Saintsational always provides plenty of entertainment after a loss.
But there are a few recurring questions that come up after a loss that I want to discuss.
Mav
Looks like Tarzan, plays like...
He seems to do a lot of pointing, deep breathing and flaring of the nostrils.. but not much else.
When he plays as that link between half back/half forward he is exciting to watch... but Wright can do that as well...Wright is also quick and loves to tackle...Unlike Mav.
Has he worked his way into becoming a coaches pet? Because really, why else does he keep getting picked on the back on 15 touches, maybe a goal and very little pressure?
Dunstan
The new SS whipping boy... and probably with good reason.
Set the bar high with his first year...been stuck in the mud since - and runs like it.
For someone of his frame, he should be in the middle of the contest, right over the ball... if he doesn't get the ball, he should be tackling whoever does get it. He should be the bloke averaging the most tackles/clearances for our side... but for some reason, he skirts around the outside of the packs.
He wants to run and spread.. but he is slow and has a terrible tank.. and can absolutely butcher it going forward.
We've slowly built up a good balance in our midfield mix. In an ideal world.. blokes like Dunstan, Steele, Ross & Stevens should be working hard inside to get it out to Steven, Billings, Acres & Sinclair in space to allow them to use their speed/kicking.
Does anyone else think that Dunstan is an outside mid trapped in an inside mids body?
Richo
Three questions...
Is he flexible enough as a coach?
Can he adjust on the day? Or does he firmly stick to his "structures"
Does he pick on merit or favourites?
To be a strong club, we need to be ruthless at selection (Think Bevo) If a player isn't performing in the ones, they should get dropped and they shouldn't be recalled until they are absolutely smashing the door down.
Remember how long it took Richo to give Acres an extended run in the ones? Despite getting more touches/better impact than some others, he would still get dropped again and again.. Now he is one of our best line breakers.
Remember how long they persisted with Lonie while Sinclair and Mincho were lighting it up in the VFL.
Is there anything wrong with making players go back to the twos to find some form?
Questions
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meher baba
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Re: Questions
Mav: I reckon he's played injured in his last two outings. He needs to get himself right. At his best, Mav is worth two Wrights. His career stats are quite a bit better: around 50% more disposals per game, slightly more tackles on average, and around one goal every 2 games as opposed to Wright's one every three games. I am simply unable to see the point of Wright: a ten possession per game player who generally plays in the front half of the ground, but very rarely kicks a goal.
Dunstan: I reckon he's fair average quality. Perhaps if everyone who can play in the midfield is fit, he doesn't get a game. But it's rare that everyone's fit. By my assessment, he gets in the team unless all of Steven, Stevens, Ross, Newnes, Armo and Steele are available. We have tried having fewer players in the engine room in some games this year, but I didn't much like the result. You and others can call all you like for Dunstan to be dropped, but for whom? Please not another small forward! If we had someone like Milne or LeCras waiting in the wings, then fair enough. But we don't: we have a bunch of small players - Gresham, Lonie, Minchington and Wright - who don't have the fitness to play in the midfield, so they are given a shot at playing small forward. However, Billings - who probably does have the tank to play in the middle - is a far better small forward than the lot of them. Gresham is easily the next best, so I think it's reasonable for him to be in the team. I can't see a role for any of the other three going forward. Minchington is ok in flashes, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if he has a long-term career at AFL level.
Richo: Most coaches stick to their structures throughout the regular season. They tend to save the surprise mid-game adjustments for finals, and we haven't seen Richo coaching in finals yet. It's not fair comparing him to Bevo, who has had a far better list for the last few years (ours is perhaps catching up now). Re Acres: Richo knows far more about how he was going than you or I do. Before yesterday, we won 5 out of 8 and competed really well in our losses to two other high-flying teams (Geelong and the Eagles). Richo must be doing something right. As many said about Ross Lyon in the 2009 GF: it wasn't Richo who missed all those gimme shots in front of goal yesterday.
Dunstan: I reckon he's fair average quality. Perhaps if everyone who can play in the midfield is fit, he doesn't get a game. But it's rare that everyone's fit. By my assessment, he gets in the team unless all of Steven, Stevens, Ross, Newnes, Armo and Steele are available. We have tried having fewer players in the engine room in some games this year, but I didn't much like the result. You and others can call all you like for Dunstan to be dropped, but for whom? Please not another small forward! If we had someone like Milne or LeCras waiting in the wings, then fair enough. But we don't: we have a bunch of small players - Gresham, Lonie, Minchington and Wright - who don't have the fitness to play in the midfield, so they are given a shot at playing small forward. However, Billings - who probably does have the tank to play in the middle - is a far better small forward than the lot of them. Gresham is easily the next best, so I think it's reasonable for him to be in the team. I can't see a role for any of the other three going forward. Minchington is ok in flashes, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if he has a long-term career at AFL level.
Richo: Most coaches stick to their structures throughout the regular season. They tend to save the surprise mid-game adjustments for finals, and we haven't seen Richo coaching in finals yet. It's not fair comparing him to Bevo, who has had a far better list for the last few years (ours is perhaps catching up now). Re Acres: Richo knows far more about how he was going than you or I do. Before yesterday, we won 5 out of 8 and competed really well in our losses to two other high-flying teams (Geelong and the Eagles). Richo must be doing something right. As many said about Ross Lyon in the 2009 GF: it wasn't Richo who missed all those gimme shots in front of goal yesterday.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
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ace
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Re: Questions
Maybe this can help explain why players get picked.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... -explained
Having understood that then try this.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... ub/CD_T130
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... -explained
Having understood that then try this.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... ub/CD_T130
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
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When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
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Re: Questions
Weller - he's a bit of conundrum. Tough, can lay down the law physically which Richo loves, strong leader apparently and strong trainer setting examples, used to pop up for handy goals but they have dried up with his poor kicking. But you can see why GC let him go as well - a bit of poor mans Chapman. Seems a bit inbetween - not fast enough to be a real pressuring forward but not tall enough to be that third forward. Can we carry both him and Membrey?
Dunstan - my issue with Dunstan is really whether he has the reaction speed and footy iq to be a good midfielder. Yes being tough and putting your head in the hole is important but plenty of VFL players can do that. What really separates the Selwoods and Dangers and Fyfe's and Mitchells and Kennedys as brilliant inside onballers is their ability to react to the inside bobbling, bouncing, tapping-on ball and then cleverly work it out with quick hands and kicks. You need a great eye and an almost supernatural instinct for what a ball in chaos will do. Not sure Dunny has that. Can seem a bit lost with the ball in dispute like he just doesn't know where it will go. For me he needs to become an inside brute as we desperately need that if ARmo can't get back to top form. If he is not going to be the smartest player, then to stake his claim onball he needs to become a viscous tank for us, destroying anyone in his path to get the footy. He needs to do damage to oppo mids. STill has time and has the body size to do it but does he have that brutality in him and be prepared to unleash it?
Richo - I've seen some signs Richo is prepared to evolve as a coach which heartens me. He's learning the caper like everyone else and its evolve or die.
Dunstan - my issue with Dunstan is really whether he has the reaction speed and footy iq to be a good midfielder. Yes being tough and putting your head in the hole is important but plenty of VFL players can do that. What really separates the Selwoods and Dangers and Fyfe's and Mitchells and Kennedys as brilliant inside onballers is their ability to react to the inside bobbling, bouncing, tapping-on ball and then cleverly work it out with quick hands and kicks. You need a great eye and an almost supernatural instinct for what a ball in chaos will do. Not sure Dunny has that. Can seem a bit lost with the ball in dispute like he just doesn't know where it will go. For me he needs to become an inside brute as we desperately need that if ARmo can't get back to top form. If he is not going to be the smartest player, then to stake his claim onball he needs to become a viscous tank for us, destroying anyone in his path to get the footy. He needs to do damage to oppo mids. STill has time and has the body size to do it but does he have that brutality in him and be prepared to unleash it?
Richo - I've seen some signs Richo is prepared to evolve as a coach which heartens me. He's learning the caper like everyone else and its evolve or die.
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saintsRrising
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Re: Questions
Not sure that quantity can be said to be an issue for Mav. He has averaged 18.5 disposals per game and such an average is very good for a small forward.The_President wrote:
Mav
Has he worked his way into becoming a coaches pet? Because really, why else does he keep getting picked on the back on 15 touches, maybe a goal and very little pressure?
Eddie Betts is averaging 15.0 this year. This is a career high for Eddie who in recent years has been more around the 13 mark.
Even Milney only averaged 11.9 over his career and his best year was 15.1
Mav has kicked 7 goals 12 this year. So it is more his conversion rate which is the issue.
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Linton Lodger
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Re: Questions
Weller has had a run of poor form, could be carrying something. When he's on, he's in our best 22. He'll never be elite but he is a ferocious competitor. a stand over man in the forward line providing good forward defence whilst scoring. He'll be fine.
Dunstan, as others have said needs to be our inside beast. He does put his head where angels fear to tread and is an extractor. When he goes well we always go well. We need more from him aside from that and that will probably come when he masters gut running, it takes time. I'm confident he will become a key part of our midfield providing he works his arse off.
In Richo we have a gem. He was Coached by Leigh Matthews so had the best mentor possible, is a very intelligent man and appears to have good leadership qualities. What he's building is nothing new under the sun, its very Leigh Matthews. He has developed a list that is tighter than tight, they're hard and they've got a swagger about them. They are determined to go places. Tactically he does respond, the issue yesterday was execution and that's beyond a Coach's control on the day. He has Coached Beveridge off the park on at least 2 occasions and in a brutal battle last year prevailed over Ross Lyon at his fighting best. He also had to be right on his game and succeeded against GWS. Sure Longmire has had the wood on him, but I'm sure Richo will take the challenge.
Dunstan, as others have said needs to be our inside beast. He does put his head where angels fear to tread and is an extractor. When he goes well we always go well. We need more from him aside from that and that will probably come when he masters gut running, it takes time. I'm confident he will become a key part of our midfield providing he works his arse off.
In Richo we have a gem. He was Coached by Leigh Matthews so had the best mentor possible, is a very intelligent man and appears to have good leadership qualities. What he's building is nothing new under the sun, its very Leigh Matthews. He has developed a list that is tighter than tight, they're hard and they've got a swagger about them. They are determined to go places. Tactically he does respond, the issue yesterday was execution and that's beyond a Coach's control on the day. He has Coached Beveridge off the park on at least 2 occasions and in a brutal battle last year prevailed over Ross Lyon at his fighting best. He also had to be right on his game and succeeded against GWS. Sure Longmire has had the wood on him, but I'm sure Richo will take the challenge.
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Con Gorozidis
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Re: Questions
Weller only has 500 goals to catch up to Betts and Milne.saintsRrising wrote:Not sure that quantity can be said to be an issue for Mav. He has averaged 18.5 disposals per game and such an average is very good for a small forward.The_President wrote:
Mav
Has he worked his way into becoming a coaches pet? Because really, why else does he keep getting picked on the back on 15 touches, maybe a goal and very little pressure?
Eddie Betts is averaging 15.0 this year. This is a career high for Eddie who in recent years has been more around the 13 mark.
Even Milney only averaged 11.9 over his career and his best year was 15.1
Mav has kicked 7 goals 12 this year. So it is more his conversion rate which is the issue.
If he can kick 50 every year for the next ten he will get there aged 35!
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ROLS-LEE
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Re: Questions
Dunstan can still be a very good player. He seems to want to be outside as he is a bit goal hungry and will try and have a shot from any angle even though he could pass to a player in a better position.
As a whole we just need more players that can dispose of the ball better. It was soo bad against sydney.
As a whole we just need more players that can dispose of the ball better. It was soo bad against sydney.
Re: Questions
Why are we calling Dunstan an inside beast?
He's not that big....
Mundy, Fyfe, Martin, Kennedy, Watson, Danger, Wines...
They are bulls ... you need size and Power!
Luke is a six footer... with short legs
He's not that big....
Mundy, Fyfe, Martin, Kennedy, Watson, Danger, Wines...
They are bulls ... you need size and Power!
Luke is a six footer... with short legs
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dragit
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Re: Questions
That doesn't really help... those links suggest that mav is 50 ranking points ahead of membrey and 100 ahead of billings.ace wrote:Maybe this can help explain why players get picked.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... -explained
Having understood that then try this.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-rati ... ub/CD_T130
They also suggest that Savage is our 9th ranked player, armitage our 3rd and joey our 4th.
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WellardSaint
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Re: Questions
Mav...Many occasions on Saturday Mav was running hard after a swan but couldn't close the gap, they managed to evade his grasp.
But he's nowhere near last year's level. In the Tassy win, the whole team gelled
and I don't know whether he helped drive the win, or did he ride the wave?
Otherwise, he's missing something, and I hope he can get it back.
Wright is nice and brave, and manic, but doesn't get near the ball enough.
Not sure why, endurance, judgement?
Luke. We won without him, because he slows down our midfield.
Koby is a huge improvement on him,
and it was obvious against Giants n Hawks. Vision and courage. Luke's brave, but
hasn't got that awareness, not even close. Luke is a liability.
Richo. He is set in his ways, keeps love for Dunstan and others, has encouraged a stupid forward plan
of "bomb it to square" instead of picking a leading target. And complains that we
can't score many goals from all the entries?
He will be our downfall.
The Giants win was a false dawn, gave the place false hope that the team was on track.
Swans showed us that our strategy is rubbish.
We give up TOO many goals from kick-ins; a point is just delaying the next goal as
the ball returns with interest.
But he's nowhere near last year's level. In the Tassy win, the whole team gelled
and I don't know whether he helped drive the win, or did he ride the wave?
Otherwise, he's missing something, and I hope he can get it back.
Wright is nice and brave, and manic, but doesn't get near the ball enough.
Not sure why, endurance, judgement?
Luke. We won without him, because he slows down our midfield.
Koby is a huge improvement on him,
and it was obvious against Giants n Hawks. Vision and courage. Luke's brave, but
hasn't got that awareness, not even close. Luke is a liability.
Richo. He is set in his ways, keeps love for Dunstan and others, has encouraged a stupid forward plan
of "bomb it to square" instead of picking a leading target. And complains that we
can't score many goals from all the entries?
He will be our downfall.
The Giants win was a false dawn, gave the place false hope that the team was on track.
Swans showed us that our strategy is rubbish.
We give up TOO many goals from kick-ins; a point is just delaying the next goal as
the ball returns with interest.
Last edited by WellardSaint on Mon 22 May 2017 12:51am, edited 1 time in total.
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Linton Lodger
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Re: Questions
Its not about his size, although he is thick & sturdy. He gets in and under and hits hard.BigMart wrote:Why are we calling Dunstan an inside beast?
He's not that big....
Mundy, Fyfe, Martin, Kennedy, Watson, Danger, Wines...
They are bulls ... you need size and Power!
Luke is a six footer... with short legs
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Linton Lodger
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Re: Questions
Swans might have got us tactically on the day, but the tactics they employed wouldn't have worked on the MCG.WellardSaint wrote:Many occasions on Saturday Mav was running hard after a swan but couldn't close the gap, they managed to evade his grasp.
But he's nowhere near last year's level. In the Tassy win, the whole team gelled
and I don't know whether he helped drive the win, or did he ride the wave?
Otherwise, he's missing something, and I hope he can get it back.
Wright is nice and brave, and manic, but doesn't get near the ball enough.
Not sure why, endurance, judgement?
Luke. We won without him, because he slows down our midfield.
Koby is a huge improvement on him,
and it was obvious against Giants n Hawks. Vision and courage. Luke's brave, but
hasn't got that awareness, not even close. Luke is a liability.
Richo. He is set in his ways, keeps love for Dunstan and others, has encouraged a stupid forward plan
of "bomb it to square" instead of picking a leading target. And complains that we
can't score many goals from all the entries?
He will be our downfall.
The Giants win was a false dawn, gave the place false hope that the team was on track.
Swans showed us that our strategy is rubbish.
We give up TOO many goals from kick-ins; a point is just delaying the next goal as
the ball returns with interest.
Relying on picking out leading targets with today's defensive structures. Good luck with that. His game plan is simple, yet if executed properly, very difficult to stop.