Where is Riewoldt amoungst our all time greats?

[saynta]

When John McIntosh was playing, he was rated as one of the three best players in australia.

I remember one of the others was a sth aussie who never played in the VFL named Robran.

Can't remember who the third one was.

[saynta]

Russell Holmesby the well known, and regarded StKFC Historian, did 'his StKilda Top 25 back in 2015.
http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-01-1 ... top-25-no1

His Top 5in order were:

Stewart
Lockett
Baldock
Harvey
Riewoldt

However just read his article and not ffs, or blasphemation, anywhere, and so obviously his opinion must be disregarded as lacking credibility

Really, well f*** me.

And here's me thinking old Russell at least got the top 5 right, if not the actual order.

[BigMart]

Apologies,

Just does my **** head in when our most prolific, most decorated player

Is not given the credit he should!

It triggers me... bad memories of arguing about who was best player in the 90s
Buckley, Hird or Voss

I would just lose it!!!!!

[saynta]

Apologies,

Just does my **** head in when our most prolific, most decorated player

Is not given the credit he should!

It triggers me... bad memories of arguing about who was best player in the 90s
Buckley, Hird or Voss

I would just lose it!!!!!

No apologies required BM .

Banger was a fantastic footballer.

Pity the club has never tried to get him back in a coaching roll.

That does my head in. I understand his management made enquiries at the end of last year, but nothing came of it

I too used to get upset that banger was seen in some lesser light by so called experts when discussing Buckley, Hird, Voss and the Sth Aussie Roo.

Banger was at least their equal.

Incidentally Buckley rates banger a better player than he was.

I wouldn't be upset to see rated Banger the equal of the other 4 Saints when it came to greatest ever saint.

I love the guy.

[Enrico_Misso]

Very interesting thread though more of an off season one.

The general consensus seems to be that the top 5 (in alphabetical order) are
Baldock, Harvey, Lockett, Riewoldt, Stewart
Then we differ on the order based on age (didn't see Stewie or The Doc) or the criteria that are most important to us (premierships, BOGs, B&Fs, skills, courage, leadership, marking, tackling, goalkicking, fieldkicking, handball, gutrunning, reading the play, versatility, playing through injuries etc.)

The fact is that there will never be a perfect footballer and the above 5 all have their faults
Baldock - short career
Harvey - not a goalkicker
Lockett - never fit, questionable loyalty
Riewoldt - didn't excel on the biggest stage
Stewart - didn't play long enough for us, "strange" person

I actually think Winmar is the closest thing to an all round footballer. He was the most versatile footballer I have seen. You could play him in any role except ruck and he would excel.

But clearly the most talented and exciting player was Plugger.
I remember in the 80s frequently swapping to the Plugger end for the last quarter.
People would go to games just to watch him as some did for Garry Ablett senior.
To be honest I don't think that criteria would apply to the other four.

[saynta]

Very interesting thread though more of an off season one.

The general consensus seems to be that the top 5 (in alphabetical order) are
Baldock, Harvey, Lockett, Riewoldt, Stewart
Then we differ on the order based on age (didn't see Stewie or The Doc) or the criteria that are most important to us (premierships, BOGs, B&Fs, skills, courage, leadership, marking, tackling, goalkicking, fieldkicking, handball, gutrunning, reading the play, versatility, playing through injuries etc.)

The fact is that there will never be a perfect footballer and the above 5 all have their faults
Baldock - short career
Harvey - not a goalkicker
Lockett - never fit, questionable loyalty
Riewoldt - didn't excel on the biggest stage
Stewart - didn't play long enough for us, "strange" person

I actually think Winmar is the closest thing to an all round footballer. He was the most versatile footballer I have seen. You could play him in any role except ruck and he would excel.

But clearly the most talented and exciting player was Plugger.
I remember in the 80s frequently swapping to the Plugger end for the last quarter.
People would go to games just to watch him as some did for Garry Ablett senior.
To be honest I don't think that criteria would apply to the other four.

Good sensible post.

People did go to the footy to watch Baldock though and Ditterich.

If you didn't see him play, think jezza, but twice as good.the doc that is not big Carl.

I rate Carl my third favourite.

Loved watching Cuz play. He actually is my all time favorite footballer, along with Muir.

[BigMart]

Baldock - Short Career... played Senior footy at 15yo
Stewart - Weird guy.... so what
Lockett - Unfit... but still dominated
Harvey - not enough goals... played midfield and have plenty off
Riewoldt - poor on big stage .... awesome finals record, played one GF in the wet... another in a flogging where the ball spent 70% of the time in Coll forward half. In the Draw was very good

[prwilkinson]

Top 5 player for the club... you're splitting hairs at that point really.

[Moods]

Riewoldt - poor on big stage .... awesome finals record,

Is this not a contradiction??

[Freebird]

Very interesting thread though more of an off season one.

The general consensus seems to be that the top 5 (in alphabetical order) are
Baldock, Harvey, Lockett, Riewoldt, Stewart
Then we differ on the order based on age (didn't see Stewie or The Doc) or the criteria that are most important to us (premierships, BOGs, B&Fs, skills, courage, leadership, marking, tackling, goalkicking, fieldkicking, handball, gutrunning, reading the play, versatility, playing through injuries etc.)

The fact is that there will never be a perfect footballer and the above 5 all have their faults
Baldock - short career
Harvey - not a goalkicker
Lockett - never fit, questionable loyalty
Riewoldt - didn't excel on the biggest stage
Stewart - didn't play long enough for us, "strange" person

I actually think Winmar is the closest thing to an all round footballer. He was the most versatile footballer I have seen. You could play him in any role except ruck and he would excel.

But clearly the most talented and exciting player was Plugger.
I remember in the 80s frequently swapping to the Plugger end for the last quarter.
People would go to games just to watch him as some did for Garry Ablett senior.
To be honest I don't think that criteria would apply to the other four.

Harvey kicked 215 career goals and was by far the best player of creating scores than anyone i've seen.
I used to argue with a mate who was missed more when they were not playing Winmar/Harvey - this was when Harvey was young.
St Kilda just could not create enough when Harvey was missing in his earlier days.

Was great to have the ball in either's hand as you knew something good was going to happen mostly with many yards gained.

Neil Roberts once said Stewart was the best footballer he'd seen as he always won the contested ball and had great disposal.

[prwilkinson]

Very interesting thread though more of an off season one.

The general consensus seems to be that the top 5 (in alphabetical order) are
Baldock, Harvey, Lockett, Riewoldt, Stewart
Then we differ on the order based on age (didn't see Stewie or The Doc) or the criteria that are most important to us (premierships, BOGs, B&Fs, skills, courage, leadership, marking, tackling, goalkicking, fieldkicking, handball, gutrunning, reading the play, versatility, playing through injuries etc.)

The fact is that there will never be a perfect footballer and the above 5 all have their faults
Baldock - short career
Harvey - not a goalkicker
Lockett - never fit, questionable loyalty
Riewoldt - didn't excel on the biggest stage
Stewart - didn't play long enough for us, "strange" person

I actually think Winmar is the closest thing to an all round footballer. He was the most versatile footballer I have seen. You could play him in any role except ruck and he would excel.

But clearly the most talented and exciting player was Plugger.
I remember in the 80s frequently swapping to the Plugger end for the last quarter.
People would go to games just to watch him as some did for Garry Ablett senior.
To be honest I don't think that criteria would apply to the other four.

Fair point. Plugger was just awesome. The crowd went nuts when the ball got anywhere near him. The only player that I can remember seeing that happen again was Buddy Franklin during his amazing 2008 season. Hmmm... maybe Modra when he basically had the keys to Adelaide during those years. That's it.

[asaint]

Riewoldt - poor on big stage .... awesome finals record,

Is this not a contradiction??

I am with Bigmart. Roo has an awesome finals record & he was the reason we won so many.

[ace]

When John McIntosh was playing, he was rated as one of the three best players in australia.

I remember one of the others was a sth aussie who never played in the VFL named Robran.

Can't remember who the third one was.

John McIntosh put his reputation on the line and came to play for St Kilda.
He was a class player but proved not to be top 3 in country.
Barrie Robran was not willing to risk his reputation in the best competition in the land.
It is easy to be highly rated if you only have state league players in the SANFL to beat.
Riewoldt has stood out just as much as Robran but he has done it against the best players in the land.

[ace]

When John McIntosh was playing, he was rated as one of the three best players in australia.

I remember one of the others was a sth aussie who never played in the VFL named Robran.

Can't remember who the third one was.

John McIntosh put his reputation on the line and came to play for St Kilda.
He was a class player but proved not to be top 3 in country.
Barrie Robran was not willing to risk his reputation in the best competition in the land.
It is easy to be highly rated if you only have state league players in the SANFL to beat.
Riewoldt has stood out just as much as Robran but he has done it against the best players in the land.

[desertsaint]

Barrie Robran was not willing to risk his reputation in the best competition in the land.
It is easy to be highly rated if you only have state league players in the SANFL to beat.
Riewoldt has stood out just as much as Robran but he has done it against the best players in the land.

Reads like typical Vic bias, so from a neutral's perspective...

Not much difference between the state leagues at that time. In the NT probably more of us supported SANFL teams over VFL teams - the quality was similar, VFL slightly better, fair bit more depth, but stars in both. The very best SA footballers chose to stay in SA -Robran, Bagshaw, Aish; some went in their twilight for easy money - Ebert; of the few that went during their peak - like Blight, none were in Robran's league.

Russell Ebert is considered the second best SA player ever, ahead of players like Blight, Jarman, Kernahan, Platten, etc.
Ask him how good Robran was. He was probably better than Leigh Matthews, which is why Leigh smashed his knee and ended his career.

[skeptic]

I pbly rate Riewoldt and Harvey as our greatest.

I can't objectively make a call on Stewart/Baldock etc but on stats and impact it appears the big 3 have them covered.

For whatever reason, I've cooled on a plugger a bit...it's hard to rate a player who very best we saw so little of, yet at baseline he was so much better than most.

[BigMart]

If Plugger was disciplined and fit

He may have not only rewritten record books, he would have been the undisputed #1

Not at stk but in the afl

But alas, he was neither... so is relegated to just being a legend, and still the record holder in the top 5 ever... in the afl

1988-1994
Plugger played 60% of the games in his prime and was very overweight

[stonecold]

If Plugger was disciplined and fit

He may have not only rewritten record books, he would have been the undisputed #1

Not at stk but in the afl

But alas, he was neither... so is relegated to just being a legend, and still the record holder in the top 5 ever... in the afl

1988-1994
Plugger played 60% of the games in his prime and was very overweight

Chronic Asmatic!!!!!

Oh, and Plugger was overweight, but Paddy is too Fat, your words, not mine!!!!!

[BigMart]

Best you quote me on Paddy?

[Saint_J]

if roo had been able to kick straighter over the journey, he would have been right up there. I worry he will not get the true recognition he deserves due to that.

He's the best Saint i seen so far in my time following the club.

[Proph3t of egan]

In terms of playing ability, it's hard to go past plugger or banger. But Roo's loyalty to the club is second to none in our history bar Trevor Barker. Always given his best and put the club first, even when he was offered a possibly enormous contract as well as the chance to return to where he grew up in Gold Coast. I rate him top 3 at least

[Dave McNamara]

Some all-time champions of the club named in this thread. Multiple B&F winners, some who have won the league's B&F also.

But there's one bloke missing.

Could play almost any position.
Arguably the best kick in the entire history of the game.
His unavailability cost us what would have been our first flag, back in the day.
A B&F(s) winner.
Club captain.
State representative.
And, two-time league B&F winner also...

[Enrico_Misso]

... and Billy Mohr by any criteria is an all time great along with DMc!

[The OtherThommo]

I don't give 2 hoots that Doc had a short career, he made this footy club (on and off ground). Jeansy said it, and he was far from alone.

I used to watch WoS on Sundee mornings, and the ONLY player who could pull up their bs was Doc. When he turned up, everyone else shut up.

A gem of a footballer, and a gem of a man. We don't win in '66 if he doesn't sit on the bench in the final round.

All the rest is futile argument and relativism.

No better man ever represented this footy club.

And, if he had swapped places with Stewart, rather than being bashed from pillar to post as the world's shortest CHF (yet, most effective, to that time), his career would not only have gone on a lot longer, he would have won 5 Brownlow Medals.

THE BEST FOOTBALLER I HAVE EVER SEEN, BAR NONE.

And, quite probably the finest individual from the upper echelons of sport it has ever been my privilege to spend some time with.

Edited for the P.S. - I hold Roo in such high regard, as much as I loved Banger and Lenny, and revered Plugger's kit, I reckon Roo now is Doc's 2nd in regard - the man is a giant of the game, and so damn worthy of respect.

[SaintPav]

Barrie Robran was not willing to risk his reputation in the best competition in the land.
It is easy to be highly rated if you only have state league players in the SANFL to beat.
Riewoldt has stood out just as much as Robran but he has done it against the best players in the land.

Reads like typical Vic bias, so from a neutral's perspective...

Not much difference between the state leagues at that time. In the NT probably more of us supported SANFL teams over VFL teams - the quality was similar, VFL slightly better, fair bit more depth, but stars in both. The very best SA footballers chose to stay in SA -Robran, Bagshaw, Aish; some went in their twilight for easy money - Ebert; of the few that went during their peak - like Blight, none were in Robran's league.

Russell Ebert is considered the second best SA player ever, ahead of players like Blight, Jarman, Kernahan, Platten, etc.
Ask him how good Robran was. He was probably better than Leigh Matthews, which is why Leigh smashed his knee and ended his career.

VFL only slightly better that SANFL.

Mate, you're dreaming!!!