A well coached team

[WellardSaint]

We are a very sloppy team and have been all year, even in all of our good wins this year we have been sloppy.
Sloppy with all aspects of our game including our skills and decision making.
We are definitely not a well drilled unit.

I think it's the first time I've seen a comment from you in that tone.
Unbelievable.

[Johnny Member]

Tonight shows the value of experience in these circumstances. I'm sure when leading by 10 points with 54 seconds on the clock, the presence of the likes of Roo, Joey and Gilbo, would've been invaluable. Their organising of structures, marshalling of the troops and leadership would've prevented the last goal at least.

Yes the last goal was very poor. Longer was destroyed, Gray ran around then away from Ross and Billings attempt to cover was insipid.

Most things Billings does appear insipid.

Tackling, goal kicking, chasing.


Not sure what's going on There.

[spert]

Tonight shows the value of experience in these circumstances. I'm sure when leading by 10 points with 54 seconds on the clock, the presence of the likes of Roo, Joey and Gilbo, would've been invaluable. Their organising of structures, marshalling of the troops and leadership would've prevented the last goal at least.

Yes the last goal was very poor. Longer was destroyed, Gray ran around then away from Ross and Billings attempt to cover was insipid.

Most things Billings does appear insipid.

Tackling, goal kicking, chasing.


Not sure what's going on There.

A lack of urgency from a few players when the game was there to be won in the last 5 mins.

[Johnny Member]

Tonight shows the value of experience in these circumstances. I'm sure when leading by 10 points with 54 seconds on the clock, the presence of the likes of Roo, Joey and Gilbo, would've been invaluable. Their organising of structures, marshalling of the troops and leadership would've prevented the last goal at least.

Yes the last goal was very poor. Longer was destroyed, Gray ran around then away from Ross and Billings attempt to cover was insipid.

Most things Billings does appear insipid.

Tackling, goal kicking, chasing.


Not sure what's going on There.

A lack of urgency from a few players when the game was there to be won in the last 5 mins.

Acres' effort in the contest that let their 2nd last goal through was appalling.

[Johnny Member]

We are a very sloppy team and have been all year, even in all of our good wins this year we have been sloppy.
Sloppy with all aspects of our game including our skills and decision making.
We are definitely not a well drilled unit.

Agreed.


I've said it before, that our scores almost seem to come by accident. Coming out of defence is rudderless, and moving the ball forward is haphazard and sloppy.


To be honest though, I still can't quite determine how much is coaching, and how much is talent.

[Yorkeys]

Just looked at the post match presser and got the impression Richo is now particularly cross - as if he has given certain players ( & coaches) a lot of support and suddenly realised he hasn't/won't/can't be repaid and has to rethink structures. (Yes I am a mind reader). Gresh can no longer safely dine out on his wonder goal against Geelong last year and needs to do bread and butter moves efficiently, Steele is not the injection of mid field class he was recruited for, Weller is as keen as mustard but for all his energy and charisma is not effective enough and can't kick for goal to save himself; when exhaustion kicks in late in quarters there is no Horatius so need to develop strong minds on each line. Billings is Billings and can't be expected to tackle like Richie McCaw so don't have him as your last defensive hope. Lonie is too small at the moment. Cotton wool has to come off Paddy. Also realises the team has plenty of potential, is developing (arguable) but can't afford so many weak links and must develop its forward craft. One year to go on the contract so will get the drawing board back out on the plane home - if it can get through security. I expect significant changes and not to lose games when leading by 10 points with 54 secs to go.

[Johnny Member]

I think too much focus is on the 'how did we lose when we were 10 points up with 54 seconds left' thing.

It happens way too much in footy to way too many different teams for it to be such a disastrous thing to happen. I mean, it's already happened about 10 times this year!


The previous 80 minutes is the bigger concern!

[SuperSaint]

We are a very sloppy team and have been all year, even in all of our good wins this year we have been sloppy.
Sloppy with all aspects of our game including our skills and decision making.
We are definitely not a well drilled unit.

Agreed.


I've said it before, that our scores almost seem to come by accident. Coming out of defence is rudderless, and moving the ball forward is haphazard and sloppy.


To be honest though, I still can't quite determine how much is coaching, and how much is talent.

I also concur with Jaxons comment and good on him for posting this. I watched the last 10 minutes again after the loss and I won't again single out who was pathetic at defending that lead, it shows clearly. If this club ever wants to become like a Hawthorn, for example, it needs to stop making excuses for mediocrity. Kennett is a cunning but clever man and openly bagged aspects of the club while they were building and they did not implode. It worked in their favour as it forced them to address their deficiencies and they won 3 flags in a row. There are a number of players at our club whio have gone backwards or have not come on. No excuses given the draft picks we've had since our demise in 2011. Hawks will probably get there before us again. O'Meara hasn't come on as yet but Mitchell is an absolute beauty and the type of player we needed. We are crying out for hard physical players who can also kick goals and have got the complete opposite.

[older saint]

Using the logic from the OP then please explain how many pundits are saying Damien Hardwick is coach of the year ? Coaches can teach structures, practise structures but at the end of the day in the moment it is up to the players to execute and organise these structures. There was no player out the back in cover and too much space between the contest and the 50 metre line. Yes longer needed to keep the ball forward but the set up was wrong. This is a player organisation thing - Steven, Roberton, Ross, Weller, Geary the on field leaders need to take responsibility no the coach.
Blame the coach is a weak , easy cop out. What would be said had we created another contest and the siren went -Richo a genius for the last quarter over run.
Game was lost kicking 3.12 , an issue which is a year long issue and clearly something the skills coaching department need to change because if as they say they work on it, whatever they are doing isn't working.

At some point players need to take responsibility

[tglennisback]

Billings kicks straight in this game and all the others where he sprays them around when taking easy shots in front of goals and we're in the top 4. Who's our sport psychologist?

[saintsRrising]

Last 2 minutes. And this week suddenly no Roo, Joey, Gilbert...

Ignore their playing ability, but it is known that all are on field leaders that general the players.

[saynta]

i hate criticising this Captain just doesnt have the skills or the common nouse to be a long term Captain

Yes tried very hard..................but that is not enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had 8 of our top 25 players out injured.

[Johnny Member]

Last 2 minutes. And this week suddenly no Roo, Joey, Gilbert...

Ignore their playing ability, but it is known that all are on field leaders that general the players.

FWIW, we may not have been within 5 goals of Port if those 3 were in the team though.

We can't play all 3 of them. I think last night showed what the way forward is.

[dals_da_bomb]

Im not going to watch the replay - i dont need that kind of negativity in my life.

But im sure I saw Richo have a slight rage yesterday on the tv coverage. TOTALLY out of character i thought -- and I LOVED IT.

As someone prone to rage myself I really enjoyed seeing him unpleased.

I havent yet watched the presser - but if it is as Yorkeys says i will.

[jaxons]

We are a very sloppy team and have been all year, even in all of our good wins this year we have been sloppy.
Sloppy with all aspects of our game including our skills and decision making.
We are definitely not a well drilled unit.

I think it's the first time I've seen a comment from you in that tone.
Unbelievable.

You are right Wellard and on reflection probably not great form but I think we were all a little emotional after the game yesterday.
Standing by my comments however that we are a sloppy team.
Our effort is generally very good so we also are doing lots right, but our sloppiness and disorganisation in terms of structure, plus our reluctance to play direct football are things that if the current group of coaches cannot instil into our players then we will head nowhere with this group of players.

[WellardSaint]

Billings kicks straight in this game and all the others where he sprays them around when taking easy shots in front of goals and we're in the top 4. Who's our sport psychologist?

Mark Spargo is the shrink.
https://au.linkedin.com/in/markspargo

Divides his time between the Saints and Men's National Water Polo Team.

[saintsRrising]

Last 2 minutes. And this week suddenly no Roo, Joey, Gilbert...

Ignore their playing ability, but it is known that all are on field leaders that general the players.

FWIW, we may not have been within 5 goals of Port if those 3 were in the team though.

We can't play all 3 of them. I think last night showed what the way forward is.

Indeed. I as I have posted want to keep playing youth at present. It is all about 2018+ now.

But in those last two minutes our younger players will have learnt that they did to adjust to the stage of the game.

2 minutes to go at the bounces and while Acres is guarding the corridor, he is also completely by himself meaning that a port players was free.

Seconds to go and Dunstan and Billings are both watching the tap to try to win the ball, and both then have Gray run past them. If they had of been watching the Port Players then they both could have impeded Gray. Lesson there is that their role should have been to stop Port winning, rather than to try and win the ball.

Now Dunstan had had a great game. But he will have now belatedly learnt from that final play.

[SuperSaint]

Last 2 minutes. And this week suddenly no Roo, Joey, Gilbert...

Ignore their playing ability, but it is known that all are on field leaders that general the players.

FWIW, we may not have been within 5 goals of Port if those 3 were in the team though.

We can't play all 3 of them. I think last night showed what the way forward is.

Indeed. I as I have posted want to keep playing youth at present. It is all about 2018+ now.

But in those last two minutes our younger players will have learnt that they did to adjust to the stage of the game.

2 minutes to go at the bounces and while Acres is guarding the corridor, he is also completely by himself meaning that a port players was free.

Seconds to go and Dunstan and Billings are both watching the tap to try to win the ball, and both then have Gray run past them. If they had of been watching the Port Players then they both could have impeded Gray. Lesson there is that their role should have been to stop Port winning, rather than to try and win the ball.

Now Dunstan had had a great game. But he will have now belatedly learnt from that final play.

Dunstan was clearly our best and yes could have done better but geez he was never the one with the speed to nullify Gray anyway and he was one of the main reasons we stayed in the game. Billings, on the other hand, always plays like that and cost us another goal earllier in the last quarter near the half forward line, where he failed to lock down or dare I say win the ball himself. Port took it away all too easy and kicked a goal.

[magnifisaint]

Richo is a hack. Next year will be another wasted year if we don't sack him. Sadly we won't.

If you have any brains have a look at our history and then make an informed decision!

[Teflon]

We are a very sloppy team and have been all year, even in all of our good wins this year we have been sloppy.
Sloppy with all aspects of our game including our skills and decision making.
We are definitely not a well drilled unit.

I think it's the first time I've seen a comment from you in that tone.
Unbelievable.

You are right Wellard and on reflection probably not great form but I think we were all a little emotional after the game yesterday.
Standing by my comments however that we are a sloppy team.
Our effort is generally very good so we also are doing lots right, but our sloppiness and disorganisation in terms of structure, plus our reluctance to play direct football are things that if the current group of coaches cannot instil into our players then we will head nowhere with this group of players.

Good call on the indirectness
Killed us against Swabs when EVERYONE was saying don't play wide up there.... but we do
We lack structure, cohesive ball movement and the ability to hang tough when sides get on a roll
Not to mention some AGrade midfield class and some great ball users
We still carry to many plodders with "potential" .....

[PremiershipSaint]

Richo is a hack. Next year will be another wasted year if we don't sack him. Sadly we won't.

If you have any brains have a look at our history and then make an informed decision!

Yes I know we have a history of picking poor coaches.

[loris]

Im not going to watch the replay - i dont need that kind of negativity in my life.

But im sure I saw Richo have a slight rage yesterday on the tv coverage. TOTALLY out of character i thought -- and I LOVED IT.

As someone prone to rage myself I really enjoyed seeing him unpleased.

I havent yet watched the presser - but if it is as Yorkeys says i will.

Richo's display of 'negative emotion' was at one of Acres' dumb plays. He even appeared to use the 'F' word. Richo grabbed his headset, was positively yelling and pointing instructions to person on end of the line. He really went off - person sitting next to him looked a bit non-plussed at his outburst.
Then Rico quickly composed himself, then the camera went off him. I don't think the TV producer wanted an image of a calm Richo, only angry Richo - makes better viewing!!!

[WellardSaint]

We are a very sloppy team and have been all year, even in all of our good wins this year we have been sloppy.
Sloppy with all aspects of our game including our skills and decision making.
We are definitely not a well drilled unit.

I think it's the first time I've seen a comment from you in that tone.
Unbelievable.

You are right Wellard and on reflection probably not great form but I think we were all a little emotional after the game yesterday.
Standing by my comments however that we are a sloppy team.
Our effort is generally very good so we also are doing lots right, but our sloppiness and disorganisation in terms of structure, plus our reluctance to play direct football are things that if the current group of coaches cannot instil into our players then we will head nowhere with this group of players.

I wasn't being critical at all;
just saying that as an In The Know, you and tony74 have always put the politician's spin on your words
I agree that we are sloppy, even in our wins, and the goals seem to be more good fortune than good play.
Having Weller collide into Acres seems like something that happens in a Ted Whitten tribute match, not AFL.
Or when I used to play social footy when I was younger, just a kick and giggle affair.
Its fantastic to have effort, but sloppy won't win games.
Imagine a bricklayer who never stops for lunch and can lay more bricks than his workmates, but they're all uneven.
That's just insane.

[Devilhead]

Wow plenty of emotional posting alright!

I was a little peed off last night but after cooling my jets it was quite plain to see that if we actually held on and won that game everyone would have been saying that it was one of our most gutsiest wins of the season - away to a likely top 4 side at one of the hardest grounds in the league to win at

But no no no - we are hopeless, sack the frickin coach, get rid of players, burn the recruitment team, yada yada yada ........

Think we all need to take a long calm intake of air and clear our heads

The side we put out yesterday was the 2nd youngest in the league this week and realistically we were never going to challenge for the Premiership this year - as it stands we are still developing and we have a massive, ginormous, gargantuan war chest ready to splurge.

Jaxons is quite right when he says that we are sloppy and indirect, however the more these guys play games together the more well drilled they will become and as they get older the more their bodies will hardened to the rigors of playing AFL - yesterday we saw the future of the St Kilda footy club and with the right development there is light at the end of the tunnel - add some mid field creme through the war chest and sort out our forward line woes and things start to look pretty good

That said the AFL competition is so tight these days - as a previous poster pointed out - with a bit of luck we could nearly be in the top 4

As it stands we can still make finals if we win our final 4 games and get a little % boost - all games to come are winnable and we are coming from an apparently impossible position which is dangerous for other sides above us - West Coast are beatable in Melbourne, Dees have lost Hogan, North are definitely beatable and then there is the Tigers

Roo is likely to come back in and so will will Stevens and maybe Gilbert however I hope we persist with White over the next 4 games as he seems to have much needed skill and composure

Guys like DMac need more games - he has a lot of great tools to work with but needs to play more at a senior level to help with composure and confidence

Lonie has a few tricks but his size and strength is a big worry

Lastly to sack Richo would be the most stupidest moves I could think of - a huge step backwards ....... who to say the next coach would be any good anyway?

No we need to stay the course with Richo but I agree he probably needs better back up in the box

[samuraisaint]

I think too much focus is on the 'how did we lose when we were 10 points up with 54 seconds left' thing.

It happens way too much in footy to way too many different teams for it to be such a disastrous thing to happen. I mean, it's already happened about 10 times this year!


The previous 80 minutes is the bigger concern!

Now this is spot on. In 2017 you cannot expect to win any game where you have kicked 2.12 up to a minute before three quarter time. Players do need to be dropped for that. Missing regulation shots form 20-30 metres right in front, or on slight angles is an absolute season killer.
If we kick even remotely like that next week West Coast will take full advantage of it. I think we'll win next week, but those guys who can't finish in front of goal need some time at the Zebras to work on their deficiencies.