We're Just Not Good Enough

[Johnny Member]

Exactly! I wonder which other clubs drafted a Selwood, Bont, Judd or Roo with their rookie picks.

My point wasn't that we made draft errors as such, it was that we've been to the well, and I don't think we've managed to find A grade talent.

[saynta]

Exactly! I wonder which other clubs drafted a Selwood, Bont, Judd or Roo with their rookie picks.

My point wasn't that we made draft errors as such, it was that we've been to the well, and I don't think we've managed to find A grade talent.

Ross is already A grade talent and Gresham will soon join him.

[To the top]

Unless I'm missing something, Billings at 3 and McCartin at 1.

Then you get to Dunstan, Acres, Goddard and Gresham.

Plus Freeman - and where I have a feeling that he coming to St Kilda eventually was because he was on our radar at 3 (Billings).

So we remained interested.

With the "grunt" including the recent recruitment of Steele and Stevens, Billings will be an "outside" finisher.

Having said that, in these days of disruption football, you have to go when it is your turn so you can not just sit "outside" waiting to be fed.

Billings has a role model at the Club, being Montagna.

[Johnny Member]

Exactly! I wonder which other clubs drafted a Selwood, Bont, Judd or Roo with their rookie picks.

My point wasn't that we made draft errors as such, it was that we've been to the well, and I don't think we've managed to find A grade talent.

Ross is already A grade talent and Gresham will soon join him.

Ross is good. But in a comp where Fyfe, Dangerfield, Ablett, Bont, Sloane, Selwood, Pendlebury etc. are getting around, I think it's a stretch to include him as a A-grader.



Gresham seems to have the potential to be a genuine gun, but outside of that I worry we just don't have the genuine top end talent to seriously compete.

[prwilkinson]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... uopmt.html

Good read. Thought I'd post it here. They've ticked several boxes on that 2014 plan and with 2 first round picks locked away and salary cap space moving forward, I'd say they're giving themselves a chance to tick a few more. It's going to be great to see which players put their hand up and take the big step forward in 2017....

[BigMart]

There is some valid points there (that will not want to be heard) but it's far too early to tell if we are no good, or not going to be?

I think we have a tendancy to go early and blow our bolts over any kid who shows something, or on the flip side condemn

Some examples
Stanley- The next big thing
Siposs - Brendon who?
Luke Dunstan - Lenny Mark 2, even though he plays nothing like Lenny
Spencer White - Buddy mark 2
Blake Acres - the future N.Fyfe

Even
Gresham - who showed glimpses of brilliance, not as much as Lewis Taylor in his first year... he's all of a sudden the most talented kid in the afl? I remember him coughing up 2 match defining turn overs last season which balance out his freakish acts. One or two moments don't make a footballer. I'll wait until he's influencing whole games and not moments before I think he's a star

Brandon White - one game, he did ok and kicked a nice long goal against nobodies whilst running toward 50 with no defensive pressure. He seems like he's got some talent, but being earmarked as a future certainty is silly. Has a long way to go!
Referring to Billings 3 awesome quarters which he has played so far and rating his ability on that... he's played around another 200 quarters.

Fact is
Our best young players (although not real young) are Seb Ross and Jack Newnes as shown by their b&f finishes

Until
Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Goddard, Rice, White Gresham,McCartin
Start finishing top 5
Or even
Top 10 in the b&f

They haven't proven much at all



Right offs
Lonie and Sinclair
After proclaiming they were future guns in 2015
Now they are no good?

Geary gets written off every other week?
Armo is being questioned - in a poor year where he was unfit... he easily outperformed Dunstan
Gilbo - apparently kids are better than him... not sure they are
Dempster -
Is and has been our most underrated player for 5 years, along with Geary
All those talented kids could only hope to achieve their b&f results...

That old saying

Things are never good as they seem, or never had as they seem.

[WellardSaint]

I applaud the OP for bringing some refreshing opinions to this forum for discussion.
That word is important- discussion is what we do here, bringing opinions.
I agree with a lot of what JM says, and we all hope he is not 100% correct.
But I think a lot of us, secretly, tend to sort of agree with him but not the depth of his conviction.

JM is not a fanboi wearing rose-coloured glasses, he is looking through the cold harsh lens of reality.
Bravo, JM

[WellardSaint]

I do agree that Bruce and Paddy aren't doing enough marking- nowhere near enough.
The ball spills far too easily.
Others said Rooey is holding his marks so "it can't be a team rule".
I think Rooey goes for his marks because of his experience and fitness, his opponent is usually too tired to give a proper spoil.

Disappointing how Bruce and Paddy get into the right position but behave just like Beau Maister used to.

[Wayne42]

I do agree that Bruce and Paddy aren't doing enough marking- nowhere near enough.
The ball spills far too easily.
Others said Rooey is holding his marks so "it can't be a team rule".
I think Rooey goes for his marks because of his experience and fitness, his opponent is usually too tired to give a proper spoil.

Disappointing how Bruce and Paddy get into the right position but behave just like Beau Maister used to.

Beau Maister, that is harsh for any aspiring young player.

[Con Gorozidis]

As a result we bottomed out and had 2 x top 3 picks in succession.

We didn't get a Selwood. A Bont. A Judd. A Reiwoldt.

Instead, we got a Curren, a Templeton, a Sinclair, a Newnes etc. etc.

Which of Curren, Templeton, Sinclair and Newnes were top 3 picks?

3/4 were rookie picks....

[SMS]

Is this a joke?
Weve drafted fantastically.
Have some faith. Billinga has been injured. Hes all class. He didnt gonhard in a jtl game?? Oh no
Mccartins best smashed petracca did you not see his essendon game 2016?. He hasnt dominated yet but steady on hes a 19yo kpp of 17 games. And again jtl?? He got s*** delivery all night. That pass to membrey was amazing and elite. His taps to advantage and teamwork s***s all over petracca. Have some faith ffs.

As for dunstan?? Man this kid is the most UNDERATED OF ALL TIME. 21yo has done amazing jobs and is getting better. He will be agrader and seb ross too

What happens when we smash melbourne round 1, mccartin kicks 5 and petracca gets whalloped by our tough defence hardly touching it cause hes a pussy and only performs in bruise free jtls. Youll see.
Ross Amro Dunstan Steele will cream them in the middle.

NO OTHER TEAM has our balance going forward. We have an abundance of all positions and we will get our star in FA end of 2017 WE havent spent our money yet. Remember

[SMS]

BTW bit harsh on sinclair. I think he'll have a great year, has great class about him

[Johnny Member]

What happens when we smash melbourne round 1, mccartin kicks 5 and petracca gets whalloped by our tough defence hardly touching it cause hes a pussy and only performs in bruise free jtls. Youll see.
Ross Amro Dunstan Steele will cream them in the middle.

Well, nothing.


I'm not saying we're hopeless. I'm saying that we won't get any better than what we see this year. And, in my opinion, that won't be good enough to win a flag.

[kosifantutti]

Old iron hands.

[Wayne42]

I wish i'd read this shite before i paid for my 2017 membership..

[Jacks Back]

What happens when we smash melbourne round 1, mccartin kicks 5 and petracca gets whalloped by our tough defence hardly touching it cause hes a pussy and only performs in bruise free jtls. Youll see.
Ross Amro Dunstan Steele will cream them in the middle.

Well, nothing.


I'm not saying we're hopeless. I'm saying that we won't get any better than what we see this year. And, in my opinion, that won't be good enough to win a flag.

I re-watched our game against the Bulldogs from Round 18 last year (2016 - the game we won) and I thought some of our blokes really didn't do very much at all.

From the most ineffective player:
Sinclair, 8cres, Bruce, McKenzie, Wright, Gresham (new guy so cut him some slack). They didn't contribute. I just hope all those guys actually do get better this year especially 8cres because he does show some potential.

8cres starting on the bench in all four of the quarters in that game and not starting once in the centre square wouldn't have helped him you'd think.

As far as the marking goes in the JLT game I was thinking the same thing that why aren't McCartin and Bruce just wrapping their hands around the ball and clunking them instead of letting their opponent basically bunch the ball out of their forward facing flat hands?

[desertsaint]

I wish i'd read this shite before i paid for my 2017 membership..

haha. like.

[BigMart]

Why

Wouldn't you buy a membership if we weren't that good?

Also

I don't think using YouTube highlights actually proves anything?
I could put together a 1 minute Zac Dawson highlights package that makes him look like Alex Rance


We are not a bad team I reckon, but we are not the GWS list either

[The Fireman]

Exactly! I wonder which other clubs drafted a Selwood, Bont, Judd or Roo with their rookie picks.

My point wasn't that we made draft errors as such, it was that we've been to the well, and I don't think we've managed to find A grade talent.

how will your point of view be affected if we make finals this year ?

[lennyhaze]

Why

Wouldn't you buy a membership if we weren't that good?

Also

I don't think using YouTube highlights actually proves anything?
I could put together a 1 minute Zac Dawson highlights package that makes him look like Alex Rance


We are not a bad team I reckon, but we are not the GWS list either

That is so true but neither does the WB. If it is solely based on lists then no one can win the flag apart from GWS. Luckily there is more to a football club than just having the best 40 players.

[kosifantutti]

Why

Wouldn't you buy a membership if we weren't that good?

Also

I don't think using YouTube highlights actually proves anything?
I could put together a 1 minute Zac Dawson highlights package that makes him look like Alex Rance


We are not a bad team I reckon, but we are not the GWS list either

Baby steps BigMart. Learn to use the quote button first. Maybe in a couple of years you can tweet something then you might look at a simple YouTube.

So ignore the YouTube. Do you think Paddy can't/ won't mark?

[Johnny Member]

BTW bit harsh on sinclair. I think he'll have a great year, has great class about him

I hold really high hopes for him actually.

[Johnny Member]

Why

Wouldn't you buy a membership if we weren't that good?

Also

I don't think using YouTube highlights actually proves anything?
I could put together a 1 minute Zac Dawson highlights package that makes him look like Alex Rance


We are not a bad team I reckon, but we are not the GWS list either

That is so true but neither does the WB. If it is solely based on lists then no one can win the flag apart from GWS. Luckily there is more to a football club than just having the best 40 players.

But..... the Dogs do have the Bont - whom was freakishly good throughout the finals. A-grader who stepped up and impacted the game like only the A-graders do.

They also poached a No. 1 pick who ended up being BoG in the Grand Final. Liberatore is a genuine, consistently good A-grader at what he does too.


So they do have an even spread, and I'd argue that the Hunters, Dalhaus', Wallaces etc. aren't superstars and probably sit at a similar level to the bulk of our guys - but they have that cream at the top that I don't think we have. And as per the OP - I fear we won't develop.


Johannisen is a good example of what I'm trying to articulate. His development was steady and he looked like he'd be pretty good. He developed alongside the Hunters and Clay Smith's as the Bulldogs built a pretty even spread of young guys coming through together.

Like us.

But.....on the biggest stage when someone needed to have the ability to stand up and basically fulfil a level of talent that the others simply didn't posess - enter Johannisen. He turned out to be at the next level and that was what snared the Dogs the flag.

Without the performance of Boyd and Johannisen - they don't win. They just don't have the depth of top end talent to win a flag without it.



So, as per my OP - where is our top end talent going to come from? Who's the guy that will improve further to that next level when the rest of them taper off?

[Dis Believer]

laughed this crap off as soon as the OP started writing off a 20 year old KPF who has great hands......no clue

[dragit]

Ok, I'll admit it - I'm cynical about our prospects this season and beyond.

…outside of Gresham and last year's draftees - no one else will get much better than they will be this season.

I'm pretty cynical myself but this is pretty navel gazing stuff right here…

No one will get much better?

I'm tipping that plenty of these guys will get quite a bit better than their 2017 form - Acres, Steele, Goddard, Freeman, Billings, Battle, White, McCartin, McKenzie, Pierce, Sinclair, Lonie, Long.

Plus we have 2 first rounders this year and should be trying to add a gun FA.

Even if we aren't good enough this year, things can change very quickly.