Billy Cost Us The Game

[stonecold]

As previously stated, to point the finger at one player is insane!!!!!

Nothing to see but rubbish post!!!!!

[To the top]

This response is symptomatic of why St Kilda has won just the one premiership in its history, that by one point in 1966.

The bounday throw in exposed a break down - firstly in that the opposition ruckman had an unimpeded contest on the ball.

The wider ramification is the protection of and defence of Longer - even to the extent of putting blame on Acres, Ross, Dunstan and Billings et al.

Simply, and no one answers this, in his 60 AFL games Longer's ruck competition has been BOG or near BOG in the far greater majority of those games - and, again, Ryder received 8 Coach's votes last weekend.

Longer has 60 AFL games, plus a number of games at the lower level, at 2 Clubs.

And still his opposition ruck competition dominate games aka Ryder.

So nothing has changed in 60 games (3 full seasons of AFL footy).

And still we persevere with him, at AFL level to boot!

And, in the process we "burn" Hickey, after his 2016 season (allowing for injury interruption in 2017, and being "rested" from the VFL prior to gaining AFL selection - so off an injury interrupted season then a 2 week "break" when continuity was the requirement).

These are the questions - and there are similar questions elsewhere in regards our selection bias and the deployment of players, including GOP triers aka our Captain (why didn't he assume responsibility for PA's most potent player in those circumstances?).

IF Longer is "only" 60 games into an AFL career, and at 24 is still developing, play him in the VFL to develop him - then play him at AFL level when his form warrants it and he is not a liability, a liability which sees his opposite number dominating games and results.

Romance does not win premierships.

Hard nosed, focused decisions do.

This side will ride or fall on Carlisle (and anyone else of his ilk we can attract), McCartin, Billings, Freeman, Dunstan, Acres, Goddard and Gresham plus the 2 First Round Draft picks in our keep for the 2018 season.

Plus the likes of Armitage and Steven.

And trust in the likes of White as a Second Round pick and some others who could not cement spots at their previous Clubs out performing the assessments of those other Clubs who let them go for the reasons they did.

Anyway, I have had enough of beating against a brick wall of adulation for honest triers who do not deliver the result in this competative competition.

[stonecold]

Playing Hickey is not a hard nosed decision in any shape or form, Hickey 2017 is not Hickey 2016, so that selection would be romantic in itself, at present Billy is the man and Tom had a chance to change that but couldn't!!!!!

As I have stated for a long time, let him bang the door down, then play him if he can do that!!!!!

Only trouble for Tom is, 'the door airnt made of tissue paper', but hey, on current form Tom would either miss or break a toe trying to kick it in!!!!!

[saynta]

Having watched the game three times, I'm staggered nobody has commented on the elephant in the room.

Billy Longer cost us the game. All he needed to do was contest that last ruck contest. He didn't. We lost!

The ball was thrown in short. Although that particularly puny maggot had been doing that all day.

Billy should have taken note.

[Proph3t of egan]

This response is symptomatic of why St Kilda has won just the one premiership in its history, that by one point in 1966.

The bounday throw in exposed a break down - firstly in that the opposition ruckman had an unimpeded contest on the ball.

The wider ramification is the protection of and defence of Longer - even to the extent of putting blame on Acres, Ross, Dunstan and Billings et al.

Simply, and no one answers this, in his 60 AFL games Longer's ruck competition has been BOG or near BOG in the far greater majority of those games - and, again, Ryder received 8 Coach's votes last weekend.

Longer has 60 AFL games, plus a number of games at the lower level, at 2 Clubs.

And still his opposition ruck competition dominate games aka Ryder.

So nothing has changed in 60 games (3 full seasons of AFL footy).

And still we persevere with him, at AFL level to boot!

And, in the process we "burn" Hickey, after his 2016 season (allowing for injury interruption in 2017, and being "rested" from the VFL prior to gaining AFL selection - so off an injury interrupted season then a 2 week "break" when continuity was the requirement).

These are the questions - and there are similar questions elsewhere in regards our selection bias and the deployment of players, including GOP triers aka our Captain (why didn't he assume responsibility for PA's most potent player in those circumstances?).

IF Longer is "only" 60 games into an AFL career, and at 24 is still developing, play him in the VFL to develop him - then play him at AFL level when his form warrants it and he is not a liability, a liability which sees his opposite number dominating games and results.

Romance does not win premierships.

Hard nosed, focused decisions do.

This side will ride or fall on Carlisle (and anyone else of his ilk we can attract), McCartin, Billings, Freeman, Dunstan, Acres, Goddard and Gresham plus the 2 First Round Draft picks in our keep for the 2018 season.

Plus the likes of Armitage and Steven.

And trust in the likes of White as a Second Round pick and some others who could not cement spots at their previous Clubs out performing the assessments of those other Clubs who let them go for the reasons they did.

Anyway, I have had enough of beating against a brick wall of adulation for honest triers who do not deliver the result in this competative competition.

Your claim that longer makes the opposition ruxkmen the best player on the ground is interesting, seeing as hickey without fail has lost to every ruxkmen he faced (bar a nicnat-less west coast) without fail, where as longer has completely lost by my count 4 matches (Ryder, Darcy, Witts, Goldstein).

[thejiggingsaint]

Longer was good against Mumford.

[stonecold]

Longer was good against Mumford.

Also Bulldogs and Richmond as well as other games!!!!!

Hickey has been good in which games this year?????

Has not kicked the door down or even leant on it, for that matter!!!!!

That my point!!!!!

[David-Lee]

How about blaming everyone on the team? Mistackling, poor conversions etc. Its like blaming Roo for missing the goal in the Granny. Team efforts create team wins or losses.

[lewdogs]

Billy is meant to be in the team for his ruck work... yet with the game on the line he went to pieces. Hate to point the finger but he was shocking, culminating in that last insipid play. Get any type of hand on the ball and we win. Really makes my blood boil.

[Crossy66]

This response is symptomatic of why St Kilda has won just the one premiership in its history, that by one point in 1966.

The bounday throw in exposed a break down - firstly in that the opposition ruckman had an unimpeded contest on the ball.

The wider ramification is the protection of and defence of Longer - even to the extent of putting blame on Acres, Ross, Dunstan and Billings et al.

Simply, and no one answers this, in his 60 AFL games Longer's ruck competition has been BOG or near BOG in the far greater majority of those games - and, again, Ryder received 8 Coach's votes last weekend.

Longer has 60 AFL games, plus a number of games at the lower level, at 2 Clubs.

And still his opposition ruck competition dominate games aka Ryder.

So nothing has changed in 60 games (3 full seasons of AFL footy).

And still we persevere with him, at AFL level to boot!

And, in the process we "burn" Hickey, after his 2016 season (allowing for injury interruption in 2017, and being "rested" from the VFL prior to gaining AFL selection - so off an injury interrupted season then a 2 week "break" when continuity was the requirement).

These are the questions - and there are similar questions elsewhere in regards our selection bias and the deployment of players, including GOP triers aka our Captain (why didn't he assume responsibility for PA's most potent player in those circumstances?).

IF Longer is "only" 60 games into an AFL career, and at 24 is still developing, play him in the VFL to develop him - then play him at AFL level when his form warrants it and he is not a liability, a liability which sees his opposite number dominating games and results.

Romance does not win premierships.

Hard nosed, focused decisions do.

This side will ride or fall on Carlisle (and anyone else of his ilk we can attract), McCartin, Billings, Freeman, Dunstan, Acres, Goddard and Gresham plus the 2 First Round Draft picks in our keep for the 2018 season.

Plus the likes of Armitage and Steven.

And trust in the likes of White as a Second Round pick and some others who could not cement spots at their previous Clubs out performing the assessments of those other Clubs who let them go for the reasons they did.

Anyway, I have had enough of beating against a brick wall of adulation for honest triers who do not deliver the result in this competative competition.

Your claim that longer makes the opposition ruxkmen the best player on the ground is interesting, seeing as hickey without fail has lost to every ruxkmen he faced (bar a nicnat-less west coast) without fail, where as longer has completely lost by my count 4 matches (Ryder, Darcy, Witts, Goldstein).

Its pretty simple really.
Neither Hickey, Holmes or Pierce have knocked the selection door down. Gifting games to players who havent earned it is not the way to go. Really simple - If Tom wants the opportunity - then grab it with both hands son! Thats what Richo has asked for. This notion that the coaches select players who are of less value than an equivalent running around in the Dev Squad or the two's is illogical isnt it?.

During the year, Billing, Dunstan, Paddy, Geary and about 10 others have taken turns to be the whipping boy. A few weeks ago Acres was the answer , now he is complicit in the Power loss. Fact is he and a few others got outplayed with a set play by two blokes (Ryder / Gray) both around 30 yo with 200 plus games behind them - no real surprise there - it happens. Perhaps with a few more leaders on the ground i.e. reiwoldt, Joey, Gilbert perhaps they would have been on to it who knows.

Point is that developing teams and developing players struggle with consistency, playing injured , experience etc. Just have to be a little patient and have some faith in YOUR team.
With a bit more composure in front of goal, Saints could have been top 4 and everyone happy. So we arent far way. Look out in 2018!

[samoht]

If Longer can be traded, we should consider it.
He has a big heart and what he is offering is physicality - which (the odds are) will logically wane over time, as he gets older and more battered. So he may not follow the developmental path you'd expect with young ruckmen, who do possess football ability.

[freely]

+1, Crossy. Onward and upward!

[Crossy66]

If Longer can be traded, we should consider it.
He has a big heart and what he is offering is physicality - which (the odds are) will logically wane over time, as he gets older and more battered.

who rucks?

[Crossy66]

+1, Crossy. Onward and upward!

Thats the spirit!

[samoht]

Marshall and a pinch hitter, crossy66?
We need quality midfielders - if we get a second round pick for Billy, I'd take it (which we could then combine with other picks to get a quality midfielder across).

[Crossy66]

Marshall and a pinch hitter, crossy66?
We need quality midfielders - if we get a second round pick for Billy, I'd take it (which we could then combine with other picks to get a quality midfielder across).

Marshall looks a great prospect Sam, particularly around the ground. atm though he is more a KP player and hasnt shown much in the ruck at VFL level this year though.
But on the other point you are spot on .More elite mids, a goal kicking coach and away we go!

[samuraisaint]

As I have said before, I am probably more in the Hickey camp than the Longer camp at present, but kicking 2.12 plus who knows how many out of bounds on the full, and other bombs to no-one in particular inside-50 up until a second before 3/4 time did us absolutely no favours whatsoever, and meant that it was our conversion that ultimately cost us. I think the competition between Billy and Tom is ultimately a good thing.
Having said that Longer probably could have made way for Marshall, Holmes or even trying Pierce again this week based on form - I think it is universally acknowledged that Ryder had a day out last week - and the week before against Sydney where young Naismith dominated.
Bad timing that McEvoy picked last weekend to play a blinder too, although it is pertinent to acknowledge that he is 28 and playing in a very good team. We need to back Hickey and Longer in long term and develop both of them. I don't want them to go elsewhere and start dominating in season or two.

[tony74]

Billy got a knock in the first half and although he didn't have concussion he wasn't taking in instructions. Bit concerning really given his earlier run of concussions previously. Coaches and runners were passing on tactics and he was basically forgetting them immediately. Doesn't mean an excuse but perhaps a reason. Cleared fully for this week.

[samuraisaint]

Billy got a knock in the first half and although he didn't have concussion he wasn't taking in instructions. Bit concerning really given his earlier run of concussions previously. Coaches and runners were passing on tactics and he was basically forgetting them immediately. Doesn't mean an excuse but perhaps a reason. Cleared fully for this week.

Thanks Tony! I noticed Bruce spent an extended period in the ruck last week. Is this why #1 was named as an emergency this week?

[tony74]

Spot on. Billy looks right to go

[realdeal]

.[/quote]
Your claim that longer makes the opposition ruxkmen the best player on the ground is interesting, seeing as hickey without fail has lost to every ruxkmen he faced (bar a nicnat-less west coast) without fail, where as longer has completely lost by my count 4 matches (Ryder, Darcy, Witts, Goldstein).[/quote]

Shall we add;
Adelaide: Sam Jacobs huge 25 disposal, 37 hit out game for Adelaide, (although Billy was able to gather 16 possessions, albeit just the one actual kick)
Carlton: Matthew Kreuzer's 19 possession game that helped keep the blues in the game against Longer's 6 disposal 32 hit out game........

If we compare players, Witts and Longer have nearly identical profiles and averages for the season however, Witts averages 5 more disposals.

I'm not sure how people rate Witts now but the stats are there..

[loris]

Billy got a knock in the first half and although he didn't have concussion he wasn't taking in instructions. Bit concerning really given his earlier run of concussions previously. Coaches and runners were passing on tactics and he was basically forgetting them immediately. Doesn't mean an excuse but perhaps a reason. Cleared fully for this week.

Thanks Tony! I noticed Bruce spent an extended period in the ruck last week. Is this why #1 was named as an emergency this week?

I noticed a couple of matches ago, Although I can't recall now which match it was, Longer got an accidental hit to the head in a contest, nothing hard or severe. It didn't get umps attention at the time, nor did any teammates seem concerned. Billy was shaking his head, as if trying to clear himself of blurred vision, for quite a few seconds and didn't follow the play, just stood around for a short time.Trainers didn't come out to him.

At the next few, boundary throw-ins you courld see Billy furiously blinking. as if trying to focus. It was obvious that he had become inconvenienced by the previous innocuous hit to the head. I thought at the time, due to his continual absences with effects of concussions last season, why doesn't he get checked by trainers when he gets a bump to the head, no matter how inconsequential it seems? If I could see it on TV, surely trainers could pick it up.

[kosifantutti]

Billy got a knock in the first half and although he didn't have concussion he wasn't taking in instructions. Bit concerning really given his earlier run of concussions previously. Coaches and runners were passing on tactics and he was basically forgetting them immediately. Doesn't mean an excuse but perhaps a reason. Cleared fully for this week.

I find it disturbing that we left him out there if that's the case.

Although most weeks I give Billy instructions that he totally ignores.

[Jacks Back]

Billy got a knock in the first half and although he didn't have concussion he wasn't taking in instructions. Bit concerning really given his earlier run of concussions previously. Coaches and runners were passing on tactics and he was basically forgetting them immediately. Doesn't mean an excuse but perhaps a reason. Cleared fully for this week.

I find it disturbing that we left him out there if that's the case.

Although most weeks I give Billy instructions that he totally ignores.

So one rule for the number one pick but another for a ruckman just because they don't want to play Tommy or, heaven forbid, Holmes?

[supersaints]

Billy got a knock in the first half and although he didn't have concussion he wasn't taking in instructions. Bit concerning really given his earlier run of concussions previously. Coaches and runners were passing on tactics and he was basically forgetting them immediately. Doesn't mean an excuse but perhaps a reason. Cleared fully for this week.

I find it disturbing that we left him out there if that's the case.

Although most weeks I give Billy instructions that he totally ignores.

So one rule for the number one pick but another for a ruckman just because they don't want to play Tommy or, heaven forbid, Holmes?

Well that's what's likley to happen when you only have 1 ruck in the side compared to three big forwards, Billy passed the test to Be fit for this week... what's so hard to understand