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If you're gonna pot someone, it really helps if you can string 'em together.The Recruit wrote:Billy is embarrassing
Hickey is a much better footballer...Longer is unfortunately and Ponger
Tick.carn_sainter wrote:perfectionist wrote:Michael Gardiner has been the best ruckman we have had in the last 20 years. Had he not done his hammy in the first quarter of GF1, then who knows what might have happened in the last quarter. Before him, Lazar Vidovic was the best in the previous 20 years - and we know what happened to him in the last five minutes of the last H&A game in 1997. Before him, Brian Mynott was our best ruckman, a serviceable player who got better with age and was a Vic representative late in his career, and did what was required in the 1966 GF. Billy does a good job in the ruck and is easily our best option at the moment. We need someone who is 210 cm tall, skilled on both sides and with the pace of Nick Winmar. Should be an easy pick up.
Good post, but i think you're neglecting to mention Peter Spider Everitt who, despite being labelled the ratty Frankston youth he may or may not have been, was an absolute gun. If i could resurrect an ex saints ruckman to join the team now, I'd take Spider
maybe he's on the same shite that brought WW to his knees, what is that shite, it's obviously quite potent.The OtherThommo wrote:If you're gonna pot someone, it really helps if you can string 'em together.The Recruit wrote:Billy is embarrassing
Hickey is a much better footballer...Longer is unfortunately and Ponger
Kinda "embarrassing" if ya can't.
"Longer is unfortunately and Ponger" - Jesus wept.
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.IluvHarvey wrote:I just don't see it.
Yes he gives 100% all the time but what I see is his 100% is not up to standard.
I still believe we have a better future with Hickey as he gives more around the ground.
Saying that Hickey comes with his own areas that aren't up to standard but a better option in my opinion.
The OtherThommo wrote:Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.IluvHarvey wrote:I just don't see it.
Yes he gives 100% all the time but what I see is his 100% is not up to standard.
I still believe we have a better future with Hickey as he gives more around the ground.
Saying that Hickey comes with his own areas that aren't up to standard but a better option in my opinion.
Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.
Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.
Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.
And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).
Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".
Longer and Goldstein at the same age.The OtherThommo wrote:
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.
Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.
Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.
Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.
And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).
Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".
Selective stats. What about hitouts? Billy is better. A lot of things Billy does are not in the stats, he gets around the ground better now and is in the midst of the pack more often than Goldstein making his presence felt.kosifantutti wrote:Longer and Goldstein at the same age.The OtherThommo wrote:
Hickey cannot compete in the middle with the monsters, Longer can - it's that simple.
Plus, Hickey is not physically robust - in, out, in, out - having the skinniest tibia/fibula combo many have seen does not help.
Longer's a combative bugger, and is physically robust. Plus, his stoppage ruckwork is actually pretty good -our clearance numbers, in combination with his 'HO to advantage' numbers suggest he ain't the problem.
Look at his numbers against the 'dominant' big men - they're actually pretty good. Even against Jacobs in Adelaide last week he stood up OK.
And, something else for free - people should go and have a look at Todd Goldstein's progress. I did, last year - up until he was around 24/25, he was a duffer - every stat said so, and his climb from then said those stats were ballpark right - because they got so much better as he went up about 4 notches at 25/26 (he's 29 next month).
Billy ain't the problem, and he is a long way shy of "hopeless".
Goldstein is actually two months younger in this comparison but has 44% more disposals and 80% more marks per game.
Selective stats. What about hitouts? Billy is better. A lot of things Billy does are not in the stats, he gets around the ground better now and is in the midst of the pack more often than Goldstein making his presence felt.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=O&fid2=O
There's a difference between having plenty of upside and just being no good.
Stay the F*** away from that shite it's obviously bad news.Wayne42 wrote:maybe he's on the same shite that brought WW to his knees, what is that shite, it's obviously quite potent.The OtherThommo wrote:If you're gonna pot someone, it really helps if you can string 'em together.The Recruit wrote:Billy is embarrassing
Hickey is a much better footballer...Longer is unfortunately and Ponger
Kinda "embarrassing" if ya can't.
"Longer is unfortunately and Ponger" - Jesus wept.
Of course. The biggest bloke in there clears a path for the extractors. His PIP stats are very good.kosifantutti wrote:Billy has an incredible lack of presence in a pack. The biggest bloke there hardly ever gets his hand on the ball.
( God help me)
bigcarl wrote:It's got to be horses for courses with Longer and Hickey. Longer's stronger and more physical, no doubt, but Hickey's the better footballer. There will be match-ups for both.
The big unspoken in those stats is Longer has less kicks, not because of the number of possessions he has but because he does not have any confidence in his own kicking.kosifantutti wrote: Longer and Goldstein at the same age.
Goldstein is actually two months younger in this comparison but has 44% more disposals and 80% more marks per game.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=O&fid2=O
There's a difference between having plenty of upside and just being no good.
Interesting perspective. The ABC radio commentary team today seemed to be of the unanimous opinion that Goldstein was finished at the Roos.The_Dud wrote:Goldstein absolutely toweled Longer up last night, we can't get Hickey back into the team quick enough!
Brunswicksainter wrote:I don't post much on here, but I read through comments regularly and this thread has to be the worst I have ever come across. Billy Longer has been an absolute liability since returning to the team, he is easily the worst player to pull on a saints jumper since the days of charlie gardiner and ryan gamble. He has done nothing positive, via winning a few tap counts in games where we are slaughtered in center clearance numbers.