ruck

Clearances? Longer has led clearances stat for the saints past two weeks. His ruck work gives the mids first crack at it, its up to them to capitalise

At the end of the day, if we didnt butcher the ball around the ground and in front of goal we would have one a lot more matches. The problem is not in the ruck

For what its worth, I agree with you that he needs to take more marks around the ground, but i am sure we will see this happen going forward. He can certainly take a clean grab and is a good kick for a big bloke. My contribution to this topic only comes about because in my view he has really stepped up in the last few months which is terrific for our club.

[sunsaint]

You guys remind me of someone. Click here:

Oh ok
Maybe stkilda relying on Longer is a bit more like

Love it Sunsaint! thanks for sharing it

glad you enjoyed the humour of it all!!!!

[GregPackhamsHeadband]

I remember watching Billy in the Under 18's and he was a dominant ruckman. He was bigger and stronger than most and he monstered his opponents. He could also take a decent contested grab. He was also a reliable shot for goal. He was drafted at number 8, remember. He just hasn't come on as quickly as you'd expect, but playing more often this year has advanced his development. I'm still hopeful. The ability he had as a junior has not been lost. I think he's struggled with mobility and endurance. As these build over the next couple of years and his confidence grows, I think he could turn out to be like Steven King. Patience, grasshoppers. He's taken time, but it could be worth it. If he was capable of going forward in short bursts, it would complete the picture.

[one point]

He seemed to turn the corner against Freo and has improved most weeks from then.

[samoht]

[For what its worth, I agree with you that he needs to take more marks around the ground, but i am sure we will see this happen going forward. He can certainly take a clean grab and is a good kick for a big bloke. My contribution to this topic only comes about because in my view he has really stepped up in the last few months which is terrific for our club.

Yes, he certainly needs to take more marks and kick the ball more to gain more metres for his team.
Longer averages 6.7 effective possessions per game this year (9.4 minus 2.7 clangers) - and most of these are handballs.

By the way, the gaining of metres and bringing other team mates into play are not mutually exclusive or subtractive things - they are in fact additive.
Other ruckmen (a.) gain100, 150 metres or 200 metres themselves (by marking and going back and kicking the ball or by kicking the ball in general play) - plus (b.) they bring their team mates into play - by dishing handballs out to them.

To become a very good ruckman, Longer needs to add (a.) into his game (he only averages a gain of 13 metres per game)...by adding a few more kicks and marks .. say 5 more kicks and 3 more marks, without losing (b.), which is also important.

You're pretty sure that he will do this, and I hope you're right. Longer deserves to be amongst the best - he gives his all.

[To the top]

Another 2 kicks, 4 handballs and 1 mark today to add to his legend status

His opposite number was high in his side's best players and sparked their early third quarter recovery

Mind you, when are we going to learn that Acres is an elite midfielder?

And play him there for the entire game

[skeptic]

I like Longer but thought he got touched up today despite a few good taps

[The_Dud]

Billy's ruckwork isn't bad, but after that he is basically useless. He made Goldstein, who has been in nearly career worst form, look like an absolute star today. The days of the lumbering ruckman are over, they need to be able to impact around the ground.

If Billy is our number one ruckman, can someone name another clubs number one ruckman who he is a better player than??

[The Fireman]

I think the Longer love is being exaggerated by only one poster on here.

[bigcarl]

when are we going to learn that Acres is an elite midfielder?

And play him there for the entire game

The thought doesn't seem to have occurred to Richo, who has him pigeonholed as a flanker

[Jacks Back]

I think the Longer love is being exaggerated by only one poster on here.

+1

[Sainternist]

My favourite Billy moment from a few years ago:

[Gordo']

I think the Longer love is being exaggerated by only one poster on here.

billy don't be a hero (re-mix)
(murray, callender, austin and gordo')

billy don't be a statistical zero
be cool with your footballing life
take a steadying mark when your team is in strife.

and as billy started to go
all the on-ballers said
"keep your pretty centre of gravity low.
don't fall over ffs!!! help get the footy to come back to me."

the battle was ragin' all around
the team runner cried "you're marking, you've gotta hang on ffs billy!!!
we gotta hold out, have a win this round.”

i heard a supporter got a letter
that told how billy played today
33000 taps, the letter said that he was a hero
you should be proud he played that way
but 2 kicks, 1 handball, 1 mark?
and goals? ffs!!! again a big fat zero.

i heard stoney threw that letter away.

[sunsaint]

geesh people
c'mon Gordo was funny!

[stonecold]

I think the Longer love is being exaggerated by only one poster on here.

One Poster?????

Playing group, coaching staff, opposition coaches, former AFL Champions v' a handful of spuds on this forum, now that IS FUNNY, keep the dream alive KC'S!!!!!

[The Fireman]

I think the Longer love is being exaggerated by only one poster on here.

One Poster?????

Playing group, coaching staff, opposition coaches, former AFL Champions v' a handful of spuds on this forum, now that IS FUNNY, keep the dream alive KC'S!!!!!

I wonder who that poster could be ???