Intra club - Thurs 16th 5 pm

[saintsRrising]

Tom Hickey has the skinniest legs I've seen on a bi bloke ever,

[Myron Gaines]

Tom Hickey has the skinniest legs I've seen on a bi bloke ever,

POTY

[BigMart]

Well, most bi blokes have thick legs

[saintbrat]

Well, most bi blokes have thick legs

mmmmm

Lewis has really changed his shape to thighs much stronger

[kosifantutti]

Sorry - got that round the wrong way. Hickey for Sandy, and Longer for Saints - all day! I think. I need a rest !

I knew what you meant. It was all a bit confusing with Hickey wearing 18. And Longer and Carlisle both wearing 2 for the Saints team.

[Bluthy]

Am also not 'expecting' finals this year. Optimism is boundless at this time of year and finals would be great but we may have another year of development required before we're there. We have a much much harder draw this year - 3rd hardest according to Champion Data. Am not necessarily looking for finals but for more development of our younger guys.

Regarding some who are being talked about as not being up to it or needing to step up, patience :

Acres - 21 y.o 26 games.
Lonie - 20 y.o 27 games
Gresham - 19 y.o 18 games
Billings 21 y.o 42 games - time for him to take another step but don't expect dominance
Membrey - awesome year last year but still only 30 games under his belt. Wont be surprised if he plateaus a bit.
Paddy - nearly 21. 17 games. Another development year for him. Don't expect him to rip games apart and dominate. More glimpses of elite potential and some solid games would be great.
Sinclair - just turned 22 y.o but still only 27 games.
D-Mac - being touted as the bolter for the year. Awesome if it happens, but still - 20 y.o 16 games.
Minch - is 23 y.o but still only 23 games.
Wright - 23 y.o 30 games.

With all of these guys, most of them 30 games or less, I want to see consistency rather than expecting them to dominate or become elite this year.
I want to especially see increased midfield depth and multiple options develop in most positions apart from key forwards and key defenders.

Sounds like you're getting your excuses ready for Richo Bryon. Every team, including top four teams, can list young players like you've listed. Richo has stacks of solid game, solid tank, solid body players now - Weller, Armo, Dunstan, Savage, Robbo, Gilbo, STevens, Brown, Carlisle, Webster, Bruce, Rooey and on and on. He chose to bring in Stevens, Brown and Carlisle who are all AFL primed. He has admitted he has the talent now and there are no excuses.

I would be more wiling to give Richo another year of outside top 8 if he had been playing more of the kids during his tenure but he hasn't done that as much as he could. This is the guy that took Schneider off the rookie list and played him all year remember. You can't now turn around and bemoan Sincs, Lonie & Wright not having enough games under their belt - can't have your cake and eat it too.

Now he's filled up the list with mature guys like Stevens and Brown and will probably play a backline of Demps, Carlisle, Geary, Joey, Brown & Gilbo. That is not an experimental, developing backline. That is a results orientated backline and he will be judged on wins and losses and top 8 or not playing that.

He's got some real talent on the list and young players come in much more ready for AFL than previously with the burgeoning professionalism of the junior system. We've seen a lot of very inexperienced players carve things up in only a few seasons. Yes there have been injury concerns with Paddy, Billings, Hugh and Blake setting them back a bit. But a lot of them for us will hit that 50 game mark this year (if they get played much) and should be able to handle the pace and physicality of the game letting their talent shine.

We need to see a solid system and some innovation from Richo as he now does have the cattle.Who cares about the draw - you beat who's in front of you, where ever, when ever you play. Anything else is excuses. Look at how the dogs travelled in the finals.

Finishing 9th or 10th again is a real danger as you are in no mans land - just talk to Richmond. You don't get finals experience and you don't get the really high picks. We have launched our finals assault and can't afford to stall halfway again. Carlisele's clock (that we invested heavily in) is ticking. He's missed a whole year of footy and match conditioning and is looking pretty rusty and underdone. We need to take advantage of him asap.

You bring in older guys like Brown and STevens taking up a valuable spot on your list that could have been spent on young guys, you better reap the rewards straight away.

[To the top]

With all due respect, AFL footy is not the place where you educate young players - and, at AFL level, winning is the name of the game for a raft of reasons including monetary.

So you recruit and develop to build a side - and to maintain performance over the term (read seasons, plural).

ALL teams are doing the same thing, particularly in this regime of "free agency".

We need to compete on at least an equal playing field, otherwise we will never catch up.

The education of young, drafted players is at VFL level, until they knock the door down by performances (again, plural).

That is the hallmark of strong Clubs who position themselves by qualifying for finals season after season.

[To the top]

If you compare to cricket, with cricket there is a higher achievement being Test cricket so, whilst Sheffield Shield successes are recorded they are debased by Test cricketers not being available for Shield cricket and by the fact that providing Test players is the benchmark - not winning a Sheffield Shield per se.

So everything is thru the prism of developing Test players - and success at Test level.

In the AFL, the AFL competition is THE pinnacle.

There is no higher calling.

South Australia are a case in point, having gone down the path of recruiting cricketers from elsewhere such as Klinger, Christian, Botha et al, now having changed course and selecting from juniors performing at District level - and Australian cricket is the better for it, as is South Australian cricket.

[older saint]

i cant believe after 1 intra club game we have such extreme views on he year ahead and player development - or lack there of. It is February FFS and we are still over a month from the start of the season. I would be shocked if players were playing well now. I always laugh at reports like "he starred" or he looked really good", who were they against, perhaps they are talking about a 3-4 year player who was opposed to a rookie.

I know its been a while since footy and there is a lot of hype about the Saints but take a breath, enjoy watching guys run around and notice the physical changes in bodies but don't put too much weight on games in Feb and march.

[8856brother]

Was disappointed with Acres. Hardly noticed him in the first half. One thing that has been consistent with Blake since he arrived at the club is his disposal. It's far too sloppy and was again on Thursday. He's going to excite, as well as frustrate the hell out of us at times if he doesn't clean this side of his game up. Wanted to see improvement in this area and didn't. Hopefully he can sort it out.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

[To the top]

Well, we disagree with Acres because I see him seeking options and then able to use both very good foot and hand skills - and where he has a sweeping, game breaking ability by hand.

He looks to set up the play, not just dispose.

[8856brother]

Well, we disagree with Acres because I see him seeking options and then able to use both very good foot and hand skills - and where he has a sweeping, game breaking ability by hand.

He looks to set up the play, not just dispose.

I'm watching a different player then. Agree to disagree. I'm not talking about any other part of his game. Just his use of the ball. He needs to sharpen it up imo.

[borderbarry]

To The Top said, +With all due respect, AFL footy is not the place where you educate young player-

That is a load of tripe. Where you think our true champions learnt there game, such as Harvs, (started playing at 16, Plugger,(17) Lenny, Roo, and all our current players.

[st.byron]

Am also not 'expecting' finals this year. Optimism is boundless at this time of year and finals would be great but we may have another year of development required before we're there. We have a much much harder draw this year - 3rd hardest according to Champion Data. Am not necessarily looking for finals but for more development of our younger guys.

Regarding some who are being talked about as not being up to it or needing to step up, patience :

Acres - 21 y.o 26 games.
Lonie - 20 y.o 27 games
Gresham - 19 y.o 18 games
Billings 21 y.o 42 games - time for him to take another step but don't expect dominance
Membrey - awesome year last year but still only 30 games under his belt. Wont be surprised if he plateaus a bit.
Paddy - nearly 21. 17 games. Another development year for him. Don't expect him to rip games apart and dominate. More glimpses of elite potential and some solid games would be great.
Sinclair - just turned 22 y.o but still only 27 games.
D-Mac - being touted as the bolter for the year. Awesome if it happens, but still - 20 y.o 16 games.
Minch - is 23 y.o but still only 23 games.
Wright - 23 y.o 30 games.

With all of these guys, most of them 30 games or less, I want to see consistency rather than expecting them to dominate or become elite this year.
I want to especially see increased midfield depth and multiple options develop in most positions apart from key forwards and key defenders.

Sounds like you're getting your excuses ready for Richo Bryon. Every team, including top four teams, can list young players like you've listed. Richo has stacks of solid game, solid tank, solid body players now - Weller, Armo, Dunstan, Savage, Robbo, Gilbo, STevens, Brown, Carlisle, Webster, Bruce, Rooey and on and on. He chose to bring in Stevens, Brown and Carlisle who are all AFL primed. He has admitted he has the talent now and there are no excuses.

I would be more wiling to give Richo another year of outside top 8 if he had been playing more of the kids during his tenure but he hasn't done that as much as he could. This is the guy that took Schneider off the rookie list and played him all year remember. You can't now turn around and bemoan Sincs, Lonie & Wright not having enough games under their belt - can't have your cake and eat it too.

Now he's filled up the list with mature guys like Stevens and Brown and will probably play a backline of Demps, Carlisle, Geary, Joey, Brown & Gilbo. That is not an experimental, developing backline. That is a results orientated backline and he will be judged on wins and losses and top 8 or not playing that.

He's got some real talent on the list and young players come in much more ready for AFL than previously with the burgeoning professionalism of the junior system. We've seen a lot of very inexperienced players carve things up in only a few seasons. Yes there have been injury concerns with Paddy, Billings, Hugh and Blake setting them back a bit. But a lot of them for us will hit that 50 game mark this year (if they get played much) and should be able to handle the pace and physicality of the game letting their talent shine.

We need to see a solid system and some innovation from Richo as he now does have the cattle.Who cares about the draw - you beat who's in front of you, where ever, when ever you play. Anything else is excuses. Look at how the dogs travelled in the finals.

Finishing 9th or 10th again is a real danger as you are in no mans land - just talk to Richmond. You don't get finals experience and you don't get the really high picks. We have launched our finals assault and can't afford to stall halfway again. Carlisele's clock (that we invested heavily in) is ticking. He's missed a whole year of footy and match conditioning and is looking pretty rusty and underdone. We need to take advantage of him asap.

You bring in older guys like Brown and STevens taking up a valuable spot on your list that could have been spent on young guys, you better reap the rewards straight away.

I can see the argument that it's finals time. But I'm not getting carried away with pre-season optimism. And we have a much tougher draw this year.
I think players like Stevens and Brown are depth players. Maybe Koby will prove to be a first 22 choice, but I don't see it that way at the mo.
And I don't see the backline you've mentioned being the main back 6. Brown will surely be a horses for courses option depending on the opposition.
Robbo will surely be a running option off half back now he doesn't have to punch above his weight with Carlisle in the team. Wouldn't also be so sure about Joey and Gilbo being locks for the back 6. D-Mac will be pushing for a spot and Savage is in there.

Yes we have more of a solid core about us, but for true evenness and consistency across the team the younger guys with 30 or so games under their belt need to step it up. That's surely where the big improvement will come from. Some of those fellas may need another development year.

Don't think I'm looking for excuses for the coach. That implies I'm a devotee. I think he's doing a good job but has lots more work to do. My assessment of how he's going will be in the development of the younger players who we're looking to become week in, week out performers, how that contributes to the team performance and how consistent we are. No interstate blowouts and regularly genuinely competitive against all comers is what I want to see.

[To the top]

Simply, all those players commenced playing when St Kilda could not win a game because the List was so deficient.

And, of course, St Kilda's record of Premiership wins is testament to deficient Lists, notwithstanding that he Club has had some of the very best footballers playing for it over the journey.

There may be exceptions to the rule, but if you are relying on the exceptions to the rule you are in deep, deep trouble.

Hence St Kilda's history.

Success (allowing for the exceptions which are rare) is having a good side with good experience allowing those Drafted to adjust to the rigors of AFL footy (and the bodies they contest against) at VFL level, and when they are knocking the doors down with AFL form, introducing them to AFL footy with support around them - something Harvey, Lockett, Hayes and Riewoldt (and I think he missed most of his first season with injury) did not experience hence playing in losing sides and not being introduced as the cream on the cake.

And hence never playing in Premiership sides.

Plus, except for the exceptions, you "burn" them out at a young age so they never play to their full potential - and, again, that is St Kilda.

It is a team sport and you build teams - now with the advantage of "Free agency" which has again changed the dimensions of the competition.

The other matter in regards exceptions, is what years did Lockett, Harvey, Hayes and Riewoldt debut?

And who have we had post Riewoldt, who has now been our premier player for 16 (sixteen) years?

So 4 players over 35 years.

Says it all really!

Then factor into that that Riewoldt was a Number 1 Draft Pick, so we had to finish bottom as in stone, motherless last, to get him.

[wally]

There seems to be undertones that the coach could be under the pump/question...surely not.
We're building a list and the draw does matter.

Older players apposed to giving young ones more go will always be a fine line.

[st.byron]

There seems to be undertones that the coach could be under the pump/question...surely not.
We're building a list and the draw does matter.

Older players apposed to giving young ones more go will always be a fine line.

Wally, I reckon it's just impatience. Re-building takes time and naturally people want success now, especially with the whiff of being on the rise in the nostrils.
With lots of promising players, first round picks and smart trading our list is looking more balanced than I've seen it in a long time. But still a good percentage of those fellas need development time. Anyone who's played less than 30 games surely has lots of improvement left in him, not that he's going to get more talented, but more consistent, skilful and confident. Patience. Patience.

[White Winmar]

Tom Hickey has the skinniest legs I've seen on a bi bloke ever,

Tom Hickey is bi? First AFL player to come out?

[minneapolis]

Tom Hickey has the skinniest legs I've seen on a bi bloke ever,

Tom Hickey is bi? First AFL player to come out?

I think he means bipedal.

[Life Long Saint]

Tom Hickey has the skinniest legs I've seen on a bi bloke ever,

Tom Hickey is bi? First AFL player to come out?

I think he means bipedal.

Not convinced he has a functioning right foot!

[dsav]

Late contribution sorry, but here are the photos I took from the Intraclub...

http://www.davesavell.com/p1025537572

Cheers,
Dave.

[saintsRrising]

Late contribution sorry, but here are the photos I took from the Intraclub...

http://www.davesavell.com/p1025537572

Cheers,
Dave.

Thanks. And for those not there on the day these pics show off the slimmed down Paddy.

[saintbrat]

runner vision and coaches box
http://www.saints.com.au/video/2017-02- ... -intraclub

[Impatient Sainter]

Was disappointed with Acres. Hardly noticed him in the first half. One thing that has been consistent with Blake since he arrived at the club is his disposal. It's far too sloppy and was again on Thursday. He's going to excite, as well as frustrate the hell out of us at times if he doesn't clean this side of his game up. Wanted to see improvement in this area and didn't. Hopefully he can sort it out.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

Its a big ask but I liken him (Acres) to Lenny who took sometime to get his kicking and game right but then took off.