Match Thread v Blues JLT 2

[shrodes]

missed the first half. was Acres even on in the second? if so, i missed him completely. how'd he go?

He was, didn't stand out though. Did a nice switch off half back to wide open teammates.

Who did the second ruck duties?

Good question, think I only saw Longer most of the day, Bruce was in there very late in the game.

[kosifantutti]

Billy is no. 1

Are we tanking?

[Jacks Back]

missed the first half. was Acres even on in the second? if so, i missed him completely. how'd he go?

They did the usual with 8cres as far as I could tell. He seemed to start on the bench in each quarter, come on half way through the qtr starting on a wing and went into the centre square for one bounce 1. And every time he started on one wing the ball would end up via the other wing. They are crucifying him.

[White Winmar]

Not sure if it was mentioned in this thread but how good was McClunken's 80m point off one step?
That penetration in his kick will be gold. I can see him marking anywhere from 50-90 out wheeling around and drilling it where ever he wants to Membrey, Bruce, or any midfielders streaming forward

That was a beauty, Goose. More glimpses of what is to come ...

Imagine how good Paddy will be when he starts kicking straight. It was a bit of a knock on him in U/18's. No problems getting it but inconsistent in front of goal. A bit like Rooey post 2005. The signs are all there, just start nailing the shots, Paddy!

[Bernard Shakey]

Have we played Carlton in a pre season game there since 2002?

If not, we won our last two games there against them by 91 and 92 points.

We played there in '07, it was Clint jones first game and he got leather poisoning. Didn't hit a target though!

I wasn't in the country at the time but Wikipedia doesn't mention it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NAB_Cup

Seeing we got knocked out in the first round it must have been a practice match. Was definitely Jones first appearance in red white and black. Can't remember who we played.

[spert]

Incredibly disappointing to watch the ABC news and see ZERO coverage of the game.

They covered absolutely everything else except our game.
They did the cricket.
They did the womens footy.
Then they did the ethnic game and even the womens soccer (featuring totally empty grandstands).
Then something about rugby.

But NOTHING on our game, not even a score.
Disgraceful.

You mean the SBC (Sydney Broadcasting Commission).

[sunsaint]

Incredibly disappointing to watch the ABC news and see ZERO coverage of the game.


Then they did the ethnic game and even the womens soccer (featuring totally empty grandstands).

But NOTHING on our game, not even a score.
Disgraceful.

Something that has been bugging me as well
May as well rename it the BBC

[White Winmar]

If it had been marketed as a "Pride" match it would've led the bulletin on the ABC.

[tony74]

Billy is no. 1

Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

[Goose is king]

Tony. Don't forget Hickey was awesome last year. His sky hook tap work was gold. He is also very good by hand and getting his hands free whilst getting tackled

[kosifantutti]

Tony. Don't forget Hickey was awesome last year. His sky hook tap work was gold. He is also very good by hand and getting his hands free whilst getting tackled

Hickey was like an extra midfielder last year.

[shrodes]

Billy is no. 1

Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

Ok, I don't get footy at all then. Holmes, a 27 year old convert to the game, higher in the pecking order than Hickey, who was one of the best ruckmen in the league last year.

[lennyhaze]

Billy is no. 1

Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

If Hickey is third he isn't important at all. I will go out on a limb and say Hickey is way ahead of Holmes. No idea why you think hickey isn't suited by the third man up rule and why he doesn't get contests and clearances. Are there stats to back this up.

[The Fireman]

Settle guys....all in vain...Johnny Member has written us off ... so just settle.

[st.byron]

Billy is no. 1

Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

Tony, I don't really understand why this is so. Would be grateful for you to flesh that out a bit. Why has that rule change shifted the balance so much? Tom was really really good last year and I think many of us were hoping he would step it up again this year to be one of the best all round ruckman in the game. Would have to go back to Spider Everitt I reckon to find our last really physically imposing, dominant ruckman. Gardi was good, but brief. I was really hoping to see Tom really impose himself on games with his tap work and around the ground presence. His combining with Jack Steven last year was superb.

[bigcarl]

If Hickey's been told he's the second or third choice ruckman this season - after last year's stand out performance - I'm not surprised he was less than impressive v Port Adelaide.

There would be nothing more demoralising than being shunted a few rings down the pecking order - particularly for a couple of guys you run rings around.

[prwilkinson]

I think 25 touches and 9 tackles for J.Steele. We've got a beauty there.

[tony74]

Billy is no. 1

Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

If Hickey is third he isn't important at all. I will go out on a limb and say Hickey is way ahead of Holmes. No idea why you think hickey isn't suited by the third man up rule and why he doesn't get contests and clearances. Are there stats to back this up.

[saintsRrising]

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

Holmsey No 2? C'mon you can't be serious. I still see little evidence that he can read the play that well.

[skeptic]

I'm going to have to chime in with everybody else here and say that I can't believe what I'm reading in regards to Hickey/Longer etc

Last year, Hickey was looking like essentially the best ruck in the league at times... or at least amongst the best few

How exactly has he lost his spot to 2 ruckman that have yet to prove they even deserve to be in the top 22?

[tony74]

Billy is no. 1

Seriously? AFter Hicks was top 5 last year? Billy has been good but not brilliant in these preseason games. Richo does love his big bodied, physical guys. I would be skeptical until R1 is selected. Richo could just be trying to get Hickey to take it to another level by telling him he's no. 2 presently. Unless they want to try Longer main ruck and Hickey in a fwd/relief ruck role. Hickey showed glimpses of that last year but wasn't particularly reliable. I'll believe Longer is 1 when I see it in round 1.

Since the third man up rule came in Billy is our main man at the ruck contests and the clearance work. To be honest Holmesy would be second. Hick is important, don't get me wrong, but if the game is all about the contest and clearances Billy gets the nod. Don't forget he was under a massive injury cloud most of last year.

Tony, I don't really understand why this is so. Would be grateful for you to flesh that out a bit. Why has that rule change shifted the balance so much? Tom was really really good last year and I think many of us were hoping he would step it up again this year to be one of the best all round ruckman in the game. Would have to go back to Spider Everitt I reckon to find our last really physically imposing, dominant ruckman. Gardi was good, but brief. I was really hoping to see Tom really impose himself on games with his tap work and around the ground presence. His combining with Jack Steven last year was superb.

Video analysis after video analysis after video analysis. We are talking about the ruck clearance. No third man up will hurt us. And I trust the expert and Skrobo knows his stuff. But please understand and I stress this. We are building a team where we have multiple players for every position. Every position. So one day at the end of September we have no weak links.

[BigMart]

Hickey

Did improve heaps, but best in the league??

Gawn
Goldstein
Sandilands
Jacobs
Martin
Mumford

Are we suggesting he sits in that group?
B&F winners
AA ruckmen
Statistically dominant ruckmen

I think Hick is in a group with
Grundy, Ryder, Zac Smith

[Bluthy]

Video analysis after video analysis after video analysis. We are talking about the ruck clearance. No third man up will hurt us. And I trust the expert and Skrobo knows his stuff. But please understand and I stress this. We are building a team where we have multiple players for every position. Every position. So one day at the end of September we have no weak links.

It's an interesting insight Tony. Do we as footy spectators get too carried away with those "down the throat" taps that lead to a deliciously clean takeaway. They look poetic in sports terms and stick in your mind as "now that is how rucking should be done" But how many times does that happen? - a pretty low % probs.

You look at a lot of the rucks that play in premiership teams and a lot are the big, physical, imposing kind - Keating, King, Mumford, even once-ours McEvoy. They are such a physical force in the fight for the contested ball - blocking, banging into players, landing on oppo mids to corky them, protecting the ball drop zone, using those big fat legs to stop hungry oppo mids burrowing in. In the congestion of finals in particular those "path-clearing" big units in ruck and forward line can be so damn valuable.

A query over Sandilands is whether his domination in tap work actually equates to clearances the way you would think they would. And even a guy like Goldstein who was thought of as the best ruck in the comp for a while - his team couldn't compete with the best midfields in the business. So whether that athletic, mobile type ruck who is great around the ground is actually the best ruck to have in the overall picture is a fair question.

The analysis obviously questions Hickey's ability to stand and wrestle with the strong rucks on his lonesome whereas last year he got a fair bit of support from 3rd man up. Roughhead from Dogs did well last year who was also a pretty athletic type ruck but he had Bont help him out a lot over the top.

I didn't give up on Longer - he had the shoulder reconstruction I think last year and then had concussion which takes quite a bit of time to get fully over. He was a number 8 pick for a reason and those big guys can take a lot of time to get all their limbs properly coordinated while running hard all over the field. I've always liked the different style of rucks we have on the list to cover the direction the game goes in - Longer, strong, physical - Hickey, athletic, skillful - Pierce - potential fwd - Holmes - great jumper.

Interesting times in Ruckville for Saints.

[kosifantutti]

Hickey

Did improve heaps, but best in the league??

Gawn
Goldstein
Sandilands
Jacobs
Martin
Mumford

Are we suggesting he sits in that group?
B&F winners
AA ruckmen
Statistically dominant ruckmen

I think Hick is in a group with
Grundy, Ryder, Zac Smith

I'm going to take a punt and guess you're responding to skeptic who said Hickey was looking like one of the best in the league "last year"
How many of those that you named won AA or B&F last year?
Gawn who Hickey played really well against. Any others?

[BigMart]

Martin is a b&f winner

Gawn and Goldstein are AA ruckmen with Goldy winning perhaps 2 b&fs

Jacobs and Mumford are perennial top 5 in b&fs and statistically very good

And Sandilands is a multiple b&f winner and 4 times AA

Hickey had a good year, perhaps finished top 10 in the b&f
He wasn't considered top 40 for AA selection
His numbers were good, very good but still well behind the elite of the comp