Mcstake

[Waltzing St Kilda]

A c**k-up selection that everyone was saying was a c**k-up and yet they still went ahead and made the c**k-up.

Yet, unwilling to admit they made a c**k-up, they try to convince themselves that all will be well.

Bruce and Membrey were bought cheaply so look on the bright side and stick with those.

[Otiman]

McCartin must continue to play as long as he is improving and the effort is there, which it certainly was today.

Bruce in for Membrey or Roo if required.

[White Winmar]

Nah, trout said that's a non-issue

In fact it'll make him better

I'm more concerned about 3 AFL season in a pro (7day a week) environment and having puppy fat

How the f*** does that happen?

Well trout would say that. Of course diabetes makes a difference. It is manageable and people do succeed in elite sports with it, but to say it isn't a factor is just the trout covering his arse. Read up on the effects of concussion on diabetics (hasn't that become relevant?), the greater length in time to heal from injury, the strain on the immune system, not to mention the effects on glucose delivery into the muscles. Insulin is a fat storing hormone. That is also a factor. I'm sick of hearing that crap from trout. Is he an endocrinologist? I doubt it. It clearly is a factor. After three years in the system, he is clearly struggling physically, both with his physique and endurance.

[PremiershipSaint]

Has he got fatter this year?

[SaintPav]

Even with an ordinary day he was better than Bruce's last fortnight.

Not from what I saw.

[Stephen Theodore]

I'm not convinced about him being not quick enough, more his 2nd & 3rd efforts at the contest, and most definitely his defensive efforts are not upto scratch. Ball coming in was average at best, I really think he needs to be given the rest of the season and let's see how he goes. This would be his 4th ? Pre season, and to be honest, he just doesn't look lean and ripped like the majority of AFL players do these days. I look at the glass half full but am concerned about the physical aspect of the young fellow.

[twirlyhair]

Pretty tough to really judge him on today's team performance. It certainly wasn't a day for forwards..of either team.

[Wayne42]

At some point we should concede we got it wrong and try and convince another club he's a gun and get a reasonable pick for him, it won't be a first round pick though.

[carn_sainter]

McCartin is a natural footballer. There are many parts of the game he is naturally good at and he has a lot of really good traits.

For the sub-elite level.

For the elite level, he has a very low ceiling. The limiting factors are:

1) Fitness. Huge issue. Nowhere near it.
2) Presence. He has next to none. No defender is worried playing on him. See 1
3) Poise. Due mainly to inexperience. Having said that, he trains, so should be in simulation enough.
4) Efficiency. You feel like he would need to make 20 leads for 4-5 marks. Part delivery, part he is gassed.

For mine, he is way behind Josh Bruce for the 2017 side.
Bruce gives a contest.
Bruce defends.
Bruce creates space by leading.
Bruce contributes to a dynamic environment through his work, which helps crumbers.
Bruce presents up to the ball so that we, as a team, can move it from one end to the other. Something that did not happen against Sydney.

Paddy has a lot of good attributes, but he is not yet at the elite level. 2018 maybe.

[repta]

No way Mcartin will ever get tunneled. He cant jump firstly. Secondly it would be impossble to move his rear end sufficiently to unbalance him.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

McCartin is a natural footballer. There are many parts of the game he is naturally good at and he has a lot of really good traits.

For the sub-elite level.

For the elite level, he has a very low ceiling. The limiting factors are:

1) Fitness. Huge issue. Nowhere near it.
2) Presence. He has next to none. No defender is worried playing on him. See 1
3) Poise. Due mainly to inexperience. Having said that, he trains, so should be in simulation enough.
4) Efficiency. You feel like he would need to make 20 leads for 4-5 marks. Part delivery, part he is gassed.

For mine, he is way behind Josh Bruce for the 2017 side.
Bruce gives a contest.
Bruce defends.
Bruce creates space by leading.
Bruce contributes to a dynamic environment through his work, which helps crumbers.
Bruce presents up to the ball so that we, as a team, can move it from one end to the other. Something that did not happen against Sydney.

Paddy has a lot of good attributes, but he is not yet at the elite level. 2018 maybe.

Good post.

[Stephen Theodore]

I'm not convinced about him being not quick enough, more his 2nd & 3rd efforts at the contest, and most definitely his defensive efforts are not upto scratch. Ball coming in was average at best, I really think he needs to be given the rest of the season and let's see how he goes. This would be his 4th ? Pre season, and to be honest, he just doesn't look lean and ripped like the majority of AFL players do these days. I look at the glass half full but am concerned about the physical aspect of the young fellow.

[takeaway]

McCartin should stay in the ones for the rest of the year. He is a presence, missed his marks today and had no delivery.
He is different to the other forwards was in the right spot often but ball not delivered (same with whole forward line today)- matter of gelling with the play structure and settling in.

[Linton Street Saint]

I think everyone in this thread needs to look at Tom Hawkins first 5 years in the AFL.

Some of the drivel here .... You would think Petracca is tracking to win a brownlow in his first year.

[Wayne42]

I think everyone in this thread needs to look at Tom Hawkins first 5 years in the AFL.

Some of the drivel here .... You would think Petracca is tracking to win a brownlow in his first year.

Have a look at Hawkins now, he's more like he was in his first 5 years, ordinary, hence Harry Taylor going forward.

[Bluthy]

This is the price you pay for developing your number 1 pick power forward. He's only played what 20 games or so? He is going to have some ordinary games like today. To step up to the pace of AFL where there is no space is really hard for big forwards who rely on timing and takes a lot of games to get that consistency at AFL level going. It's why I always viewed this year as another experimental/developmental year ideally.

Gunna take time and games to start to see the best out of him. He's far from him ideal shape and fitness. But I'm confident his bullocking huge frame and play reading will be a great advantage for us, particularly in finals.

And he did some nice field kicking again today. Takes good options and delivers well.

[magnifisaint]

Probably the diabetes that's the issue

bulls***

[Linton Lodger]

Here we go, armchair (probable fat arsed) experts, whom I'm guessing have never played sport at more than a social level, if ever, writing Paddy off again.

K Stevens, DMac, Roberton, Geary, Montagna, Longer, Sinclair, Dunstan & Weller. All of these players had worse games than Paddy. Riewoldt & Membrey were about the same and at best only slightly better.

Our midfield was terrible today, utterly smashed, furthermore the movement of the ball into inside 50 was diabolically bad, I cannot remember one half decent kick into our forward 50, not one! How would you expect a key forward to go in those circumstances? On top of that we came up against the best defence we've faced all year by a mile.

And yet your caning a kid playing his 20th game as a key forward, in a team that was utter crap on the day. In 6 of those 20 games he was injured really early and played no more. He was the Sub in 2 of them. So he's only really played 12 games and never more than 3 in a row. So as a key forward he's a novice.

Now your harping on about him being disabled. Some players take longer to develop the body and engine for AFL football. Jack Steven took 5 or 6 seasons, Armitage about 5 seasons.

The fact that the kid is playing at this level with diabetes is a testament to his extreme courage and sheer mental toughness. And you bozos are writing him off, when you couldn't even fantasise his level of courage and I'm guessing rank as insipid in the mental toughness department.

So sit on your couch with a bag of chips, cake and a big frophy and squeal away. Then on Monday its back to work, ticking boxes and keeping your nose firmly planted between your bosses' cheeks. You ordinary armchair squibs.

[Impatient Sainter]

McCartin must continue to play as long as he is improving and the effort is there, which it certainly was today.

Bruce in for Membrey or Roo if required.

Would we be saying that if he wasnt a No 1 draft pick I think not. He would be told to learn his trade and become more competitive in the VFL. Because he is a No 1 pick the club feel the pressure to play him. I dont believe he should have played today but it wasnt his fault the Saints had a shocker.

[mr six o'clock]

Bruce and membrey are good ordinary players .
Paddy as a top pick should be better than that
He will get better but I'm beginning to wonder if he'll only reach that good ordinary player level .

[SemperFidelis]

Delivery into our forwards today was very ordinary.

The only thing that worried me about Paddy early was an apparent lack of pace to a defensive contest. Improved as the game went on.

Will spend plenty of time in the twos and will be better for it, but does need to be given a chance. I have no problem that they played him today, but whether he stays in against the speedy bulldogs is a big ask.

This summer will be a very big pre-season for him.

[Bruce G McAbee]

This is the price you pay for developing your number 1 pick power forward. He's only played what 20 games or so? He is going to have some ordinary games like today. To step up to the pace of AFL where there is no space is really hard for big forwards who rely on timing and takes a lot of games to get that consistency at AFL level going. It's why I always viewed this year as another experimental/developmental year ideally.

Gunna take time and games to start to see the best out of him. He's far from him ideal shape and fitness. But I'm confident his bullocking huge frame and play reading will be a great advantage for us, particularly in finals.

And he did some nice field kicking again today. Takes good options and delivers well.

Problem is, he hasn't really impressed in any games so far. Showed glimpses yes, but as yet hasn't taken the game on. If anything he's gone backwards from the end of last season. It might not be the diabetes, but his attitude and he has had his share of concussions and other injuries that may have him not mentally fit to fully commit himself to the game now. From what I saw today, better to cut our losses at the end of the season and see if anyone wants him, or just let him go.

[Linton Lodger]

This is the price you pay for developing your number 1 pick power forward. He's only played what 20 games or so? He is going to have some ordinary games like today. To step up to the pace of AFL where there is no space is really hard for big forwards who rely on timing and takes a lot of games to get that consistency at AFL level going. It's why I always viewed this year as another experimental/developmental year ideally.

Gunna take time and games to start to see the best out of him. He's far from him ideal shape and fitness. But I'm confident his bullocking huge frame and play reading will be a great advantage for us, particularly in finals.

And he did some nice field kicking again today. Takes good options and delivers well.

Problem is, he hasn't really impressed in any games so far. Showed glimpses yes, but as yet hasn't taken the game on. If anything he's gone backwards from the end of last season. It might not be the diabetes, but his attitude and he has had his share of concussions and other injuries that may have him not mentally fit to fully commit himself to the game now. From what I saw today, better to cut our losses at the end of the season and see if anyone wants him, or just let him go.

I'm glad you're not running the Club.

[Stephen Theodore]

Delivery into our forwards today was very ordinary.

The only thing that worried me about Paddy early was an apparent lack of pace to a defensive contest. Improved as the game went on.

Will spend plenty of time in the twos and will be better for it, but does need to be given a chance. I have no problem that they played him today, but whether he stays in against the speedy bulldogs is a big ask.

This summer will be a very big pre-season for him.

Agree, but how many pre seasons does he need, has very litttle definition through the arms/shoulders. Not the be all and end all, but normally shows how much work is done in the gym, and combined with diet ???

[Bruce G McAbee]

This is the price you pay for developing your number 1 pick power forward. He's only played what 20 games or so? He is going to have some ordinary games like today. To step up to the pace of AFL where there is no space is really hard for big forwards who rely on timing and takes a lot of games to get that consistency at AFL level going. It's why I always viewed this year as another experimental/developmental year ideally.

Gunna take time and games to start to see the best out of him. He's far from him ideal shape and fitness. But I'm confident his bullocking huge frame and play reading will be a great advantage for us, particularly in finals.

And he did some nice field kicking again today. Takes good options and delivers well.

Problem is, he hasn't really impressed in any games so far. Showed glimpses yes, but as yet hasn't taken the game on. If anything he's gone backwards from the end of last season. It might not be the diabetes, but his attitude and he has had his share of concussions and other injuries that may have him not mentally fit to fully commit himself to the game now. From what I saw today, better to cut our losses at the end of the season and see if anyone wants him, or just let him go.

I'm glad you're not running the Club.

So how long do you persist with him?