How do we improve our midfield?

[Johnny Member]

You asked the question, JM and I answered it. They pinched unexpected flags. Using new tactics (Clarkson's cluster, Bevo's handball and they both were bold at selection, sticking with kids and someone like Dew, who no one else wanted. (Fairly clear, I would've thought). I suspect you didn't like the answer, hence the long and rambling reply, full of confirmation bias and irrelevant arguments. We used to have a saying in the Homicide Squad. If you get a long, rambling letter from a lawyer that is full of denials, irrelevant arguments and attacks on strong points of evidence, just relax and know you'll be ok. When you get a lawyer's letter that is a few sentences long, panic, because he knows he's got some dynamite in his brief.

Ummm, we're on a footy forum. Not in the Homicide Squad.

I'm not trying to 'set you up' with some 'dynamite'.

I find wankers that resort to that style of posting either end up banned, or pretty much ruin every thread they participate in. That's not my style. If it's yours - good luck to you.



But I asked you as question, and you didn't answer it.

Your response as to how Clarkson and Beveridge were 'risk takers' in their development of a team and a strategy, was that they pinched unexpected flags. As I replied, that result alone doesn't support your argument one iota.

A good example is your assertion that if Crameri and Murphy had played they would've had their oldest 18 out there. But they didn't play, Johnny, reMEMBER? If your Aunty had balls she'd be your uncle. So what is your point? Nonsense disguised as an attempt to argue? ]

Errr, Crameri was suspended and couldn't play. He was in the team every week when he was available, and was straight back in the moment his suspension ceased. Fair to say he would have been in the team. Ditto Murphy.

How is replacing them with younger players a risk? What choice did they have? As I stated, their 18 oldest guys were already in the team every week - there was no one else to replace them with but young guys. The only time young guys were given opportunities was when the older guys that Beveridge played every week were unavailable.

Didn't take a chance on Boyd and Daniel? Not just on GF day, but throughout the year in order to prepare and develop them. Daniel was, in the opinion of many, 'too small" and was drafted in the 40's. Boyd was consistently derided as the most expensive dud in history until the PF. Bevo persisted with both. That's called risk taking.

You're joking right??

Playing Boyd, a number 1 draft pick that you've just paid $1m for, is a risk??

McCartin played 11 games last year, and missed more than a month through injury - Boyd played 15.


Daniel is 20yo, weighs 71kgs and is 168cm tall. He was drafted at pick 46 in the 3rd round. He has played 35 games in his career.

Jack Lonie is 20yo, weights 71kgs and is 174cms tall. He was drafted at pick 41 in the 3rd round. He has played 28 career games - 3 less than Daniel prior to the finals series last season.



Do you see how silly your 'these other guys are risk takers and we're not' cries are?

And Clarko's Cluster? You seem to be the only person in the football world who doesn't laud him for it. Doesn't suit your argument to admit it was bold and innovative, does it? A brave attempt, but alas no cigar.

I laud him for it.

My point is that it didn't work for 4 years, until guys like Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, etc. etc. matured. They practised the same plan, over and over and over again for years until they perfected it. No risks, no knee-jerk reaction to losses, no panic when they nearly won the wooden spoon and were struggling, no panic when the media and the fans were screaming that Clarkson didn't know what he was doing - they kept repeating the same game plan over and over again. Until they were mature enough, and good enough to execute it.

And as we see now, they don't have the cattle and suddenly Clarkson's tactical genius and supposed 'risk taking' seems to have disappeared.

Of course it hasn't, it's exactly the same as it's always been - they just don't have the cattle to execute it.

[White Winmar]

Again, so simply don't like the answer. You have no logical or reasonable argument to refute it, only a slightly snide aside about posting style. Perhaps you consider me a wanker, however this smacks of an attempt to have a slash at me, rather than the argument. Maybe you've been waiting to flame me. You could've picked a better thread to do it in, with a considered and structured argument that dismantles mine. There is a touch of Don Quixote about your posts on this topic. Tilting at windmills. I know this is a footy forum, so you'll be triggered to a popular literary reference, but bear with me.

The irony is that your posting style in this thread is exactly of the nature you deride. If you can't understand simple analogies then there's really no point pretending you understand a simple argument, which mine is. Boyd not a risk? Most experts thought he was. No one picked him to play in the ruck, either. Daniel? They keep playing him and did when his form was less than great. Lonie has now played two in a row. It remains to be seen how many opportunities he gets.

As for replacements for Murphy and Crameri, neither of us know who actually took their spots. I'm sure you're not an insider at the WB's, nor are you on the selection committee. Crameri was out for the whole year, so introducing him into the argument was simply stupid. Murphy was out for the year as well, so neither of them had any hope of playing. Bizarre attempt to justify a nonsensical argument. Maybe their hand was forced to an extent, but they could've played a number of more experienced players. Several of those played in the Footscray premiership.

Clarkson's risk taking and tactical genius disappeared has it JM ?They finished one kick from a preliminary final last year. They've lost one game this year. Bit early to write them off. A bit of a knee jerk reaction from yourself, I'd say. I hardly think suggesting AR plays Acres, McKenzie and a couple of others is a knee jerk. I see he agrees with one of my other posts by including Acres and McCartin this week. Good to see. Let's hope he persists with them rather than sending them back to Sandy after one game. Last year Acres had 33 touches and got dropped. That could be considered knee jerk. AR's a good teaching coach. So was RL. Richo needs to be an upgrade on Ross if we are to salute. No more Tom Lynch's please.

2018 is when we should be aiming. I've stated this a number of times. Seeing as I'm waiting another year for results, repeatedly back the coach and his staff, and praise the recruitment and list management, I doubt you could reasonably include me amongst the knee jerk era. Refer to my post entitled, "Short Memories". Have a read and you'll see how much of a knee jerk reaction I had.

[Johnny Member]

Again, so simply don't like the answer. You have no logical or reasonable argument to refute it, only a slightly snide aside about posting style. Perhaps you consider me a wanker, however this smacks of an attempt to have a slash at me, rather than the argument. Maybe you've been waiting to flame me. You could've picked a better thread to do it in, with a considered and structured argument that dismantles mine. There is a touch of Don Quixote about your posts on this topic. Tilting at windmills. I know this is a footy forum, so you'll be triggered to a popular literary reference, but bear with me.

The irony is that your posting style in this thread is exactly of the nature you deride. If you can't understand simple analogies then there's really no point pretending you understand a simple argument, which mine is. Boyd not a risk? Most experts thought he was. No one picked him to play in the ruck, either. Daniel? They keep playing him and did when his form was less than great. Lonie has now played two in a row. It remains to be seen how many opportunities he gets.

As for replacements for Murphy and Crameri, neither of us know who actually took their spots. I'm sure you're not an insider at the WB's, nor are you on the selection committee. Crameri was out for the whole year, so introducing him into the argument was simply stupid. Murphy was out for the year as well, so neither of them had any hope of playing. Bizarre attempt to justify a nonsensical argument. Maybe their hand was forced to an extent, but they could've played a number of more experienced players. Several of those played in the Footscray premiership.

Clarkson's risk taking and tactical genius disappeared has it JM ?They finished one kick from a preliminary final last year. They've lost one game this year. Bit early to write them off. A bit of a knee jerk reaction from yourself, I'd say. I hardly think suggesting AR plays Acres, McKenzie and a couple of others is a knee jerk. I see he agrees with one of my other posts by including Acres and McCartin this week. Good to see. Let's hope he persists with them rather than sending them back to Sandy after one game. Last year Acres had 33 touches and got dropped. That could be considered knee jerk. AR's a good teaching coach. So was RL. Richo needs to be an upgrade on Ross if we are to salute. No more Tom Lynch's please.

2018 is when we should be aiming. I've stated this a number of times. Seeing as I'm waiting another year for results, repeatedly back the coach and his staff, and praise the recruitment and list management, I doubt you could reasonably include me amongst the knee jerk era. Refer to my post entitled, "Short Memories". Have a read and you'll see how much of a knee jerk reaction I had.

Sorry, but I can barely make sense of any of that.

Is it even a reply to my post?

If it is, you may want to re-read what I've written in this thread.

[White Winmar]

You're not going with that are you? I've specifically answered you twice. If that's the best you've got, then let's just leave it there. Given your posts, I'm not surprised you can't comprehend simple answers and facts that show how ridiculous your posts we're. I know it's a little embarrassing when your own style and knee jerk reaction is thrown back in your face and that you're obviously disappointed that I don't acknowledge your brilliance, but I'm afraid your last response shows you were merely trying to flame me and you failed miserably. I don't know what motivated you to post such nonsense in this thread, but it's pretty clear you just wanted to have a go. Two exchanges later you throw the toys out of the cot and take your bat and ball and go home. Sorry about the further analogies. I take it your head won't explode. What was that you mentioned about hijacking threads and Wankers? i don't have to re-read what you wrote. It's confusing rubbish that makes no sense and is a poor excuse for trying to disguise abuse.

[Playon]

Stop playing the same dour B- class mids all in the same middle.. Steele, armo, Dunstan, Ross..

Also don't play one of these on a wing..

There's no such thing as a 'wing' really anymore.


If anything, the new 'wing' is the corridor.

Teams use the wings to slow it down these days, and the corridor to move it quickly.

Impressive, do you mean to say that the quickest route between 2 points is a straight line? Do you suppose that the opposition might become aware of this? Hell I wish we had of known this 100 years ago

[Playon]

Are you talking about stoppages and center square?

Because almost every player is a midfielder these days.


Are you referring to improving stoppages?

I'm looking forward to carlisle, paddy, dempster, bruce and Brown contesting the centre square bounce.

Do you suppose it might be that all players are expected to contest for the ball? That doesn't make them midfielders

[Con Gorozidis]

We are stuck with Armitage and Dunstan for another 3 seasons which will be painful to watch.

My preference is we trade up our 1st round picks for a crack at Joel Garner.

[Scollop]

I don't know the answer but I don't think we can afford to reward poor performances. Drop blokes that are not hitting their targets. Drop mids that get disposal numbers of a forward or a backman. Drop blokes who can't run and spread. They will improve if their position in the team and their career is on the line.

I reckon, that by about Round 7 or just after Round 7 we'll be in a similar position to what Richmond were last year. That's when the heirachy will need to stop dreaming and realise that we've been delusional thinking that our current list was finals bound.

[HitTheBoundary]

Reading this thread I started wondering if it was round 16 and we were on the bottom.

We've only played one game........

[lewdogs]

The best way to improve the midfield in the short term is to rotate more players through there. Guys like Weller, Lonie, Gilbert, Wright (out this week), Webster, Savage, even Membrey, need to be able to go on the ball.

Last week was a terrible game though as almost all of our mids were off, but against top sides like the Dogs,GWS etc we will need more rotating mids or we will just get run off the park like last week.

[borderbarry]

At seasons end we should have a serious look at Tom Rockcliffe from Brisbane, 38 possies last week. For now, stop playing players out of form such as Lonie. He has been useless so far this season yet still gets picked. Many on here have Sinclair in front of him anyway. I do for one.
Yes our selectors need to be braver than they have so far this season. If I could find some way to promote him I would have given Marshall a run, and if Membrey doesnt have a good game I would give Battle a go. None of that is helping the midfield I know. I dont think we have the players at this stage. I think Long will make a difference, but when will tghey play him. He will be available next week, but because they only played him in one pre-season game he will probably need a couple at Sandy.

[bigcarl]

There's too much reliance on Hickey to play a blinder.

Hickey's a very good ruckman but there will be times, like last week, when he will be shaded. It happens to the best of them, even Gawn. So the midfield needs to be good enough to at least break even in that event.

Should we play two rucks? It may come to that but in the meantime I guess you could throw Bruce to chb and give Carlisle a run in the ruck.

[Bluthy]

Reading this thread I started wondering if it was round 16 and we were on the bottom.

We've only played one game........

Seaford if we have a big loss today

[saynta]

You have to, at least to a certain extent, JM, but the best do take risks and change things up. Beveridge and Clarkson come to mind. Lyon does not. Playing Acres, McKenzie and McCartin doesn't strike me as a knee jerk. A calculated gamble, with a real prospect of great reward.

What have Beveridge and Clarkson done to support your view?

I know one sure thing after watching the replay of the grannie last night. Beveridge can thank the guy who last year stood on Buddy's foot.

Buddy was awesome. Kicked 4 goals in a row with sheer brilliance. Pity he ran out of steam.