Best 22

[st.byron]

I reckon there's a bit of underrating Dempster going on. Still a quality player. One of the best intercept marks in the game. And he wont have to play "tall" because we now have Carlisle and Brown. Got to be a lock for the starting defense along with Geary and Robbo.

[dragit]

I reckon there's a bit of underrating Dempster going on. Still a quality player. One of the best intercept marks in the game. And he wont have to play "tall" because we now have Carlisle and Brown. Got to be a lock for the starting defense along with Geary and Robbo.

This creates it's own problems though as it gets stodgy pretty quickly.

Geary Brown Dempster
Roberton Carlisle

This would have to be the worst kicking backline in the AFL, Montagna/Savage would help the situation but then lack the defensive side and it's a terribly unbalanced set-up with 4-5 stoppers and only 1-2 guys that want to kick the ball.

I think only one of Dempster / Brown play most weeks with Carlisle a lock.

Geary our best option for smalls… maybe Roberton the third tall offering some run,

We're still lacking a couple of quality players that can defend well and also run & kick consistently… hopefully we can find some players to do this > McKenzie? Long?

[st.byron]

I reckon there's a bit of underrating Dempster going on. Still a quality player. One of the best intercept marks in the game. And he wont have to play "tall" because we now have Carlisle and Brown. Got to be a lock for the starting defense along with Geary and Robbo.

This creates it's own problems though as it gets stodgy pretty quickly.

Geary Brown Dempster
Roberton Carlisle

This would have to be the worst kicking backline in the AFL, Montagna/Savage would help the situation but then lack the defensive side and it's a terribly unbalanced set-up with 4-5 stoppers and only 1-2 guys that want to kick the ball.

I think only one of Dempster / Brown play most weeks with Carlisle a lock.

Geary our best option for smalls… maybe Roberton the third tall offering some run,

We're still lacking a couple of quality players that can defend well and also run & kick consistently… hopefully we can find some players to do this > McKenzie? Long?

Agree about it being stodgy. I reckon that N.Brown may only be deployed on a needs basis rather than being a regular.

Something like Carlisle, Roberton, Geary and Dempster as defensive locks. Joey to continue his quarterback role. Savage is thereabouts and there are the up and comers like White, D-Mac, Webster to add run, carry and quality delivery. Richo was a big fan of Webster before he was impacted by injury.
Take Demps out, which it seems is inevitable within the next couple of years and one of the other young fellas needs to step up to take his place. Same with Joey. Then there's HG. Where does he fit in? Will he make it?

Also interesting to read Roberton on the club website saying, "This has been my first full pre-season so far, so I’ve done everything this summer which has been good,” Roberton told saints.com.au on Monday morning.
“The last couple of years I’ve been in and out [of the main group], stuck out on the back oval [with the rehab group].
“But so far this pre-season I’ve managed to do every main session, which is good to be around the boys and feed off that energy at this time of year because normally it’s just running laps and stuff like that.”

Let's hope it bears fruit for him when the footy starts.

[BigMart]

Would we prefer running defenders playing on the last line?

Opposed to Eddie Betts, Lance Franklin, Josh Kennedy, Jamie Elliot, Michael Walters, Chad Winguard, Joe Daniher, Jack Gunston, Cyril Rioli, Jarred Waite, Jesse Hogane, Jeff Gartlett, Jack Riewoldt, Tom Lynch, Toby Greene and the list goes on...

Those players cannot be opposed to by attacking, or running backs and need defenders first and creative ability second opposed to them....

Can you imagine Leigh Montagna or inexperience D.Mac opposed to Chad Winguard or Hugh Goddard or Dylan Roberton opposed to Josh Kennedy... Disaster. We have had a small backline out of necessity not as a preference.

Every Good Team has at least 1 big stopper, and one defensive small back in the backline
Go through the teams.... Grundy, Hartigan, Dawson, Frawley, Fletch-Roberts, Davis, Lonergan and so on... Then there are the small defenders... They are like gold, as dominant small forwards are a huge problem at the minute... We have probably the second best in the AFL (behind Nick Smith)

A stodgy full backline that stops guns would be pretty commonplace in most teams.

Said it before, you don't look for drive from the last line anyway, you look to defend, move the ball around, until the is an opportunity to attack off HALF BACK.

Guys like Roberton, Montagna, Savage, DMac, Gilbert will give run from the back half, and kicking drive.

I remember our backline in 2009/2010

Jason Blake, Zac Dawson, Steven Baker - pretty stodgy but very capable - none were good kicks, but had a 90% efficiency by using short kicking to more dynamic players and good users such as Gilbert, Gram, Fisher, Goddard

[To the top]

And the summary of 2009/10?

"Not good enough"

Learn the lessons

[BigMart]

Perhaps undersized of running players on Hawkins, Cloke, Leon Davis or Steveie J?

Oh, that's right... They were beaten and Zac Dawson and Steve Baker were amongst the best players in the 9/10 GFs

The midfielder were pretty even... But we lacked depth... And we were poor up forward, the smalls never fired a shot and we were Roo reliant and Kosi was really just tall target to compete.

I don't think our defence was at all a problem

In fact
Gram, Baker, Dawson, Fisher were in our best 6 in 09
Gwilt, Dawson, Fisher, Blake in 2010

[Stian]

And the summary of 2009/10?

"Not good enough"

Learn the lessons

Actually, it wasn't the backline that was "Not good enough" in 2009/10. You should remember that we defended well but couldn't kick a winning score.

[longtimesaint]

And the summary of 2009/10?

"Not good enough"

Learn the lessons

Actually, it wasn't the backline that was "Not good enough" in 2009/10. You should remember that we defended well but couldn't kick a winning score.

The reason we could not kick a winning game score was due to Lyon' s very defensive mindset.
If we had been coached by someone with a more attacking game plan I think we would have won one or maybe both of those flags.

[Bluthy]

And the summary of 2009/10?

"Not good enough"

Learn the lessons

I agree. Comparing our backline to Pies, Cats and Hawks, they were much more able to keep possession footy and work the ball out of defence, much more of an explosive penetrating backline and much more even kicks across the board. Key defenders like Scarlett and Harley were pretty good using the footy and could work the ball out to open up play. Ours couldn't.

Just as your forward line should be a great defensive unit with pressing and pressure from all players, your defence should be a great attacking weapon across the board. Hence why for Lyon he struggled to get his teams to launch the sort of penetrating, coast to coast attacks that get you some cheaper goals. You can't rely on a just a couple of good kicking halfbacks to do it - thats too easy to shut down.

One of both GT's and Lyons problems I think was they both compartmentalised the teams too heavily. Inside ball - Lenny and Ball. Outside - Dal Santo, Joey. Spoiling backs- Hudghton, Dawson, Blake. Good kicking half backs - Gram, Goddard. Goals Roo, Gerhig, Milne. The problem with that is its too easy to pick apart over the course of a season, too predictable. GT was a bit of simplistic coach. Lyon was just a piss poor developer He didn't try and round out players abilities but squeeze them for all the juice they had in one specialised area. I like the way Richo is trying to round out players and we are recruiting versatile, well rounded players from the get go. Its why Lonie and Sinclair need to develop their midfield game because we have Steele, Stevens, Acres, Gresham who can all play forward and mid.

In the grannie Cats could afford to put one of their best mids in Bartel on Lenny because if he was neutralised we didn't have a lot of other inside ball winners but they had more even spread. Likewise teams worked out if you shut down Dal santo's supply he struggled to get his own pill and Saints lost their best ball user without many others who knew how to hit targets in tight spaces.

Under Lyon we turn the ball over too much (as did Freo). In grand finals where finding any open man is incredibly difficult, this inability to keep the ball compared to our oppo and to let the ball do a lot of the work by pinging it around quickly and accurately, proved fatal. Lenny killed himself to win it again and again but if it keeps getting turned over there is only so much he could do.

I like the idea of Goddard and CArlisle as our two key backs as both have pretty good kicking for big units. That is a great starting spot. I was suprised at how well Goddard can drill it - he's a lefty I think and is powerful to really kick through it with some accuracy to boot. Chuck guys like White, Rice, Mckenzie, Long in there and that is looking sweet to me in terms of use of the footy across our whole backline. We could even carry a Geary dodgy kick with them!

So maybe we are in that slightly ugly transition phase where we are restructuring our backline over a few years. I think we are too clunky at the moment, needing better ball users but they are there, just need to come through.

[st.byron]

With respect to all the hindsight about backlines regarding 2009. If Schneider, Milney and McQualter had done their jobs as small forwards in the second quarter, we would have been five goals up at half time. We blew it right there. Even in the last Schneids had a blatant holding the man inside 50 not paid and when previous gold plated oppos haven't been taken, the cost is so much greater. We lost the game in the forward half.

[To the top]

the 2009/2010 period is consigned to history, that history being that whilst our upper echelon was competition leading the support troops were not at the required level.

We were exposed and beaten.

The lesson is an even spread, not reliance.

This lesson is accentuated by the way football is played now (and especially in Finals) where it is all about man on man accountability, disruption, opportunity and usage.

There is no "pretty" football.

Every player needs to have the ability to punish the opposition when disruption sees the ball in their hands.

Whilst mistakes will happen, it will be the side that disrupts and punishes most that will win.

You have to have an extra dimension including flexibility in deployment/s.

You can not afford a player who only does this or that.

They just are not dangerous enough.

No work needs to be done to negate their influence.

[BigMart]

2009
We missed shots... It was as simple as that
2010
Collingwood were better

Who by the way, had a defence of Maxwell, N.Brown, B.Johnson... None of those exactly Stawell Gift winners.. And none Darren Jarman by foot.

Bluntly, your continued argument that more attacking flair is need from the back half...

Who would you oppose to
Lance Franklin

[BigMart]

And

Harley was a battler at best. He was average with the ball.

[Bluthy]

2009
We missed shots... It was as simple as that
2010
Collingwood were better

Who by the way, had a defence of Maxwell, N.Brown, B.Johnson... None of those exactly Stawell Gift winners.. And none Darren Jarman by foot.

Bluntly, your continued argument that more attacking flair is need from the back half...

Who would you oppose to
Lance Franklin

Bluntly? Is this me thou is addressing? Or are you just being blunt? What is happening!!!!!

I'm not proposing we fill the back half with mid-size attacking players. Goddard will have to prove his AFL defensive level abilities of course and show he isn't too slow and clunky in a key back role.

But what do you want ideally - the big backman being strong defensively (with a good mix of strength and versatility) but who can also use the ball well. Our previous key backs only ticked that first box. On paper Goddard and Carlisle tick both those boxes. So that' the dream to me. Whether it eventuates is another question. Maybe Coughlan can come on with good height and stack on some weight to play a key role. Maybe we recruit/draft another young key back.

I'm talking what I think should be our ideal goal as I thought it was a weakness in our last flag tilt as oppo teams had an edge over us in regard to a smarter, better ball using backline. But who knows if we can get there. I don't agree with "our backs were good enough - we weren't attacking enough" That's simplistic. Attack should come from all over the field, just as defense should. If you aren't scoring enough, look at your backs to see if you are getting enough rebound. If you are being scored against easily, see if your forwards are shutting down the backmens run and gun. That is the modern footy. Its why WRight came into the team as a forward last year basically just to harrass the oppo half backs who were killing us.

[saint64]

Interesting article on SEN

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/01/15/ ... s-best-22/

[Jacks Back]

Interesting article on SEN

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/01/15/ ... s-best-22/

No 8cres in the sen team but Steele steels a spot.

[Con Gorozidis]

Assuming GWS are the team to beat and they have a fwd line with Cameron, Lobb and Patton in it. N Brown will be a required player.
Maybe against some sides with a more agile fw line - he will be less important. But nearly every side has at least two large units in their fwd line.
We will have McCartin, Bruce and then Membrey as a medium.

[White Winmar]

Interesting article on SEN

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/01/15/ ... s-best-22/

No 8cres in the sen team but Steele steels a spot.

A terrible omission. It shows how little research these people do. Acres will be crucial to the success of our midfield. He may even end up surpassing Jack Steven over the next couple of years. How anyone who claims to be a sports journalist could make a howler like that is beyond me. I hope it is a mistake.

[saintbrat]

Fox reporter has Blake in 22
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/best-22 ... b272cbd0d6

[st.byron]

Fox reporter has Blake in 22
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/best-22 ... b272cbd0d6

Looks about right. Am very interested by the names left out :

Jack Sinclair, Daniel McKenzie, Hugh Goddard, Jimmy Webster, Brandon White, Nathan Wright, Darren Minchington,

These guys in particular will be keen to push for a spot. Competition for a place looks healthy.

And looking ahead to the end of the year when we have to de-list three players again, there don't seem to be any stand-out candidates. Longer perhaps is one as he'll be out of contract. List looks healthy.