Better team and coach than 2010

[linz]

That's what gives me hope.

[SemperFidelis]

That's what gives me hope.

Iinz, we all hope you are right! But I'm not sure that is true for 2017.

I'd be only too happy to be proven wrong though!

[White Winmar]

I reckon you might be close, Linz. Maybe not quite yet, they still have to match that wonderful team in terms of performance, but I think that potentially, this crop is better overall than 2010. The coach is pretty good too.

[Con Gorozidis]

I reckon our overall list now is better than 2010 overall but in 2010 we had our 8-10 best payers who were absolute guns and would give their all every week to drag us over the line.

[desertsaint]

gee - roo, joey and dempster, all at their peak; add milne, lenny, chips, dal, and goddard also all at their peak.
The only other player on the current list that stands with them is stevens' almost namesake steven.. Our bottom ten is possibly stronger, but thats selling short too many that year, so make that our bottom five. I'm still wondering how that team didn't salute at least once.

[Darth Vader]

gee - roo, joey and dempster, all at their peak; add milne, lenny, chips, dal, and goddard also all at their peak.
The only other player on the current list that stands with them is stevens. Our bottom ten is possibly stronger, but thats selling short too many that year, so make that our bottom five. I'm still wondering how that team didn't salute at least once.

Brave early call on Koby there.

[dragit]

Isn't the 2010 side basically the same as the 2009 side?

That side won 19 games straight and narrowly lost a GF to one of the greatest sides of all time, then drew a GF the following year.

Until we have half a dozen AA players and start winning finals consistently we are a long way off 2009/2010.

[Sainter_Dad]

I think saying that we are currently a better side than 2009/10 is drawing a long bow - however - this side certainly has the very real chance of becoming that side!!! - We have greater depth across all lines, a deeper midfield, and a much better spread of talent.

The 2009/10 - is still the better team - but - I am actually more excited by the 2017 season than I was for the 2009/10 season, and that is even taking into consideration that I believed we could go one better in 2010 than we did in 2009. I am not saying this year we are going to win the big dance, but from an excitement level - we are building, and the lid is dangerously close to coming off!

[desertsaint]

gee - roo, joey and dempster, all at their peak; add milne, lenny, chips, dal, and goddard also all at their peak.
The only other player on the current list that stands with them is stevens. Our bottom ten is possibly stronger, but thats selling short too many that year, so make that our bottom five. I'm still wondering how that team didn't salute at least once.

Brave early call on Koby there.

haha, oops - fixed it...kinda.

[St Chris]

Really difficult to compare the 2 teams - we clearly have a much better spread than in 2010, but I don't think we have the cream the 2010 side had.

Round 1 2010 vs Probable Round 1 2017

B: Gram, Dawson, Gilbert
F: Wright, McCartin, Billings

HB: Baker, Blake, Goddard
HF: Weller, Bruce, Membrey

C: Montagna, Jones, Dal Santo
C: Newnes, Armitage, Riewoldt

HF: McQualter, Riewoldt, Schneider
HB: Roberton, Carlisle, Montagna

F: Gwilt, Koschitzke, Milne
B: Dempster, Brown, Geary

FOLL: McEvoy, Armitage, Ray
FOLL: Longer, Steele, Steven

I/C: King, Peake, Hayes, Geary
I/C: Savage, Dunstan, Gresham, McKenzie

EMG: Smith, Eddy, Pattison
EMG: Hickey, Acres, Stevens

The 2010 forward line vs today's back line match up really well, Roo would probably get off the leash against Carlisle though. Watching Milne and Geary go head to head would be intriguing.

Today's midfield probably edges 2010's as a whole unit, but Hayes, Montagna & Dal Santo were sublime.

The interchange and emergencies are a good indication of our depth today.

So it probably comes down to 2010's defence vs today's forwards. That back 6 was pretty solid, but so much defensive work was done up the ground, they very rarely defended against the ball coming in quickly, which is how we play today. If the ball coming in was slowed down, all of our key forwards would struggle going up against 2 or more defenders.

So in conclusion, I Dunno. What I do know is that we're gonna push the good sides this year, and absolutely belt some of the bad ones....

[stevie]

If the 2010 team played in this years comp they would prolly go through undefeated (depnding if you take into account the missing time Roo had) and win the GF by 6 or 7 goals.

The 2009 team would do the same thing but win the GF by 10 or 11 goals

[Johnny Member]

Whhhaaatttt!!????


Better team than 2010???!

[Johnny Member]

If the 2010 team played in this years comp they would prolly go through undefeated (depnding if you take into account the missing time Roo had) and win the GF by 6 or 7 goals.

The 2009 team would do the same thing but win the GF by 10 or 11 goals

The 2010 team, coached by anyone other than Lyon, would start raging favorites to win the flag.


Unbelievably good team on paper.

[stonecold]

Stevie Baker v Mav Weller, now that's a contest!!!!!

[Life Long Saint]

Probably better to compare groups rather than match them up.

Defenders:
2010: Gram, Dawson, Gilbert, Baker, Blake, Goddard
2017: Dempster, Brown, Geary, Roberton, Carlisle, Montagna
The 2017 is a much better defence for personnel and ball use. What made the 2010 defence so good was the game plan. 2010 has the precise kicking of BJ. Gram improved for a time but Dawson, Gilbert, and Blake were not great users of the footy.
Geary is probably the worst user of the footy in the 2017 group but that has improved over the last few years.

Midfielders:
2010: McEvoy, Armitage, Ray, Montagna, Jones, Dal Santo
2017: Hickey, Steele, Steven, Newnes, Armitage, Riewoldt
Some great top end talent in 2010 particularly when you add Hayes into the mix. But if falls away pretty quickly after that. The depth in 2010 was virtually non-existent.
The 2017 list doesn’t have the same top end talent but has many more players to go through there. Add Ross, Dunstan, Gresham, Stevens, McKenzie, Acres, and even Gilbert to that list. The ability to play Riewoldt on a wing in a bonus. Offers fantastic transition out of defence as a lead up target and still have the marking forwards as targets.

Forwards:
2010: Gwilt, Koschitzke, Milne, McQualter, Riewoldt, Schneider
2017: Gresham, McCartin, Billings, Weller, Bruce, Membrey
The 2010 list has the best small forward in the game in Milne but struggles after Riewoldt who spent a lot of time up the ground. Schneider offered great forward pressure but was not reliable in front of goal. Not even considering McQualter and Gwilt who offered very little other than defensive players.
Hard to replace the best small forward in the game but three strong talls with Billings and Weller are a great, young unit. Gresham is interchangeable with Wright and Dunstan. Riewoldt will also float down and provide a target.

Interchange:
2010: King, Peake, Hayes, Geary
2017: From - Savage, Dunstan, Wright, McKenzie, Gilbert, Stevens, Longer, and Acres

Overall, I think I like the depth and flexibility of the 2017 list. The 2010 list was about playing your role and Ross Lyon had a game plan that all but produced two flags. He recruited players that were able to execute that plan. Dawson, McQualter, Jones, Peake, Eddy, etc. were all able to execute to Ross’ plan but had massive deficiencies in their games.

[samoht]

Dawson, McQualter, Jones, Peake, Eddy, etc. were all able to execute to Ross’ plan but had massive deficiencies in their games.

I'm not sure how well they executed to Ross's plan - either that or Ross's plan was deficient in that it couldn't stop the opposition backlines from rebounding at will and becoming in effect a quasi-midfield.

So we often had two "midfields" to contend with at the end.

We were slow - even lowly Essendon had our measure in 2010. They ran the pants off us.

(We still could do with another outside midfielder - to help Steven out - but I think we've improved overall in the pace department.)

[perfectionist]

The only team that was better than our 2010 team was Collingwood (2010). And as far as the 2010 coach is concerned, our only better coach has been Allan Jeans - by one point.

[Linton Lodger]

If the 2010 team played in this years comp they would prolly go through undefeated (depnding if you take into account the missing time Roo had) and win the GF by 6 or 7 goals.

The 2009 team would do the same thing but win the GF by 10 or 11 goals

The 2010 team, coached by anyone other than Lyon, would start raging favorites to win the flag.


Unbelievably good team on paper.

The 2010 team without Lyon as Coach, would have finished about 6th in 2010. I think you're underrating Ross Lyon.

By the way, there is a good chance that our current team is better.

[Sainter_Dad]

Are people trying to say:

The 2017 team is clearly a better team than 2009/10!
The 2009/10 team had clearly better players in it!

I am hoping the better team goes one better than the team of better players

[Life Long Saint]

Are people trying to say:

The 2017 team is clearly a better team than 2009/10!
The 2009/10 team had clearly better players in it!

I am hoping the better team goes one better than the team of better players

I think that the 2010 had better top end talent but poorer low end talent.
The 2017 team is far more evenly spread.

We've failed many times under the 2010 model...1997, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.

[Johnny Member]

The only team that was better than our 2010 team was Collingwood (2010). And as far as the 2010 coach is concerned, our only better coach has been Allan Jeans - by one point.

I think that's far too simplistic.


As a sport, we've surely matured beyond measuring a coach's ability purely based on premierships won?

[Sainter_Dad]

Are people trying to say:

The 2017 team is clearly a better team than 2009/10!
The 2009/10 team had some clearly better players in it!

I am hoping the better team goes one better than the team of better players

Edited because I knew what I was trying to say

[saintbob]

gee - roo, joey and dempster, all at their peak; add milne, lenny, chips, dal, and goddard also all at their peak.
The only other player on the current list that stands with them is stevens' almost namesake steven.. Our bottom ten is possibly stronger, but thats selling short too many that year, so make that our bottom five. I'm still wondering how that team didn't salute at least once.

I agree our current bottom 5 or 6 would be stronger now, in saying that Milne, Lenny, chips, dal, and goddard would all be still walk up starters in our current side.

[saintbob]

gee - roo, joey and dempster, all at their peak; add milne, lenny, chips, dal, and goddard also all at their peak.
The only other player on the current list that stands with them is stevens' almost namesake steven.. Our bottom ten is possibly stronger, but thats selling short too many that year, so make that our bottom five. I'm still wondering how that team didn't salute at least once.

I agree our current bottom 5 or 6 would be stronger now, in saying that Milne, Lenny, chips, dal, and goddard would all be still walk up starters in our current side.

[prwilkinson]

Are people trying to say:

The 2017 team is clearly a better team than 2009/10!
The 2009/10 team had clearly better players in it!

I am hoping the better team goes one better than the team of better players

I think that the 2010 had better top end talent but poorer low end talent.
The 2017 team is far more evenly spread.

We've failed many times under the 2010 model...1997, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.

Yep, fair point. Overall... it's a very hard 22 to pick at St Kilda at the moment without feeling like you're leaving 5 or 6 players out. Considering a lot of those players are now between 20 - 50 games... Great signs for the list and the club.