40.54. The numbers don't lie.

[White Winmar]

Threw away an invaluable win last week. Threw away invaluable percentage today. 16 more scoring shots today. Should've won by ten goals plus. This has been a seemingly perennial problem at the saints. Why? Coupled with our ordinary field kicking, we are simply handing opportunities for the opposition to slip the noose and punish us. In the coming weeks, we face the filth, Hawthorn, Geelong, GWS and Sydney. None of those sides are anywhere near as bad as Brisbane, who lacked the skill to exploit us. On today's performance our season will be done and dusted by round 8.

Any suggestions as to how to fix this? Our kicking last year, while not great, was certainly better than what we've seen this year. One of our anticipated weapons by foot, JB, can't seem to get enough of the ball. The others are average or worse by foot so far. Confidence, technique or both? Thoughts?

[Impatient Sainter]

Its no different to our field kicking we are the worst skilled team in the league! Wont change without the recruitment of numerous highly skilled mids and we get rid of the GOP's.

[bigcarl]

Twenty two marks inside 50 to six.

[Winmar]

The positive is that we're scoring a lot. If kicking can straighten some big scores beckon. However at the moment it's like a couple of years ago when we kicked badly every week. It could have cost us the game today if Brisbane's good spell had continued.

[WellardSaint]

Waiting for Moses to come onto the members email with the strong n positive cliches

[BigMart]

Key Forwards

1.4
1.3
3.2
0.0

5.9.39

Woeful

Small Forwards missed goals also

Weller, Lonie, Gresham

[White Winmar]

42% goal kicking accuracy. That's a disgrace for elite level professionals. Don't we have Lindsay Gilbee, one of the best kicks in the competition when he played and a supposedly excellent coach, on our staff? Is he too tied up at Sandy. How's Sandy's kicking accuracy going?

[Johnny Member]

42% goal kicking accuracy. That's a disgrace for elite level professionals. Don't we have Lindsay Gilbee, one of the best kicks in the competition when he played and a supposedly excellent coach, on our staff? Is he too tied up at Sandy. How's Sandy's kicking accuracy going?

What on earth is Lindsey Gilbee going to do to fix the team's goal licking?

Seriously, the amount of magic that people think coaches are capable of is alarming.



FWIW, our lack of polish in front of goal is not simply about technique, it's merely a reflection of our deeper issues as a team.

[Johnny Member]

Do we expect to be a poorly skilled team every week, in every position, for 3 years - but suddenly have Lindsey Gilbbe step in once a week and make them all great kicks for goal?


Please.

[Trev from the Bush]

Get Plugger down here!

[BigMart]

What's Lindsay Gilbee got to do with it?

1/ he's the Sandringham Coach... not a goal kickicking coach

2/ yes, he was a great kick, how does that help our team... he's not playing?!

Why do people actually think a great component of a skill can automatically make others the same... what a stupid notion

Like... Hamill will make all our forwards tough... what crap that is...

[Freebird]

I think you will find St Kilda were first in disposal efficiency last year

[BigMart]

Kicking or disposal

I'd like to see the stats where are they

[White Winmar]

42% goal kicking accuracy. That's a disgrace for elite level professionals. Don't we have Lindsay Gilbee, one of the best kicks in the competition when he played and a supposedly excellent coach, on our staff? Is he too tied up at Sandy. How's Sandy's kicking accuracy going?

What on earth is Lindsey Gilbee going to do to fix the team's goal licking?

Seriously, the amount of magic that people think coaches are capable of is alarming.



FWIW, our lack of polish in front of goal is not simply about technique, it's merely a reflection of our deeper issues as a team.

I merely posed the question of if he might be able to contribute. I didn't demand he do it, or that he could "magically" fix it. He has been a skills coach and a very good one at that, I'm told. Hence he now has progressed to the senior job at Sandy. It would appear the club has a good deal of faith in his teaching ability. Nothing to do with "magic". FWIW why don't you offer your incredible insights to the club as a professional consultant, Johnny? You seem to be convinced of your own expertise, the most common attribute consultants have.

BTW, please enlighten us as to what deeper "issues" the team has that affect its goal kicking. I'm sure as the players are lining up for goal, they're thinking about problems with the game plan, our lack of pace, the poor form of some, who the coaches favourites are, etc. They also obsess this way in the split second they have when snapping for goal, or trying to score on the run. This should be good. Perhaps you could write it down and send it to AR. I'm sure he and his team of experts would love to know what you can see that they're missing. Good luck with your endeavours. Toodle pip!

[Johnny Favier]

Kicking or disposal

I'd like to see the stats where are they

Only up to round 18 but > https://www.zerohanger.com/which-club-h ... 2016-6248/

[WellardSaint]

42% goal kicking accuracy. That's a disgrace for elite level professionals. Don't we have Lindsay Gilbee, one of the best kicks in the competition when he played and a supposedly excellent coach, on our staff? Is he too tied up at Sandy. How's Sandy's kicking accuracy going?

What on earth is Lindsey Gilbee going to do to fix the team's goal licking?

Seriously, the amount of magic that people think coaches are capable of is alarming.



FWIW, our lack of polish in front of goal is not simply about technique, it's merely a reflection of our deeper issues as a team.

I agree with you.
When they're lining up, Bruce is thinking "why is my designated car bay at Seaford so far from the entrance, and Nathan Brown gets one right in front?" Skunk is distracted by thoughts of his next ink, Dunstan is concerned with whether to have stir-fry or a spag bol tonight, and the Gresh was today thinking of that nice 23-year-old kindy teacher that his mum wants him to meet.
Deeper issues at the club...

[bigcarl]

I see Richo said they are going to do a lot more work on their set shots, goals on the run and snaps. Good call.

It's hard to replicate match-day conditions and pressure in training, but ironing out any mechanical and techniqual issues will pay off long term

[Johnny Member]

42% goal kicking accuracy. That's a disgrace for elite level professionals. Don't we have Lindsay Gilbee, one of the best kicks in the competition when he played and a supposedly excellent coach, on our staff? Is he too tied up at Sandy. How's Sandy's kicking accuracy going?

What on earth is Lindsey Gilbee going to do to fix the team's goal licking?

Seriously, the amount of magic that people think coaches are capable of is alarming.



FWIW, our lack of polish in front of goal is not simply about technique, it's merely a reflection of our deeper issues as a team.

I merely posed the question of if he might be able to contribute. I didn't demand he do it, or that he could "magically" fix it. He has been a skills coach and a very good one at that, I'm told. Hence he now has progressed to the senior job at Sandy. It would appear the club has a good deal of faith in his teaching ability. Nothing to do with "magic". FWIW why don't you offer your incredible insights to the club as a professional consultant, Johnny? You seem to be convinced of your own expertise, the most common attribute consultants have.

BTW, please enlighten us as to what deeper "issues" the team has that affect its goal kicking. I'm sure as the players are lining up for goal, they're thinking about problems with the game plan, our lack of pace, the poor form of some, who the coaches favourites are, etc. They also obsess this way in the split second they have when snapping for goal, or trying to score on the run. This should be good. Perhaps you could write it down and send it to AR. I'm sure he and his team of experts would love to know what you can see that they're missing. Good luck with your endeavours. Toodle pip!

The deeper issues are that they're not very good players.

Players fumble, miss targets by hand and foot and make poor decisions almost as a rule.

Very good players such as Riewoldt do it far, far less.


That's because he's a very good player. The others aren't.


Sadly, coaches can't and don't fix that. They can hide it sometimes, and create a game style that masks it to a degree, but players with ordinary skill levels that are in their 20s and have always had ordinary skill level - will continue to have ordinary skill levels.

[Johnny Member]

I think you will find St Kilda were first in disposal efficiency last year

It's yet another misleading stat IMO.


"Effective long kick - a kick of more than 40 metres to a 50/50 contest or better for the team"


So basically you can kick long to a bloke in the clear by 20m but execute poorly, and allow his opponent to get there in time for a 50/50 contest, when it should have been an uncontested mark - and you get yourself an 'Effective Disposal'.

Or you can kick a long ball to Riewoldt's ankles instead of his chest and get an 'Effective Disposal'.


It also doesn't take into account poor decision making.

[Jacks Back]

What's Lindsay Gilbee got to do with it?

1/ he's the Sandringham Coach... not a goal kickicking coach

2/ yes, he was a great kick, how does that help our team... he's not playing?!

Why do people actually think a great component of a skill can automatically make others the same... what a stupid notion

Like... Hamill will make all our forwards tough... what crap that is...

What's the point of getting Plugger to the Swans or Hudson down to the Saints (who straightened up Loewe beautifully - by the way), if not to help the players in their field of excellence.

[Johnny Member]

What's Lindsay Gilbee got to do with it?

1/ he's the Sandringham Coach... not a goal kickicking coach

2/ yes, he was a great kick, how does that help our team... he's not playing?!

Why do people actually think a great component of a skill can automatically make others the same... what a stupid notion

Like... Hamill will make all our forwards tough... what crap that is...

What's the point of getting Plugger to the Swans or Hudson down to the Saints (who straightened up Loewe beautifully - by the way), if not to help the players in their field of excellence.

There's a point, if you're able to improve a technical issue.

But if the same players that miss targets due to a general lack of ability, are also missing goals, then a coach showing them how to prepare for set shots is really going to do very little. Of the 10 behind scorers - 7 were not key forwards.



FWIW, Josh Bruce could do with some technique coaching as he doesn't seem to be able to control the curve of the ball. He once could - but can't now. Granted he gets plenty of his shots from terrible parts of the ground which make it tough for him, but I definitely think he has a technique problem.

Membrey is just mentality fragile in front of goal and the rest just mimic their general lack of skill all over the ground when in front of goal.



Seeing Dayne Beams get the pill and cruise to 50m and easily slot the goal on the run - then seeing Newnes have a shot from 50m and not even make the distance, then see Acres do the same thing as Beams but not make the distance either, really highlighted the lack of top talent we have.

If Gilbee or any skills coach can teach a guy with limited ability to suddenly be able to drill goals from 50 under pressure when the game is still in the balance, then I'd be very surprised.

[BigMart]

Membrey, technically is a beautiful kick... But can fall apart mentally

Bruce, gets the ball in poor areas, low percentage

Roo, horrible set shot or over the mark technique ... But lovely on the move, or snap

McCartin... Terrible ball drop, almost a two hand drop.

[White Winmar]

So the question of deeper issues relates to why players are suddenly kicking like drunks. Why is Membrey, acknowledged last year as our best set shot for goal suddenly missing from 20 metres on several occasions this year? Why is Josh Bruce suddenly unreliable after nailing shot after shot in 2015. Why did Mav miss shots yesterday that he aced last year? And so on.

The one guy who has improved his goal kicking this year is Roo. You'd think as the younger players develop, they'd get better, not worse. Is this a question of confidence? With the form we showed late last year and in the JLT cup, with even the way we started against Melbourne, we've played and kicked much better than the last 11 quarters have shown. What happened? Have we collectively dropped our "kicking bundle after 1/4 time of the Melbourne game?

There is a lot of doom and gloom on here after a solid win yesterday. Maybe we got a bit ahead of ourselves, but good players don't lose thoir ability overnight. Yes, round one was disappointing, but anomalies are most likely to occur in round one. I think that was one. Melbourne has hardly looked flash since. They, and especially Gawn, caught us at the right moment. TBH we should've beaten WCE comfortably, but for shite finishing and yesterday we had 16 more scoring shots and threw away a five goal lead during the game. We should've won by 60 points plus. So, in patches, we've been very good. The kicking is a huge worry, though. Which one's easier to fix? Technical or psychological?

[bigcarl]

Which one's easier to fix? Technical or psychological?

As a keen golfer who occasionally yips short putts, I'd say they are intertwined. You miss a couple of short ones and all of a sudden the hole looks the size of a thimble.

So you need to sort out the technical issues first and the rest is largely confidence

In Membrey's case yesterday he stabhed at a couple rather than kicking through them. That's a technical issue caused by pressure.

[White Winmar]

Membrey, technically is a beautiful kick... But can fall apart mentally

Bruce, gets the ball in poor areas, low percentage

Roo, horrible set shot or over the mark technique ... But lovely on the move, or snap

McCartin... Terrible ball drop, almost a two hand drop.

McCartin worries me less than Bruce and Membrey. He's never been a great kick for goal, even in his junior days. He needs to work hard to improve on that area and hopefully will. Bruce in 2015 and Membrey last year were very good with their goal kicking. Both have the wobbles up. Why? Psychological pressure?

That was the issue for Roo, post 2006. Up to that point he was a dead eye dick with the set shot. I think after that he got the wobbles up, because it was as though he carried the team's entire fortunes on his shoulders every time he lined up. Just a theory. Once Kosi was diminished, Fraser and Hamill went, he was our go to man and I think it showed. He has looked more relaxed and has kicked his set shots better these past two years because he now has some quality company again. Just a theory. Perhaps the boys need to get on the couch for a spell or two.