Scott Watters - share your stories!

[Sainternist]

Didn't Luke Ball and Max Hudghton have huge wraps on Scott Watters?

Perhaps Watters worked better as an assistant coach.

[stjohnc]

Didn't Luke Ball and Max Hudghton have huge wraps on Scott Watters?

Max did the renovations on Watters house

[White Winmar]

Clearly the Board rated him as they gave him the job.
So he cant have been all bad. Someone liked and rated him.

That'd be Michael Nettlefold who didn't have a clue. He'd made a mess of the Lyon contract and was reamed by Lyon. So then he interviews Richo & Hinkley who told him a rebuild was in order, then Watters who told him what he wanted to hear, that we were a juggernaut! So based on that and the fact that he was an Assistant (although not a main one) at a Premiership team, ticked two boxes for Nettlefold. It could have been worse, thank god Melbourne had already snapped up Mark Neeld!

Just another act of idiocy from the second highest paid CEO in the League at the time.

It would be interesting if those who selected Watters over Hinkley and AR were to give their reasons for doing so. In the modern recruiting environment, personality flaws are getting harder to hide, especially when the process is as torturous as that when it comes to picking an AFL coach. Given coaches at the time were earning around $700K on average, the firm hired to run the process and make the recommended selection would be pocketing between $70K and $140K for the privilege of doing so, you'd hope that they didn't recommend Watters. Unfortunately, Linton Lodger is probably right.

I have no evidence, but I get an uneasy feeling that Nettlefold probably made a captain's call to the Board. Just because someone is recommended, doesn't mean the organisation will ultimately choose them. Same goes in recruiting players. In the end, the call needs to be made by someone and then the Board has to ratify that decision. I've seen some howlers in my time in terms of poor senior appointments, both in the private and public sectors. I remember the recent story of the manager and senior engineer on a major state government construction job. He was in charge for 18 months and the project was a disaster. Turns out the manager wasn't a very good manager, nor was he an engineer! Seems he'd pulled the same stunt in Canada and the U.K. Another $360K per year well spent! It happens.

If AR had been appointed in the first place, perhaps we'd be challenging already. The Watters / Pelchen / Nettlefold "Trinity" set us back a fair way. Ah, Mickey Nettlefold. A bit like herpes. The gift that keeps on giving. First, he lost the second most successful coach in our history (very careless), then he compounded the problem by hiring one of the worst coaches in our history. As another Malthouse disciple, surely Mark Neeld should have been warning enough. He and Scotty were accused of eerily similar behaviours towards the players. In the end, we got AR, who rightly told the board he wasn't going through the process again. I often wonder what would've happened if AR got picked first, or if Luke Beveridge had been considered experienced enough for the gig.

It's interesting isn't it. I disagree on one point. As you're aware my background is in mental health and a decade in, I've learned that even the worst candidates... the narcissistic, sociopathic etc are often just as, if not even more so, capable excelling in even the most stringent interview process.

The reality is doing the job and talking about how to do the job are two vastly separate things and excelling at one does not in anyway suggest that you're capable of the other.

I agree, skeptic. It's one of the narcissist's greatest skills. Using superficial charm and verbal skills to fool others. The job interview is still the least effective way to predict future performance. About 15 % effective, yet it's still used as a major way of choosing the successful applicants. Sociopaths and narcissists often rise to the top because they are ruthless, focused on their own success, use others for their own ends and have delusions of grandeur. It's also why mediocrity often rises in large organisations. Thankfully, they tend to move around a lot, from job to job, as they rarely succeed long term in one position as they are eventually found out. Sounds a bit like Scott Watters, doesn't it?

[stjohnc]

Scott Watters was renting the unit in Brighton next door to the unit we (myself and my 2 sons, all ardent Saints supporters) were working on (4 unit complex)
Talked to him one morning about the units, and I didn’t recognise him as he was wearing a cap and sunnies. It wasn’t till later when the owner of the 3rd unit there told me that “Scott Watters lives there”
Blew me away that I didn’t recognise him and I copped a fair bit of ribbing from my sons
I did apologise to Scotty later for not recognising him and he laughed it off
Got to talk to him only a few times as he was off early to the club and back late
Lovely family and his youngest son was footy mad and loved having a kick with us in the morning before school
His wife was a ripping lady and very supportive of Scotty and said that if anyone could lift the club then Scotty was the man
They’d just bought a house in Brighton, Max Hudgeon was doing the reno’s and we went there to quote on some work. Scotty was there cleaning the pool and we chatted for quite a while about the saints and football and he was very dedicated and had big aspirations for the team. Was very genuine if not a little shy. Also told us that Jaeger O’meara was going to be a star
Surprised me when he got the flick, and we never got the job
Didn't appear to me to be a narcissist

[Ellaandjohn]

Nice guy and a good coach


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[satchmo]

Perfect replacement for buckley.

[ace]

According to the St Kilda F.C constitution, Waters is ineligible to be coach because he was born in Canada so a Canadian citizen and never renounced that citizenship.

[White Winmar]

Scott Watters was renting the unit in Brighton next door to the unit we (myself and my 2 sons, all ardent Saints supporters) were working on (4 unit complex)
Talked to him one morning about the units, and I didn’t recognise him as he was wearing a cap and sunnies. It wasn’t till later when the owner of the 3rd unit there told me that “Scott Watters lives there”
Blew me away that I didn’t recognise him and I copped a fair bit of ribbing from my sons
I did apologise to Scotty later for not recognising him and he laughed it off
Got to talk to him only a few times as he was off early to the club and back late
Lovely family and his youngest son was footy mad and loved having a kick with us in the morning before school
His wife was a ripping lady and very supportive of Scotty and said that if anyone could lift the club then Scotty was the man
They’d just bought a house in Brighton, Max Hudgeon was doing the reno’s and we went there to quote on some work. Scotty was there cleaning the pool and we chatted for quite a while about the saints and football and he was very dedicated and had big aspirations for the team. Was very genuine if not a little shy. Also told us that Jaeger O’meara was going to be a star
Surprised me when he got the flick, and we never got the job
Didn't appear to me to be a narcissist

And that's the major skill of a true narcissist. Superficial charm. You don't find out until it's too late. His behaviour at the saints, his short tenure and the nature of his departure fit the profile perfectly.

[White Winmar]

If I hadn't heard it with my own ears, I'd have thought someone was having a lend of me, BUT.... he actually said it! Dermot Brereton on SEN, a day or so after Watters' dismissal: "I've known many, many blokes in footy, but to me, I've only known two with great football brains..... they are Yabby Jeans and Scotty Watters"

Now I know many folk think Dermie to be an inarticulate person, but ( for mine ) his eloquence on that occasion was SUPERB...... in describing the iq of himself and Watters!

I wonder what Leigh Matthews, Alistair Clarkson, Ron Barassi, John Kennedy Senior, David Parkin, et al think of that statement? I know it's his opinion but seriously Derm, you might want to rethink that.

[SaintPav]

Coffee with Mick. Sounds like a mutual admiration society.



Reading between the lines there appeared some discontent with the new forward set up and Nick's role.

[SaintPav]

If I hadn't heard it with my own ears, I'd have thought someone was having a lend of me, BUT.... he actually said it! Dermot Brereton on SEN, a day or so after Watters' dismissal: "I've known many, many blokes in footy, but to me, I've only known two with great football brains..... they are Yabby Jeans and Scotty Watters"

Now I know many folk think Dermie to be an inarticulate person, but ( for mine ) his eloquence on that occasion was SUPERB...... in describing the iq of himself and Watters!

I wonder what Leigh Matthews, Alistair Clarkson, Ron Barassi, John Kennedy Senior, David Parkin, et al think of that statement? I know it's his opinion but seriously Derm, you might want to rethink that.

Watters had such a great footy brain that he can't get back into the AFL system.

Genius.

[SaintPav]

Coffee with Mick. Sounds like a mutual admiration society.



Reading between the lines there appeared some discontent with the new forward set up and Nick's role.

These two, particularly Mick talking up St. Kilda; it just sounds wrong.

[saynta]

Didn't Luke Ball and Max Hudghton have huge wraps on Scott Watters?

Probably wanted to see the arse end of him.

[WellardSaint]

Scott Watters was renting the unit in Brighton next door to the unit we (myself and my 2 sons, all ardent Saints supporters) were working on (4 unit complex)
Talked to him one morning about the units, and I didn’t recognise him as he was wearing a cap and sunnies. It wasn’t till later when the owner of the 3rd unit there told me that “Scott Watters lives there”
Blew me away that I didn’t recognise him and I copped a fair bit of ribbing from my sons
I did apologise to Scotty later for not recognising him and he laughed it off
Got to talk to him only a few times as he was off early to the club and back late
Lovely family and his youngest son was footy mad and loved having a kick with us in the morning before school
His wife was a ripping lady and very supportive of Scotty and said that if anyone could lift the club then Scotty was the man
They’d just bought a house in Brighton, Max Hudgeon was doing the reno’s and we went there to quote on some work. Scotty was there cleaning the pool and we chatted for quite a while about the saints and football and he was very dedicated and had big aspirations for the team. Was very genuine if not a little shy. Also told us that Jaeger O’meara was going to be a star
Surprised me when he got the flick, and we never got the job
Didn't appear to me to be a narcissist

And that's the major skill of a true narcissist. Superficial charm. You don't find out until it's too late. His behaviour at the saints, his short tenure and the nature of his departure fit the profile perfectly.

+1.

It's hard to get a true picture of someone's nature just in several occasions of contact under ideal circumstances.
During my working life, I've spoken to people from other departments away from the workplace, at company functions etc, and often got a great opinion of them.
However, later on, speak to their underlings and colleagues, and you get a better picture of their true nature in the workplace.
However, later on in workplace matters, I got some real eye-openers.
When I had to deal with these "nice chaps" on work matters, wow what a huge difference in behaviour and attitude.

In support of what WW says, a narcissist quickly develops the tool of masking their nature, and will only display great behaviours under perfect conditions where their true attitudes and nature can be hidden safely.
Charm opens doors for them.

My ex-partner's father is a narcissist. He lives 5 hours drive away, and during the very first drive to meet him and spend an Easter at his house, my ex instructed me in his nature.
She'd booked a motel for a day either side of Easter due to an expected clash that she anticipated (which had me bemused- he sounds like a nice bloke on the phone and email!).
Well, he turned on the charm, as 12 other relatives came to visit as well.
On a few occasions that weekend, I did get a glimpse of the devil behind the showman.
When there was some family issues come to the fore, well after Easter, I really saw why my ex was loathe to drive down there more than once a year to visit.

[Linton Lodger]

Clearly the Board rated him as they gave him the job.
So he cant have been all bad. Someone liked and rated him.

That'd be Michael Nettlefold who didn't have a clue. He'd made a mess of the Lyon contract and was reamed by Lyon. So then he interviews Richo & Hinkley who told him a rebuild was in order, then Watters who told him what he wanted to hear, that we were a juggernaut! So based on that and the fact that he was an Assistant (although not a main one) at a Premiership team, ticked two boxes for Nettlefold. It could have been worse, thank god Melbourne had already snapped up Mark Neeld!

Just another act of idiocy from the second highest paid CEO in the League at the time.

It would be interesting if those who selected Watters over Hinkley and AR were to give their reasons for doing so. In the modern recruiting environment, personality flaws are getting harder to hide, especially when the process is as torturous as that when it comes to picking an AFL coach. Given coaches at the time were earning around $700K on average, the firm hired to run the process and make the recommended selection would be pocketing between $70K and $140K for the privilege of doing so, you'd hope that they didn't recommend Watters. Unfortunately, Linton Lodger is probably right.

I have no evidence, but I get an uneasy feeling that Nettlefold probably made a captain's call to the Board. Just because someone is recommended, doesn't mean the organisation will ultimately choose them. Same goes in recruiting players. In the end, the call needs to be made by someone and then the Board has to ratify that decision. I've seen some howlers in my time in terms of poor senior appointments, both in the private and public sectors. I remember the recent story of the manager and senior engineer on a major state government construction job. He was in charge for 18 months and the project was a disaster. Turns out the manager wasn't a very good manager, nor was he an engineer! Seems he'd pulled the same stunt in Canada and the U.K. Another $360K per year well spent! It happens.

If AR had been appointed in the first place, perhaps we'd be challenging already. The Watters / Pelchen / Nettlefold "Trinity" set us back a fair way. Ah, Mickey Nettlefold. A bit like herpes. The gift that keeps on giving. First, he lost the second most successful coach in our history (very careless), then he compounded the problem by hiring one of the worst coaches in our history. As another Malthouse disciple, surely Mark Neeld should have been warning enough. He and Scotty were accused of eerily similar behaviours towards the players. In the end, we got AR, who rightly told the board he wasn't going through the process again. I often wonder what would've happened if AR got picked first, or if Luke Beveridge had been considered experienced enough for the gig.

Don't know the precise mechanics of it all, however I did hear at the time, that in his interview Watters indicated we didn't need a rebuild. I'm taking a shrewd guess that got him the job.

[spert]

I guess in the end, Watters can have a smile, sit back and count his $500K, as he came from a premiership club as an assistant coach, and came to a club of chronic failure and although he knows a bit about footy, he obviously wasn't prepared for the ego attack that was about to hit him between the eyes. I reckon his mates might have warned him to think twice before he took the job in the first place.

[outside66]

The ONLY good thing Watters did for the Saints was put games early into the likes of Webster, Newnes, and Ross. Farren Ray described him as a 'shocking bloke'

[SaintPav]

I guess in the end, Watters can have a smile, sit back and count his $500K, as he came from a premiership club as an assistant coach, and came to a club of chronic failure and although he knows a bit about footy, he obviously wasn't prepared for the ego attack that was about to hit him between the eyes. I reckon his mates might have warned him to think twice before he took the job in the first place.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

Even Mark Neeld got a gig as an assistant but Watters couldn't get back in the system.

[sunsaint]

I guess in the end, Watters can have a smile, sit back and count his $500K, as he came from a premiership club as an assistant coach, and came to a club of chronic failure and although he knows a bit about footy, he obviously wasn't prepared for the ego attack that was about to hit him between the eyes. I reckon his mates might have warned him to think twice before he took the job in the first place.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

Even Mark Neeld got a gig as an assistant but Watters couldn't get back in the system.

Not sure that indicates anything at all
Malcolm Blight never coached again after getting sacked by the saints

[satchmo]

I guess in the end, Watters can have a smile, sit back and count his $500K, as he came from a premiership club as an assistant coach, and came to a club of chronic failure and although he knows a bit about footy, he obviously wasn't prepared for the ego attack that was about to hit him between the eyes. I reckon his mates might have warned him to think twice before he took the job in the first place.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

Even Mark Neeld got a gig as an assistant but Watters couldn't get back in the system.

Not sure that indicates anything at all
Malcolm Blight never coached again after getting sacked by the saints

Neeld is a fair comparison.
You seriously comparing watters to Blight?

[SaintPav]

I guess in the end, Watters can have a smile, sit back and count his $500K, as he came from a premiership club as an assistant coach, and came to a club of chronic failure and although he knows a bit about footy, he obviously wasn't prepared for the ego attack that was about to hit him between the eyes. I reckon his mates might have warned him to think twice before he took the job in the first place.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

Even Mark Neeld got a gig as an assistant but Watters couldn't get back in the system.

Not sure that indicates anything at all
Malcolm Blight never coached again after getting sacked by the saints

You seriously comparing watters to Blight?

Exactly Satchmo.

Different age bracket for starters. Blight coached at 2 clubs before he got to the Saints.

Wrong anyway, Blight involved with the Gold Coast.

Watters is a dud with a small man syndrome.

[thejiggingsaint]

I guess in the end, Watters can have a smile, sit back and count his $500K, as he came from a premiership club as an assistant coach, and came to a club of chronic failure and although he knows a bit about footy, he obviously wasn't prepared for the ego attack that was about to hit him between the eyes. I reckon his mates might have warned him to think twice before he took the job in the first place.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

Even Mark Neeld got a gig as an assistant but Watters couldn't get back in the system.

Not sure that indicates anything at all
Malcolm Blight never coached again after getting sacked by the saints

You seriously comparing watters to Blight?

Exactly Satchmo.

Different age bracket for starters. Blight coached at 2 clubs before he got to the Saints.

Wrong anyway, Blight involved with the Gold Coast.

Watters is a dud with a small man syndrome.

But other than that, is a brick!

[sunsaint]

Wrong anyway, Blight involved with the Gold Coast.

Watters is a dud with a small man syndrome.

Blight was involved with the Suns at the board level before he took it on himself to become the Coach "advisor" (which a few melbourne clubs had implemented the role in the past)
Watters was invloved in some very successful sides before coming to the saints as was Blight.
Blight was always considered a maverick coach who pulled no punches in his treatment of players and methods.
The point is: your opinion of his expertise that Watters is a dud because he's never had another coaching position is simply irrelevant conclusion.

[SaintPav]

Wrong anyway, Blight involved with the Gold Coast.

Watters is a dud with a small man syndrome.

Blight was involved with the Suns at the board level before he took it on himself to become the Coach "advisor" (which a few melbourne clubs had implemented the role in the past)
Watters was invloved in some very successful sides before coming to the saints as was Blight.
Blight was always considered a maverick coach who pulled no punches in his treatment of players and methods.
The point is: your opinion of his expertise that Watters is a dud because he's never had another coaching position is simply irrelevant conclusion.

It's not irrelevant at all; it's an indicator of his behavioural issues and his reputation in the AFL industry.

Comparing Blight to Watters is a logical fallacy (false comparison).

Watters wasn't smart enough to get buy in from the senior players. The rest would have taken care of itself.

Leadership 101.

In fact, he did the opposite as well as pissing off the CEO, the President and the entire board who were forced to sack him after he was given multiple warnings to keep within his stated parameters and to pull his head in.

Hence, he was a dud.

You're free to think he was a great coach.

[sunsaint]

Hence, he was a dud.

You're free to think he was a great coach.

Ahhh you eventually fell for it - at no point did I claim him to be a great coach
For many of the exact same reasons I don't think Lyon is a great coach...
But that's a whole nother thread