Training

[tony74]

Top report. Well done. Thought Carlisle was good, very vocal. Spent a bit of time up forward.

[samoht]

Carlisle didn't catch spiral3's eye, but he seems to have caught both tony74's eye and ear ("very vocal").
Interesting.
Good reports by the way - it's always hard to take everything in, I guess.

[spiral3]

Carlisle didn't catch spiral3's eye, but he seems to have caught both tony74's eye and ear ("very vocal").
Interesting.
Good reports by the way - it's always hard to take everything in, I guess.

yeah, not saying he was no good, just didn't really jump out at me and I wasn't really watching out for him. It's a bit harder with the new guys as they aren't as recognisable at a distance
thinking back, like Tony says, he was vocal. slung someone too, forgotten who, webster maybe..? be nice to have him throwing his weight around for us
generally lots of voice, interesting for a non footy person to hear all the different directions and see player with the ball follow them. quite a cacophony at times
interesting too to see the transition from training drills to game play, the number of variables goes through the roof
same skills are used but all mixed up together and with the unpredictability of a few dozen other people

[St Loxton]

Great report thanks fellas. So looking forward to watching DMac and Acres do some amazing things this season.

[Jacks Back]

got down to training today and caught the intraclub, along with a couple of others, good to watch.
seemed like around 15min quarters with Leigh Fisher and another ump officiating
as Tony said, the contest was pretty tough, some good hits and endeavour. skills a bit hit and miss
Darragh Joyce got smashed by a couple of talls in the goal square (for the second time in the game I think), was slow to get up, went off and I don't think re-emerged
running laps - Joey and Freeman, both seemed to be moving fine

hard to track all the action with two full teams of saints and no numbers. observations as best I could make them
major ball winners, Jack Steven, Armo, Mav, Billings, D Mac, Sinclair, Gresh, Nick O'Kearney
Jack Steele was great in the first quarter, in everything, good competitor
Lonie was creative & dangerous
Ben Long kicked at least two, seems to have a handy knack of being in the right place at the right time. Good competitive spirit too
Acres covered the ground well and did some alright things
Billings found a lot of the ball but disposal was below his ability at times
Ray Connellan kicked a ripper goal on the run
Paddy kicked a couple and gave a strong aerial contest when he couldn't mark
Bruce marked well and got a couple I think
Membrey did well also, bringing the ball to ground when unable to mark it
DMac, great drive, good all round, stepping up for sure
Sinclair was good in patches
Gresh ditto, seemed to get better later in the game. Laid a couple of very strong tackles in one passage earlier in the game and was a bit sore
Ed Phillips - nice mover and good kick, seems pretty composed
Bailey Rice - I like this kid, he's no Adonis but he is tough, very competitive, composed and has a nice sharp kick on him. One of those backmen you feel like you can trust. He was good in the VFL final that I saw, good today in the contest
Battle - seemed to do well, got him a bit mixed up with Rowan Marshall
Dunstan, did some good things when he got it, delivers the ball nicely (the best?) inside 50
Seb - didn't notice him that much but when I did he did well
Carlisle - didn't catch my eye
Rucks - pretty competitive - Longer was all over Hickey in the first qtr bounces. They swapped around a lot and all had their moments. Holmesy seems to be improving as is Lewis Pierce (big unit)
Was surprised by Longer, did well, back to his 2015 ruckwork form. Took a mark in F50 but missed shot. None of the rucks really stood out around the ground.
Holmesy was competitive at ground level around the ground
Roo - roaming around, not the greatest playmaker, lacks the vision and execution of the good mids
Nick O'Kearney - goes alright, got a bit of footy and generally does something alright with it. takes a while to make his mind up though, generally shorter options

some recruiting staff were in attendance - Chris Toce, Tony Elshaug, Wayne Hughes
Coaches on the boundary and barking instruction from the roof top

Thanks for the report but what about the guy in your avatar - you know, the new el capitano?

[Impatient Sainter]

Thanks Spiral much appreciated!
It seems like our list are coming together nicely and we will have a core of players improving each year from now.

Exciting times ahead to be on the Saints bus...

[spiral3]

Thanks for the report but what about the guy in your avatar - you know, the new el capitano?

well he didn't look quite as stylish as in the avatar but he was definitely there, didn't stand out but wasn't really looking for him, pretty known quantity

[Long Term Injury]

Fantastic report, many thanks and much appreciated!

[Linton Lodger]

I am hopping on the JB bandwagon early. All Aboard !

I'm on Goro, I reckon at the end of the coming season, we'll all be saying "what's a Bont?"

[Linton Lodger]

If that's the case...

So much for an incident free pre season. He has been training fully, so for him to pulled out of training there has been an issue, and the club would prefer not to give it any media legs....

If it is 'awareness' in his hammies, I think he has some serious mental demons to overcome, and that will provide as much of an issue as the physical problems he has with his injuries. I watched him at Sandy last year, firstly he was not willing to explode with the footy, and looked to dish it off as soon as he got possesion, secondly he always looked to handball and preferred not to kick. This suggests that he has lost faith in his body and is thinking about getting re-injured.

Now if your fit to play, a game of any sorts, you need to be able to go 100% or you just don't play until you can... He was clearly not going at full speed in any contest, and was castigated for it a few times, and really, he barely touched the footy and struggled with the pace of the game and couldn't keep up.

This from a bloke who was an elite junior, with breakaway speed, and preferred to take the game on and kick, rather than give it off... Very similar to Jack Steven. If anything, he lacked composure, due to the speed in which he played.

His mental demons will be similar to a golfer who is thinking about outcome, rather than process... Ie/ worrying about where the ball's going, rather than concentrating on a tight swing. It happen's regularly when players lose confidence, Steve Finn lost his bowling action a few years ago and was sent home from the ashes tour, Trott lost his nerve and did the same. When a footballer loses confidence in his body, it can really effect his performance... Because a split second hesitation is the difference between winning a contest and not making a contest... And watching him last year, he was second guessing himself.

I seriously hope the boy makes it, he has some real tools... But he must let go of his baggage and just go for it... If his body fails again, so be it.. Then rehab and try again... But in elite sport, you cannot MANAGE performance, because the human element of confidence comes into play. Either he is fit (no excuses) or not fit (not playing)
There should be nothing in between IMO otherwise he will doubt himself and give himself excuses.

If he is tentative because of mental demons, which is understandable in his situation, then one good game should fix it.

[kosifantutti]

The practice match on Thursday will be live streamed according to a poster on bigfooty. No idea of the platform.

[jays]

thanks for the updates guys

[Bluthy]

Great reports. Not to be Mr Pour Cold Water on Things yet again but one thing you've got to realise is that is basically 1's playing 2's all over the field in these games. Every club fans will be raving about players tearing it up in praccie games but by their nature they are far easier than AFL games due. Then the season starts all that untested blue sky can collapse once they play oppo best 22 particularly teams finishing above you last year.

JB is probably able to run around doing what he wants now but will get a lot of attention in real games so that will be his real test of development. Its why its also important to have a good even spread of talent so they can't just focus on a few of our stars.

[Bluthy]

Top report. Well done. Thought Carlisle was good, very vocal. Spent a bit of time up forward.

I find this really interesting. I still wonder if they have plans to use Jake up forward sometimes. He gives us the extreme height that Paddy and Membrey don't have. It could be a great tool up Richo's sleeve to throw out oppo's backline plans and drag out their biggest back. And Jake has shown what an impact player he can be up forward - he's proven to be lethal in fact. Two goals down with 15 to play - chuck Jake forward.

If Brown and Dempster both play with support from Robbo and Gilbo, you could cover him down back for periods. Again great versatility for Richo to play with. Against that is that Jake doesn't seem to enjoy playing forward from what he's said but if its short bursts then could be ok. Plus he might have to do some rucking. In which case that is where playing both Dempster and Brown comes in otherwise we could be in trouble at the back. It's going to be like a rubricks cube getting a best functioning 22 this year.

[prwilkinson]

Thanks for the write up! Were the players that'd potentially be in the 'best 22' spread between both teams?

[White Winmar]

Top report. Well done. Thought Carlisle was good, very vocal. Spent a bit of time up forward.

I find this really interesting. I still wonder if they have plans to use Jake up forward sometimes. He gives us the extreme height that Paddy and Membrey don't have. It could be a great tool up Richo's sleeve to throw out oppo's backline plans and drag out their biggest back. And Jake has shown what an impact player he can be up forward - he's proven to be lethal in fact. Two goals down with 15 to play - chuck Jake forward.

If Brown and Dempster both play with support from Robbo and Gilbo, you could cover him down back for periods. Again great versatility for Richo to play with. Against that is that Jake doesn't seem to enjoy playing forward from what he's said but if its short bursts then could be ok. Plus he might have to do some rucking. In which case that is where playing both Dempster and Brown comes in otherwise we could be in trouble at the back. It's going to be like a rubricks cube getting a best functioning 22 this year.

I'm sure Carlisle will be used as a forward at times this year. He has kicked 8 in a game and I remember he bagged 4 against us in 2015. It ties in with Richo's requirement for versatility. It gives us a dynamic set of options, which can catch the opposition out. I think Jake's best is elite. I'm excited by what he potentially brings to the team.

[To the top]

With all due respect, in 2015, in the absence of Fisher with injury (and Gilbert similarly) EVERYONE was throwing talls forward against us - and they were ALL kicking goals!

We trust that that particular problem has been addressed with Carlisle and Brown - and Goddard in the wings.

In fact we will now have a spread of running 194cm defenders (Roberton and Gilbert) to support the big bodies of Carlisle and Brown.

What a change!!

[Bluthy]

Top report. Well done. Thought Carlisle was good, very vocal. Spent a bit of time up forward.

I find this really interesting. I still wonder if they have plans to use Jake up forward sometimes. He gives us the extreme height that Paddy and Membrey don't have. It could be a great tool up Richo's sleeve to throw out oppo's backline plans and drag out their biggest back. And Jake has shown what an impact player he can be up forward - he's proven to be lethal in fact. Two goals down with 15 to play - chuck Jake forward.

If Brown and Dempster both play with support from Robbo and Gilbo, you could cover him down back for periods. Again great versatility for Richo to play with. Against that is that Jake doesn't seem to enjoy playing forward from what he's said but if its short bursts then could be ok. Plus he might have to do some rucking. In which case that is where playing both Dempster and Brown comes in otherwise we could be in trouble at the back. It's going to be like a rubricks cube getting a best functioning 22 this year.

I'm sure Carlisle will be used as a forward at times this year. He has kicked 8 in a game and I remember he bagged 4 against us in 2015. It ties in with Richo's requirement for versatility. It gives us a dynamic set of options, which can catch the opposition out. I think Jake's best is elite. I'm excited by what he potentially brings to the team.

And then if Carlisle is relief rucking (still waiting to see if that will be the case) and perhaps used forward a bit (as necessary?) then playing both Demps and Brown does make sense as you do need coverage at the back when Carlisle is moved out. Gilbert and Robbo got a bit towelled up last year trying to do a key defender role.

However if you feel you need Carlisle at the back all game like playing GWS with their huge talls then you've still got Rooey to be able to swing forward if the forward line is struggling a bit.

I wouldn't mind this year Richo doing some experimenting this year to see what works and what doesn't. Chances we can go from outside the 8 to a flag are pretty slim - dogs had a year of finals before their amazing ride to a flag. It might be a case of seeing what Carlisle can do, wants to do, will do if pushed on the forward line.

Do you keep Rooey out of the forward line all together if Paddy, Bruce and Members are all playing? How many of those big can you have forward before being too top heavy? Can Rooey help out down back more with his height and marking if Carlilse goes forward/rucks? Lots of question to be asked but Richo does have some real versatility up his sleeve this year - why not use it and try out some different combo's and be unpredictable.

[wally]

Thanks again for the reports.
One question I'm curious where Roo plays in these interclub games/hitouts ,and if it's floating/wing
who is the apponent and do they just try to negate most of the time or back themselves to create?

[Moods]

Thanks again for the reports.
One question I'm curious where Roo plays in these interclub games/hitouts ,and if it's floating/wing
who is the apponent and do they just try to negate most of the time or back themselves to create?

I would imagine that after 300+ games Rooey just rubs around in the intraclub games for match fitness. I'm sure he will have a similar role to last year, but he seems almost more effective floating fwd on the burst. No-one can go with him and he's less likely that way to have 2-3 defenders hanging off of him. One on one he's almost unstoppable. If we can manipulate that as much as possible then Roo will be dominant again. For mine he was our best player last year - easily. Don't care what our B&F results say.

[spiral3]

Wally - I didn't pay particular attention to starting positions/opponents sorry - presume Roo was wing

Thanks for the write up! Were the players that'd potentially be in the 'best 22' spread between both teams?

No worries, feels like I missed as much as I observed!
More 1st 22 on the blue team - going by FB pics. I think the scores ended up fairly even, blues got smashed in the first term (driven by Longer and Steele) but came back
Paddy must have been red team. He, Lonie and Long were among the goals if I recall rightly...?
https://www.facebook.com/stkfc/photos/? ... 5138508183

Darragh getting smashed - nice pic of the Saints FB page.
already carrying something - bandage on hip?

[Con Gorozidis]

Re Carlisle:
A bit off topic but I was bored one night last week and watched the replay v the Suns where they thrashed us in Rd 15.

I can see why Tommy Lee was delisted. He got destroyed by big Peter Wright - he wont be alone on that because Wright looks like he might destroy a lot of defenders in coming years.

But Lee was too small and kept falling over. He isnt big enough to play on a big guy like Wright and isnt agile enough to be a running defender like White, Webster, Gilbert, Roberton.

Carlisle would have been much better on big two metre Peter. I think in that game we also had Delaney who was getting touched up by Lynch at the same time. Was a bit of a train wreck down back.

I use that game as an example but the reality is we are going to have to deal regularly with meat-axes like Lynch, Wright, Cameron, Schache, Patton, Boyd etc for the next decade.

[spert]

Re Carlisle:
A bit off topic but I was bored one night last week and watched the replay v the Suns where they thrashed us in Rd 15.

I can see why Tommy Lee was delisted. He got destroyed by big Peter Wright - he wont be alone on that because Wright looks like he might destroy a lot of defenders in coming years.

But Lee was too small and kept falling over. He isnt big enough to play on a big guy like Wright and isnt agile enough to be a running defender like White, Webster, Gilbert, Roberton.

Carlisle would have been much better on big two metre Peter. I think in that game we also had Delaney who was getting touched up by Lynch at the same time. Was a bit of a train wreck down back.

I use that game as an example but the reality is we are going to have to deal regularly with meat-axes like Lynch, Wright, Cameron, Schache, Patton, Boyd etc for the next decade.

All I saw in that loss to the Suns, was our midfield getting smashed, same as the WCE loss. That's the area that needs fixing over all else.

[saynta]

Re Carlisle:
A bit off topic but I was bored one night last week and watched the replay v the Suns where they thrashed us in Rd 15.

I can see why Tommy Lee was delisted. He got destroyed by big Peter Wright - he wont be alone on that because Wright looks like he might destroy a lot of defenders in coming years.

But Lee was too small and kept falling over. He isnt big enough to play on a big guy like Wright and isnt agile enough to be a running defender like White, Webster, Gilbert, Roberton.

Carlisle would have been much better on big two metre Peter. I think in that game we also had Delaney who was getting touched up by Lynch at the same time. Was a bit of a train wreck down back.

I use that game as an example but the reality is we are going to have to deal regularly with meat-axes like Lynch, Wright, Cameron, Schache, Patton, Boyd etc for the next decade.

Two metre peter was touted as a number one draft pick for a long long time.

Lee was a good ordinary VFL player st best.

We wasted more than a couple of years on him.

He was never going to be good enough.

[Harvey To Hayes]

Re Carlisle:
A bit off topic but I was bored one night last week and watched the replay v the Suns where they thrashed us in Rd 15.

I can see why Tommy Lee was delisted. He got destroyed by big Peter Wright - he wont be alone on that because Wright looks like he might destroy a lot of defenders in coming years.

But Lee was too small and kept falling over. He isnt big enough to play on a big guy like Wright and isnt agile enough to be a running defender like White, Webster, Gilbert, Roberton.

Carlisle would have been much better on big two metre Peter. I think in that game we also had Delaney who was getting touched up by Lynch at the same time. Was a bit of a train wreck down back.

I use that game as an example but the reality is we are going to have to deal regularly with meat-axes like Lynch, Wright, Cameron, Schache, Patton, Boyd etc for the next decade.

All I saw in that loss to the Suns, was our midfield getting smashed, same as the WCE loss. That's the area that needs fixing over all else.

The main thing I remember was our abysmal conversion, never seen anything like it. We kicked 8.20 but missed so many sitters...