Where is Riewoldt amoungst our all time greats?

[BigMart]

This thread suggests one thing,

Robert Harvey is even underrated by his own supporters?

To achieve what he did, for the length of time he did, truly remarkable!

He was the best midfielder (where games are actually won) for over a decade... He was the best player in the league for a few years... In a year where Lockett won the goalkicking with his highest ever tally, Harves won the B&F

Lockett rates him the best he ever saw, and he played for 15 years

Harvey held the record (don't count Double vote getter in 76/77 Dempsey and Matthews) for vrownlow votes for a reason
Best player IMO

[stonecold]

This thread suggests one thing,

Robert Harvey is even underrated by his own supporters?

To achieve what he did, for the length of time he did, truly remarkable!

He was the best midfielder (where games are actually won) for over a decade... He was the best player in the league for a few years... In a year where Lockett won the goalkicking with his highest ever tally, Harves won the B&F

Lockett rates him the best he ever saw, and he played for 15 years

Harvey held the record (don't count Double vote getter in 76/77 Dempsey and Matthews) for vrownlow votes for a reason
Best player IMO

Good post, fair post, midfielders post though!!!!!






Couldn't find any room for Dean Grieg?????

[desertsaint]

very frustrating how underrated Banger is by opp supporters and the media. Part of it was that he played with us, part of it only one losing gf, part of it that he didn't work in the media. Instead we see voss, hird, ruccitio, buckley all talked about from the mid 90s. Harvey was the best of them.

Our best ever since i've watched us (79-) would be plugger, harvey, roo, hayes, winmar. roo will always have the three gf performances hanging over his head. Chance to grab immortality and he dropped it.

[George27]

This is a great thread, and kudos to the OP and all contributors.

Having seen all the nominees play, on the basis of talent and the ability to win a game off their own boot, Plugger and Doc were the two best. Ian Stewart was a beautiful footballer, but in my view Baldock was the number one player in that team that rose up from 63 onwards . ( And agree with comments re Big Carl - his impact on arrival in 63 was stunning, and so cruel that suspension robbed him of being in the 66 premiership team)

In terms of overall contribution to the club, longevity has to be factored in. So from that perspective, Roo is the greatest Saint of my time , just ahead of Banger. Sustained brilliance and loyalty for season after season. Not at all to be marked down for the 09 GF as he was injured. It remains a pleasure to watch his superb work ethic and brilliant play, again exhibited last weekend.

I was pleased to see someone mention John McIntosh . Not in the conversation about top Saints ever, and only played 50 games, but geez he was good. Mobile ruckman who would hit Allan Davis with stab passes off either foot. If he has not done his knee in 71 semi, we win that flag and possibly the next one or two as well.

[Mr Magic]

I would have thought that games are actually won by posting the higher score. I've seen numerous occasions where a team has easily won the midfield battle but lost the game by inaccurate kicking at goal.

[Linton Lodger]

Great, but not as good as Baldock, Stewart, Lockett or Hayes. On par with Rob Harvey.

[Moods]

Great, but not as good as Baldock, Stewart, Lockett or Hayes. On par with Rob Harvey.

Harvey not as good as Hayes??????? Yes, we all love Lenny, but come on!

Roo for mine sits between Plugger and Harvey as our 3 best Saints. Never saw Baldock or Stewart play, but obviously were superstars of their era.

[samuraisaint]

The answer is: right up there!
I saw Ditterich play in the twilight of his St. Kilda days and he was an absolute beauty. I don't think anybody born before 1987 and is a serious St. Kilda supporter could leave Nicky Winmar out either. Rob Harvey obviously.
Never saw Stewart or Baldock play, but they're in there too.
Personally, the best St. Kilda player I have ever seen was Lockett AND Riewoldt. I can't separate them. Frawley, a criminally underrated uncompromising full back in a struggling team who regularly held his own against the likes of Dunstall, Brereton, Ablett, Sumich and Kernahan, right up there with Bob Murray.
We also had a bloke wear the tricolour called Cazaly who could play a bit too as could McNamara, then Bill Mohr in the 30s went alright too. Remember that old timers who followed football reckon that our 1939 team was very strong.

[SemperFidelis]

There's 2 questions here.....

Where does he rank in the best players for St Kilda: Probably only top 5, I'd have Lockett, Harvey and Baldock ahead of him. Stewart and Roo can toss for 4th and 5th.

Where does he rank as the greatest Saint: Right near the top, possibly best ever. His leadership, his loyalty, the impact on the culture of the club, and to be the figurehead thru probably our most successful era, who knows what shape the club would be in now if Roo had never come along. The money and the offers that must have come for him, especially when the Gold Coast were ramping up, must have been massive, and he stayed when nobody in the footy world would have blamed him if he'd walked out.

I hope in 20/50/100 years time we look back on the Roo era as the turning point where the Saints went from perennial basketcase to successful professional outfit. As great as Harvs was, or Barks, or Doc, I don't feel like they have left the legacy that Roo ultimately will. Barker maybe, but nobody else.

Great post, St Chris.

[skeptic]

This thread suggests one thing,

Robert Harvey is even underrated by his own supporters?

To achieve what he did, for the length of time he did, truly remarkable!

He was the best midfielder (where games are actually won) for over a decade... He was the best player in the league for a few years... In a year where Lockett won the goalkicking with his highest ever tally, Harves won the B&F

Lockett rates him the best he ever saw, and he played for 15 years

Harvey held the record (don't count Double vote getter in 76/77 Dempsey and Matthews) for vrownlow votes for a reason
Best player IMO

I don't know if suggesting that Lockett and Baldock are better means he is underrated

[Sainternist]

If we had have won either of those two GFs, he would be #1 right now, without question!

[saynta]

I haven't underrated Banger at all

To be rated 5th best ever in front of Lenny, Big Carl Nicky and Barks is certainly not down grading him.


My top 5.

1. Plugger
2. Roo
3. Doc
4. Stewie. (Ian)
5. Banger

Certainly Plugger told me that banger was the best player he ever played with, but some years latter he had jumped on the Paul Kelly bandwagon.

The doc used to win games off his own bat, but roo is now doing that and for far longer than the doc.

So in my view he has overtaken both the doc and Stewart.

[Sainternist]

1. Plugger
2. Roo
3. Doc
4. Stewie. (Ian)
5. Banger

That seems about right to me. Of course you got to see all of those players. Doc and Stewie were just a little before my time.

[saynta]

1. Plugger
2. Roo
3. Doc
4. Stewie. (Ian)
5. Banger

That seems about right to me. Of course you got to see all of those players. Doc and Stewie were just a little before my time.

Yep, I certainly did and I was in the rooms before and after Carl's first game. We are the same age/

Ian Drake was beside himself with glee.

Saw the doc's first game also.

Muir, Georgie Young, Burns and McIntosh also rate highly with me.

Muir could have been anything. Racial taunts and a fiery temper ensured we never saw the best of him.

Barks was well, just Barks. At one stage I thought one of my daughters might just snag him. Wasn't to be, although he could have become Hafey's son in law.

Stewie Loewe, Barry Pascoe and Barry Lawrence also should get honourable mentions in a thread like this.

Champions all.

[happy feet]

1. Plugger
2. Roo
3. Doc
4. Stewie. (Ian)
5. Banger

That seems about right to me. Of course you got to see all of those players. Doc and Stewie were just a little before my time.

Yep, I certainly did and I was in the rooms before and after Carl's first game. We are the same age/

Ian Drake was beside himself with glee.

Saw the doc's first game also.

Muir, Georgie Young, Burns and McIntosh also rate highly with me.

Muir could have been anything. Racial taunts and a fiery temper ensured we never saw the best of him.

Barks was well, just Barks. At one stage I thought one of my daughters might just snag him. Wasn't to be, although he could have become Hafey's son in law.

Stewie Loewe, Barry Pascoe and Barry Lawrence also should get honourable mentions in a thread like this.

Champions all.

I neglected to mention Robbie Muir. I remember him giving North Melbourn's dual Brownlow Medallist Keith Greig a football lesson one day at Morrabbin.

[BigMart]

I am staggered how a person who played 7 seasons, and 119 games
Or
8 seasons and 127 games

Can be compared to people that have played 240-380 games
I mean, if you just took one section of Harves

And another thing that interests me is the term skill? I think most consider football skill being a good mark or good kick ... ie/Winmar
But really, the most important is winning the football, and then ensuring the next disposal is from a team mate.. effectiveness

I'd consider Sam Mitchell the most skilled modern day player
Harvey the most skilled Saints player I've seen... he's dominated MORE games than any other saint by a margin
He is credited with something like 50 BOGS

[Vazelos]

1. Lockett
2. Riewoldt
3. Harvey
4. Baldock
5. Stewart
I didn't see the last 2 live but from all accounts legends of the game.
At his zenith no one passes Lockett, just a genuis.
Riewoldt at 34 is a freak. He and Harvey for loyalty, longevity and consistent brilliance.
Special mention to Nicky Winmar who could easily be in that group.

[skeptic]

Just on a little side note... do you think Lockett would do well in today's game?

Harvey in his prime could pbly walk into this team and win the Brownlow

[saynta]

I am staggered how a person who played 7 seasons, and 119 games
Or
8 seasons and 127 games

Can be compared to people that have played 240-380 games
I mean, if you just took one section of Harves

And another thing that interests me is the term skill? I think most consider football skill being a good mark or good kick ... ie/Winmar
But really, the most important is winning the football, and then ensuring the next disposal is from a team mate.. effectiveness

I'd consider Sam Mitchell the most skilled modern day player
Harvey the most skilled Saints player I've seen... he's dominated MORE games than any other saint by a margin
He is credited with something like 50 BOGS

The doc was brilliant. Best ball handler i ever saw, bar none.

Stewie won three brownlows. In a class of his own.


The doc and stewart won us a premiership. The only one.

I love banger. Fantastic footballer.

We have been extremely lucky to have watched all three play. Magic.

People are entitled to rate them however they see it.

At one stage Ditterch was rated no 2 .

No one can rubbish amy saints supporter who may rate any of the top 5 in any order they see fit. They are all champions.

Plugger and Stewart left the club so overall, Roo has been the best sainter of them all, just not on pure footballing ability.

By the time he leaves/retires, he may be the undisputed no 1. I love the guy.

Someone wants to rate them in a different order? Okay by me.

[BigMart]

Lockett would walk into any side these days.... and he's 51yo

Seriously though,

Better than any of the contemporaries that play a similar position by the length of the Flemington Straight
Hawkins, Cloke, Bruce, Darcy M, Joe D, Sam Reid

Locket would kick 125 every year if he was at Etihad

[saintsRrising]

How many games a more modern legend plays compared to the legends of yesterday is a pretty meaningless factor to use to compare them.

Players from yesterday:
- Would often start at the club later. ie Baldock was say about 24?
- Were paid a pittance - So would often retire early to earn more money by either starting a "real job" or play in country leagues which actually could pay better
- Did not have access to modern medical practices and rehab, and so injury often prematurely ended careers.

It is better I think to consider how a players was rated for their era and then to compare that.

That is not to say that longevity in the game should not be well regarded. But to say that Baldock was not as good as say Lockett purely based on games played is not relevant to me.

Lockett was just out and out awesome at his peak. Many forget that he played most of his games against multiple opponents. One Dons game Sheedy had 4 Dons dedicated to the task. Yes other full forwards also had to sometimes beat multiple opponents, but never as often or as many as Lockett had to. LockeHe intimadated not just his opponent, but the whole opposite team! A highly skilled kick includling being deadly accurate on goal, great and powerful mark, quick burst lead, good ground skills

Roo is a modern freak in being a big player to play so well for so long. Harvey was long lived too, but generally more mids last longer. Both players work-rates sets them apart from other players.


Lockett
Riewoldt
Baldock
Harvey
Stewart

[Zed]

I started following the saints n 1988 at age 21. Prior to that I followed another AFL club.

Why did I switch teams ? ...in 1988 I started going to watch Plugger at every game I could get to. Such was his influence on me that it made me switch allegiances. So he is #1 for me. Almost a dead heat between Harvey and Roo for #2, but I give it to Banger because I don't think I hardly ever saw him get mad at his team mates , he just kept going and going trying to win the game . Roo very similar but if you compare them, perhaps Banger had the better temperament.

[BigMart]

I'll preface this by saying I'm from the same place as Darryl, he is a Tassie Icon

But, his career at StK is a little overrated.... a poster suggested he and Stewie won us a flag... that's what I'm saying

Side had
Rossy, Cooper, Verdun, Murray, Cowboy, Griffiths, Davis... some guys who could play a bit

Darryl was indeed Magic, from 62-65 he was at his peak, but struggled with a knee after that... he was very good still, but was not really in StKs top 3 players 66-68. Imo Stewart, Ditterich and Smith probably were.

His feats in Tassie prior to going to the mainland are a lot of the reason he is so reverred...

Really, 3 B&Fs ...119 games... 1 flag.... and around the mark as the best player in that time... but is that CV enough to be considered as one of our greatest
Compare that to Leigh Matthews... 330 games, 900 goals, 8 B&Fs, 4 Flags - that's a CV

Of Course
Lockett and Stewart went elsewhere to finish their careers... that part can't be counted

[stonecold]

So, your 43years of age if I'm correct????? Did you see Doc play in your previous life, would have thought so with such great knowledge on the Doc?????

[White Winmar]

I haven't underrated Banger at all

To be rated 5th best ever in front of Lenny, Big Carl Nicky and Barks is certainly not down grading him.


My top 5.

1. Plugger
2. Roo
3. Doc
4. Stewie. (Ian)
5. Banger

Certainly Plugger told me that banger was the best player he ever played with, but some years latter he had jumped on the Paul Kelly bandwagon.

The doc used to win games off his own bat, but roo is now doing that and for far longer than the doc.

So in my view he has overtaken both the doc and Stewart.

It's a fair cop, Guv. Have to agree except swap Banger and Stewie.