Best 22

[longtimesaint]

Do I get a prize for guessi g who our 2017 whipping boy is, mightysainters?

We always seem to need one unfortunately.
Gilbert will keep his place until someone is knocking down the door at Sandy

[Trev from the Bush]

Do I get a prize for guessi g who our 2017 whipping boy is, mightysainters?

We always seem to need one unfortunately.
Gilbert will keep his place until someone is knocking down the door at Sandy

Yes, despite his 179 senior games - and playing a big part in our overall improvement last season - our selection panel fail to listen to those more qualified on this forum by playing him!

[Con Gorozidis]

Do I get a prize for guessi g who our 2017 whipping boy is, mightysainters?

We always seem to need one unfortunately.
Gilbert will keep his place until someone is knocking down the door at Sandy

Longer and Koby Stevens have good WB potential (ok ok whip me)

[To the top]

194 cm, 92 kg player who played every game in 2016, often as a key position defender due to the absence of alternatives including because of injury to Fisher from mid season

With Carlisle and Brown will play as a flank defender/utility bringing his physique and dash which are a necessary requirement

Will continue to be a first 22 selection.

As with all players he will miss with his disposal from time to time but his ability to carry the ball and kick long, flat and direct are the positives a very strong St Kilda side will continue to evolve around.

There are others we should be assessing before Gilbert.

[dragit]

194 cm, 92 kg player who played every game in 2016, often as a key position defender due to the absence of alternatives including because of injury to Fisher from mid season

With Carlisle and Brown will play as a flank defender/utility bringing his physique and dash which are a necessary requirement

Will continue to be a first 22 selection.

As with all players he will miss with his disposal from time to time but his ability to carry the ball and kick long, flat and direct are the positives a very strong St Kilda side will continue to evolve around.

There are others we should be assessing before Gilbert.

I reckon if you put Brandon white with one game to his name in the side ahead of a guy who just finished 2nd in the B&F & is top ten every year then your credibility is pretty precarious.

[To the top]

It remains my view that Geary is a liability.

The reasons are just too numerous to mention.

He is a relic of a period in time when we were easily the worst side in the competition - and one of the significant reasons we were where we were at.

He might win time trials and he may "negate" dangerous small forwards until you realize that he is nowhere near them and it was only because he could not be exploited that they did not cut us apart.

A good Club man - but that is where it is at.

The fact that White, in his one game and a shoot out against a bottom and demoralised Club playing Interstate because we had no defensive structure or presence to negate their mids rotating forward, offers more than Geary is the comment.

Yes, White, Fisher, Gilbert, Roberton and Montagna did their jobs in that shoot out - and that leaves out who?

The Brisbane mid sized mids going forward on rotations killed us - and that was Geary.

Look at who kicked their 20 goals, running unchecked.

So dream on - but with Geary a Premiership will remain a dream.

We have to move on - only retaining the class players from our years of challenging - being Riewoldt, Montagna and Gilbert as the experience this side is built around.

[longtimesaint]

It remains my view that Geary is a liability.

The reasons are just too numerous to mention.

He is a relic of a period in time when we were easily the worst side in the competition - and one of the significant reasons we were where we were at.

He might win time trials and he may "negate" dangerous small forwards until you realize that he is nowhere near them and it was only because he could not be exploited that they did not cut us apart.

A good Club man - but that is where it is at.

The fact that White, in his one game and a shoot out against a bottom and demoralised Club playing Interstate because we had no defensive structure or presence to negate their mids rotating forward, offers more than Geary is the comment.

Yes, White, Fisher, Gilbert, Roberton and Montagna did their jobs in that shoot out - and that leaves out who?

The Brisbane mid sized mids going forward on rotations killed us - and that was Geary.

Look at who kicked their 20 goals, running unchecked.

So dream on - but with Geary a Premiership will remain a dream.

We have to move on - only retaining the class players from our years of challenging - being Riewoldt, Montagna and Gilbert as the experience this side is built around.

Geary was outstanding in 2016 and our best small defender by a long way.
He will be a certainty for our best 22 and one of the first picked!
He is also well in the running to be captain.

[BigMart]

I would say Geary would be in the first 6 picked. He a lock unless injured for three years.

So he used to it!

[lintonstreet]

I would say Geary would be in the first 6 picked. He a lock unless injured for three years.

So he used to it!

Jimmy Webster will take Geary's spot.

[Wayne42]

I would say Geary would be in the first 6 picked. He a lock unless injured for three years.

So he used to it!

Jimmy Webster will take Geary's spot.

When Geary retires , or when Richo is sacked.

[bigcarl]

It remains my view that Geary is a liability etc etc.

Every chance he'll be captain this season. Every chance.

Yes we have more naturally talented players, it's true. But we have few, if any, that are tougher and that's not to be underestimated as an attribute.

[To the top]

In that Brisbane match, the Brisbane goal kickers were Walker (3), Mathieson, Dawson, Rockliff (2 each), Hanley, Zorko, Bell, Keays, Merrett and Rich (1 each).

Roberton had 23 disposals, Montagna had 22 disposals, McKenzie 18 disposals, Dempster 13 disposals, Savage 13 disposals, Fisher 17 disposals, White 13 disposals, Gilbert 20 disposals and Geary 11 disposals.

To me, in that match, Brisbane kicked goals at will courtesy of their mid-fielders rotating forward and creating score board pressure.

Now I do not know the Brisbane players that well (if at all!) but what we (yes, a collective) did observe was "who is responsible?", where those goal scorers went to after scoring and who their designated opponent was (the Brisbane players significantly running free on goal).

Was it confusion because of the rotations thru the mid field?

Was it the mid-field ignoring defensive responsibilities?

Because we had a major problem against a side which had won very few games thru the season and was playing on our back yard.

We were not at a standard across the park that would see us maintain/improve in 2017 - so where was remedy?

And we came to our conclusions.

The ultimate win and the brilliance of the Captain overshadowed all else for the majority that day, no question.

The margin was Riewoldt scoring as he did.

And thererin lay the problem, to us at least as we search for St Kilda to replicate the teams of our (collective) history's and position to and win premierships, noting 1966 as the only Premiership St Kilda has achieved including because of the dis-connect in abilities thru the Lyon years when our under belly was exposed as it was on the biggest stage.

We do not want that replicated.

[longtimesaint]

In that Brisbane match, the Brisbane goal kickers were Walker (3), Mathieson, Dawson, Rockliff (2 each), Hanley, Zorko, Bell, Keays, Merrett and Rich (1 each).

Roberton had 23 disposals, Montagna had 22 disposals, McKenzie 18 disposals, Dempster 13 disposals, Savage 13 disposals, Fisher 17 disposals, White 13 disposals, Gilbert 20 disposals and Geary 11 disposals.

To me, in that match, Brisbane kicked goals at will courtesy of their mid-fielders rotating forward and creating score board pressure.

Now I do not know the Brisbane players that well (if at all!) but what we (yes, a collective) did observe was "who is responsible?", where those goal scorers went to after scoring and who their designated opponent was (the Brisbane players significantly running free on goal).

Was it confusion because of the rotations thru the mid field?

Was it the mid-field ignoring defensive responsibilities?

Because we had a major problem against a side which had won very few games thru the season and was playing on our back yard.

We were not at a standard across the park that would see us maintain/improve in 2017 - so where was remedy?

And we came to our conclusions.

The ultimate win and the brilliance of the Captain overshadowed all else for the majority that day, no question.

The margin was Riewoldt scoring as he did.

And thererin lay the problem, to us at least as we search for St Kilda to replicate the teams of our (collective) history's and position to and win premierships, noting 1966 as the only Premiership St Kilda has achieved including because of the dis-connect in abilities thru the Lyon years when our under belly was exposed as it was on the biggest stage.

We do not want that replicated.

I don't think this last match of the season was a good representation of our season or of individual players.
Both teams knew there was nothing riding on the match and it was fairly lackluster.
Watch the reply of our best wins for the season -Geelong, bulldogs Carlton , Collingwood and Melbourne (twice)
Players need the incentive to perform at their best.
Anything can happen over a season depending on form or injury but Geary and Gilbert will be in our starting 22 for round 1.

[Bluthy]

Anything can happen over a season depending on form or injury but Geary and Gilbert will be in our starting 22 for round 1.

I agrizzle. But early results could help shape the demographic of the team and our goals next year. If you are playing all of Dempster, Brown, Geary, Gilbert and Joey then you are going for wins over blooding the players relevant to our future backline. If those wins don't come - lets say we go 2 and 4 which is possible - then perhaps that makes them set a different course. Maybe they look at playing more of White, Rice, McKenzie, Goddard (injury permitting), Long, Coughlan to be preparing better for the future but also because they are more dynamic and better users of the footy.

Also some of our vets are going to have pretty old and well used hammies and tendons. Wouldn't surprise if time catches up with them playing on the hard and fast Etihad deck. We were pretty lucky with injuries last year - but often that doesn't repeat. So we may really get a good use of the depth of our squad.

[longtimesaint]

Anything can happen over a season depending on form or injury but Geary and Gilbert will be in our starting 22 for round 1.

I agrizzle. But early results could help shape the demographic of the team and our goals next year. If you are playing all of Dempster, Brown, Geary, Gilbert and Joey then you are going for wins over blooding the players relevant to our future backline. If those wins don't come - lets say we go 2 and 4 which is possible - then perhaps that makes them set a different course. Maybe they look at playing more of White, Rice, McKenzie, Goddard (injury permitting), Long, Coughlan to be preparing better for the future but also because they are more dynamic and better users of the footy.

Also some of our vets are going to have pretty old and well used hammies and tendons. Wouldn't surprise if time catches up with them playing on the hard and fast Etihad deck. We were pretty lucky with injuries last year - but often that doesn't repeat. So we may really get a good use of the depth of our squad.

I think the change over will happen naturally as the older players will probably be more likely to have soft tissue injuries.
Also if any of the older players form drops off then the likes of McKenzie, White or Sinclair will get the opportunity.
As Membery showed this last season if you perform well enough then you will keep your place.

[BigMart]

For any of them to get a game, they need to be as good as those the replace

Rice is fat
White is raw
Goddard is unproven, slow, injured
DMac looks good

Have they done as much or are they as good as Dempster & Montagna (AAs) Brown (premiership player) and proven performers like Geary, Robertson, Savage

Btw
Geary (against my view) will be captain, therefore hard to see him out of the team
He has finished top 5 in the b&f a few times including second last season

Anyone who sees him not in the 22 would be laughed out of town by anyone involved with the club

[longtimesaint]

Hopefully they can address Rice being fat over pre-season.
The players to most likely get chances are the ones that have proved they can play at the highest level.
These include McKenzie, Sinclair, Webster, Lonnie, Wright, Minchington.

[desertsaint]

I agrizzle.

such a lost opportunity that word. it would be perfect to describe grudging or upsetting agreeance.

[White Winmar]

Hopefully they can address Rice being fat over pre-season.
The players to most likely get chances are the ones that have proved they can play at the highest level.
These include McKenzie, Sinclair, Webster, Lonnie, Wright, Minchington.

There's no fat in white rice, I'm told.

[White Winmar]

Hopefully they can address Rice being fat over pre-season.
The players to most likely get chances are the ones that have proved they can play at the highest level.
These include McKenzie, Sinclair, Webster, Lonnie, Wright, Minchington.

There's no fat in white rice, I'm told.

[asiu]

you're a good egg FireGoat

goodonya

[dragit]

Confucius say

“Give a bowl of rice to a man and you will feed him for a day.

Teach him how to grow his own rice and he will probary become fat”

[To the top]

I agree with Bluthy (and the Coach's reported comment re our transition from defence) that the inclusion of Brown, Dempster and Geary in our defence is a problem.

Brown I can wear because he is a designated last line, key position negate player - and if he is getting spoils in he is creating contested ball we would look to rebound with pace, carry and precision - and we are not being out-marked where you can not be out-marked.

Gilbert and Roberton, both 194cm, provide rebound.

Carlisle, we will have to see what he brings and how he is used - but he brings a big body to our defence.

So there is 4 - Brown, Carlisle, Gilbert and Roberton.

Montagna went back as the extra number in 2016 to give run and precision, did well despite a deficiency in negating over-head and should continue in that role.

So there is 5.

Given that we have 6 + 1 (Montagna) behind the ball, who are the other 2?

And who and what will they be lining up on?

We have height adequately covered with Carlisle, Brown, Gilbert and Roberton so will not easily be out-marked.

So we look to mid-sized support, with the aforementioned "transition" ability AND defensive abilities.

So not losing their feet in a contest, good, quick hands, good awareness, good pace and the ability to kick long with accuracy.

And the ability to play the role assigned to them - which will include creating disruption and havoc in the contest and carrying the ball from the contest.

I really think, that with some luck and a pro-active selection policy, we can make significant progress in 2017 - so we put our best side on the park and those with L Plates gain experience in the Magoos.

Who wins in 2017 will be a fluke, such is the competition and it may as well be St Kilda.

[dragit]

I gotta admire your commitment TtT…

I'm tipping the player judged 2nd in our B&F last year will play most weeks this year… ahead of Brown, Roberton, & Gilbert… We don't really have any other player that can really lock down on dangerous smalls like Gears can.

I reckon your head might explode if gets named captain as is whispered.

[BigMart]

I think Geary would ask the coach how he went from the second best performed player at the club, to not being in the best 22.. Wouldn't he?

Gilbert (as a defender) will not be a part of the back 6 initially. A utility rotation perhaps or just missing out. But Geary would be the second defender picked by Rohan Welsh... After Sean Dempster... 3rd would be Roberton, 4th would be brown...

Then the either Carlisle and a running back... Or two running backs ... Depending on opposition match ups