Longer!!!!!

[stonecold]

Beaten by Naismith tonight, and Hickey was amongst the best at Kardinia Park in our win against Geelong.

The gameplan is the problem not individual players.

Not sure what game you watched, 17 hitouts to advantage out.of 47 hitouts!!!!!

Each to their own though!!!!!

[perfectionist]

The only place where we weren't out muscled and beaten for height was in the ruck.

[saintsRrising]

Beaten by Naismith tonight, and Hickey was amongst the best at Kardinia Park in our win against Geelong.

The gameplan is the problem not individual players.

Not sure what game you watched, 17 hitouts to advantage out.of 47 hitouts!!!!!

Each to their own though!!!!!

No positive impact on the game for us though.

[kosifantutti]

He improved slightly in the second half, but still didn't have any impact overhead.

In the first half he had four handballs. One backwards to a player under pressure, two directly to Swans and one over the boundary for a deliberate.

[stonecold]

Oh well, coach and media just gave him the thumbs up, so they are wrong again?????

Nough Said!!!!!

[kosifantutti]

Oh well, coach and media just gave him the thumbs up, so they are wrong again?????

Nough Said!!!!!

In my opinion, yes.

[suss]

Beaten by Naismith tonight, and Hickey was amongst the best at Kardinia Park in our win against Geelong.

The gameplan is the problem not individual players.

Hickey might've gone okay in the VFL but his game last week was the worst games by a St Kilda ruckman I've seen in 20 years.

[samuraisaint]

But we should give players more than one week to get it right, otherwise we shatter their confidence. Battle and Hickey were in our team last week, had one week in and were dropped. This week they are amongst our best in a highly unlikely Sandy win at Geelong.
I think we lost by 7 goals tonight and never looked like winning; not from the first ten minutes. The midfield had all sorts of problems disposing of the ball, particularly into the forward line. We rarely got first purchase of the footy and when we did we turned it over. Do we drop Longer this week? I would hope not.
A lot of inexperienced Swans players looked fantastic tonight and played best ever games, so the coaches' opinions to me at this time are a little suspect.

[The OtherThommo]

I don't recall the exact numbers, but even Richardson made the point Longer gave his mids '1st hands' opportunity advantage by a very wide margin, but the mids butchered the opportunities presented.

And, I emphasise, a 'very wide margin'.

Billy ain't the problem, either.

[magnifisaint]

Billy is progressing nicely. His break out year will come next year. Pretty certain he will end up a very good player.

[samoht]

Longer may have had many more hitouts than his opponent and 17 of his hitouts were to our advantage, but we still lost the clearances by a significant margin!!!

We need ruckmen who get 15 or so kicks around the ground and take 8 or so marks per game - 1 kick and 8 rushed handballs and 1 or 2 marks is not enough - hitouts don't amount to anything much.
I remember Loewe taking 20 or so marks playing in the ruck in one final for us - that's what you call a ruckman.

[Junction Oval]

SAMOHT said :

"Longer may have had many more hitouts than his opponent and even if 17 hitouts of his hitouts may have been to our advantage, but we still lost the clearances by a significant margin!!!
We need ruckmen who get 15 or so kicks around the ground and take 8 or more marks per game - 1 kick and 8 rushed handballs and 1 or 2 marks is not enough - hitouts don't amount to anything much."

Totally Agree.

[whiskers3614]

Not great
BUT
one million miles ahead of where he was a few weeks ago.

2 million miles ahead of our CURRENT second best option!

[stonecold]

Longer may have had many more hitouts than his opponent and 17 of his hitouts were to our advantage, but we still lost the clearances by a significant margin!!!

We need ruckmen who get 15 or so kicks around the ground and take 8 or so marks per game - 1 kick and 8 rushed handballs and 1 or 2 marks is not enough - hitouts don't amount to anything much.
I remember Loewe taking 20 or so marks playing in the ruck in one final for us - that's what you call a ruckman.

In the good old days when rucks used to play loose man a kick behind play, different game now!!!!!

Not being rude, but do you really know what hitouts to advantage means?????

17 hit ours to advantage means, 17 opportunities to our mids, to take average and clear the ball!!!!!

[samoht]

Not being rude, but do you really know what hitouts to advantage means?????

17 hit ours to advantage means, 17 opportunities to our mids, to take average and clear the ball!!!!!

I know what it means and what it has amounted to - significantly more clearances to the opposition (Sydney).
Significantly more hitouts to advantage and hitouts by Longer resulting in significantly less clearances our way.

One stat that is never spoken about, but if we open our eyes we'll notice - and that is that just as many hitouts actually end up going to the oppositions advantage. Watch a game closely and you'll see this for yourself.
hitouts are so random - midfielders and ruckmen are in a high pressure situation, it's never controlled.

Hickey yesterday actually cleared the ball himself about half a dozen times - that's 6 sure clearances vs an advantage which may or may not amount to anything (the advantaged midfielder could be tackled and the ball could be turned over, or they could be caught holding the ball, etc.. - besides, as I said just as many errant hitouts advantage the opposition).
Hickey is injury prone, however - and was useless last week.

[takeaway]

At least this eternal debate will go away next year after Hickey is traded for a 3rd rounder.

[sunsaint]

and if that happens - people will say its no loss, but he will probably go on to competitive career at a successful club like a hawthorn or geelong
In the meantime we will still be playing longer - going into each game one man down because while he might get a statistically competitive HO ratio his lack of presence and effect on the game in general play will continue to hurt us.
The dinosaur is dead
the future is Paddy Ryder and NicNats

[stonecold]

and if that happens - people will say its no loss, but he will probably go on to competitive career at a successful club like a hawthorn or geelong
In the meantime we will still be playing longer - going into each game one man down because while he might get a statistically competitive HO ratio his lack of presence and effect on the game in general play will continue to hurt us.
The dinosaur is dead
the future is Paddy Ryder and NicNats

Entitled to your opinion and good on you, but Billy provides almost more physical presence than any other ruckmen in the game, commonly known fact amongst our players as well as other ruckmen in the AFL!!!!!

Take your point on other points made, but know you got that wrong, that's.ok, I get plenty wrong!!!!!

[Numpty]

and if that happens - people will say its no loss, but he will probably go on to competitive career at a successful club like a hawthorn or geelong
In the meantime we will still be playing longer - going into each game one man down because while he might get a statistically competitive HO ratio his lack of presence and effect on the game in general play will continue to hurt us.
The dinosaur is dead
the future is Paddy Ryder and NicNats

Entitled to your opinion and good on you, but Billy provides almost more physical presence than any other ruckmen in the game, commonly known fact amongst our players as well as other ruckmen in the AFL!!!!!

Take your point on other points made, but know you got that wrong, that's.ok, I get plenty wrong!!!!!

Mr Austin, I agree with you!!!

My friend Andrew Breitbart (and he's a great friend, believe me) is very concerned about this liberal subserversive calling himself 'sunsaint'. Andrew knows right and white. Paddy Ryder and NicNats are not white. So this 'sunsaint' hippy pacifist is not right. Probably not white either. (What kind of a name is 'sunsaint' anyway??? He must be a Mexican illegal, believe me.)

My very good friend Andrew is very concerned, very concerned, believe me! What exactly is this physical presence that Longer carries with him??????????????????? Andrew simply hasn't been able to see anything!!! My very good friends at the FBI think maybe Longer is carrying a concealed handgun? As they have not been able to identify even one single other 'presence'. So this is a major concern, believe me.

(Personally, I hope that Longer has a concealed handgun. That would actually give him some 'presence'. And my very good white friends at the NRA would then be very happy too. Believe me.)

#makingconcealedpresencegrateagain

[sunsaint]

[quote="Numpty"
Mr Austin, I agree with you!!!

My friend Andrew Breitbart (and he's a great friend, believe me) is very concerned about this liberal subserversive calling himself 'sunsaint'. Andrew knows right and white. Paddy Ryder and NicNats are not white. So this 'sunsaint' hippy pacifist is not right. Probably not white either. (What kind of a name is 'sunsaint' anyway??? He must be a Mexican illegal, believe me.)

My very good friend Andrew is very concerned, very concerned, believe me! What exactly is this physical presence that Longer carries with him??????????????????? Andrew simply hasn't been able to see anything!!! My very good friends at the FBI think maybe Longer is carrying a concealed handgun? As they have not been able to identify even one single other 'presence'. So this is a major concern, believe me.

(Personally, I hope that Longer has a concealed handgun. That would actually give him some 'presence'. And my very good white friends at the NRA would then be very happy too. Believe me.)

#makingconcealedpresencegrateagain[/quote]
chatting to Brietbart? - how is temperature down there in hell - Mexican? you must be geologically challenged as Im very north of the boarder
anyway I see what you did there - and no I didnt even realise myself regarding the names I put forward, so best that you could accuse me of is subliminal imprinting
because as you well know - once you go Nicnat you dont go back

[sunsaint]

The dinosaur is dead
the future is Paddy Ryder and NicNats

Entitled to your opinion and good on you, but Billy provides almost more physical presence than any other ruckmen in the game, commonly known fact amongst our players as well as other ruckmen in the AFL!!!!!

Take your point on other points made, but know you got that wrong, that's.ok, I get plenty wrong!!!!!

I know there is a whole other thread about his poor performance and I will leave that lie
however two points:
Hickey was slammed and dropped after one similar game
and
do you still think that Longer is the future in comparison?

[stonecold]

Hickey's game the other week was nothing similar to Billy's on Sat, Hickey played one of the worst games ever seen at the level, no contest, nothing, pathetic effort, full stop!!!!!

Billy at very worst provides physicality, at worst, mid-fielders need that as a minimum, Hickey doesn't give that at all!!!!!

I believe the fact that Billy had no or very little assistance(Bruce) didn't help he's cause going against both Ryder (AA, this year in my opinion) and Trengrove (one of the best back-up ruckmen in the AFL), he pretty much ran out of petrol tickets, so the non selection of Marshall didn't help our cause!!!!!

In terms of Billy, he is quite clearly the clubs best ruck option at present, that's the message those in the know are sending by playing him!!!!!

Our opinions, yours, mine and everyone else's on here count for squat at the end of the day, so we can argue our points all day long, means nothing!!!!!

Billy will grow and develop from here, that's what I know!!!!!

[spert]

One thing the coach needs to teach our midfield is how to rove to a losing ruck. We don't do it well at all.

[takeaway]

One thing the coach needs to teach our midfield is how to rove to a losing ruck. We don't do it well at all.

Why would we always want to rove to the opposition ruck?

[sunsaint]

One thing the coach needs to teach our midfield is how to rove to a losing ruck. We don't do it well at all.

this is the burning issue tho
Against sydney - Stonecold would argue that Longer won the ruck contest - but we got smashed in the clearances
Against PA - Longer got whacked by Ryder in the contest and around the ground - but we won clearances
thats my point about dinosaurs - you immediately go into a game one onballer down