Five reasons not to go for Fyfe next year

[Bluthy]

The huge star move coming with a huge salary and/or costing high picks is an interesting phenomena. So much pressure and expectation land on a players and clubs shoulders that it often does feel like they stake too much on one player. Is it a structure problem or more the psychological weight of betting so much on one player and undue focus being on them? There also seems to be this sense that a player needs to dominate to justify the move and that brings its own pressures and maybe throws out team balance. Other player can subconsciously kind of hang back thinking the star will do all the work or not want to get in their way and not develop properly.

I said earlier in the year that Swans still seemed to reliant on Buddy. Tippet and the other forwards never seemed to know where to go with Buddy covering so much ground and demanding the ball constantly - a bit like us with Rooey so dominate all the time. Did that pressure for Buddy to feel he needs to repay Swans lead to Buddy's mental health pressure?

In a weird way, Boyd going to dogs on such crazy money at a really young age was perfect, as Beveridge could mould him exactly how he wanted. Bevo was also brave to play him in the two's if he wanted until he felt Boyd was ready. At such a young age, Boyd didn't need to dominate, just keep working on his role as the huge forward who brings the ball to ground and take the occasional mark and it worked beautifully. Bevo handled him perfectly. A smart coach can manage any situation including making it a team first environment which Richo looks good at doing.

There are rumours that Freo players find Fyfe overbearing, constantly telling them how they should play and haranguing them. What does his move do to team harmony if he comes in on crazy money. His injuries are a concern. You tend to remember these star players at their peak, Judd using his burst speed and over value them from where they actually are now. We'd have to look carefully at Fyfe's physcial state after a couple of bad injuries.

But I feel Richo could manage Fyfe. Maybe Fyfe is acting out a bit at frustration with Lyon's methods. Look at all the off-season shenanigans at Freo under Lyon. His grinding style is not the most fun to play. If fyfe can play a great season again and is a FA and wants out - wowee. I would be amazed if we weren't right into him. A monster ball winning, marking, x-factor machine. We lack a centre-piece midfielder IMO - one who is genuinely inside and outside and is like 2 players on the field. IF Steven becomes your No. 2 best mid, that then is a premiership winning midfield.

I still worry a bit about our midfield. Our high picks have gone to other positions, not an out and out star onballer. Fyfe would fill that hole.

[The Fireman]

[saynta]

Did that pressure for Buddy to feel he needs to repay Swans lead to Buddy's mental health pressure?

Do you actually believe that Buddy had mental health problems?

[Bluthy]

Did that pressure for Buddy to feel he needs to repay Swans lead to Buddy's mental health pressure?

Do you actually believe that Buddy had mental health problems?

Its' all related - personality, drugs, alcohol, pressure, anxiety/depression - things spiral out of control and one thing leads to the next as coping mechanisms

[saint64]

Just to throw a few more names into the mix for the sake of argument:
Greg Williams - 1 flag
Alastair Lynch - 1 flag
Ron Barassi - 2 flags
Bernie Quinlan - 2 Prelims (?)
Nathan Buckley - 1 GF (?)
Darren Jarman - 2 flags

Lynchy won 3 flags Buckley played in 2 GFs

My bad - my stats book must be a 2001 edition!

[dragit]

If we could front-end a lot of the salary for either Martin or Fyfe without losing any picks then we'd be mad not to go after them, both are top 10 mids in the comp could make the difference at the pointy end of the year.

We currently have heaps of spare room and will retire Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster soon.

If it becomes picks and huge dollars then it's a no.

Fyfe will re-sign with Freo anyway and Martin will probably go to Hawthorn at this rate.

[Con Gorozidis]

What would happen if we put you in a room with Fyfe and Gilbo?

[saintspremiers]

No to Fyfe. We've got potential Fyfes on the list. This year will reveal Acres and Gresham as elite. Dunstan too. Stick with our own. As for giving him the captaincy, that would be a disaster. We've got our own. Offer the bont a million. Now you're talking.

The Gresh won't be an elite in 2017.

The Tonestar has stated other clubs will be onto him and will develop ways to stop him during this off season.

Add to that second year blues and I'll make the call now he won't be a superstar until 2018.

[SaintWodonga]

How about this reason:

Strong draft next year, we'll have 2 1st round picks...

[White Winmar]

No to Fyfe. We've got potential Fyfes on the list. This year will reveal Acres and Gresham as elite. Dunstan too. Stick with our own. As for giving him the captaincy, that would be a disaster. We've got our own. Offer the bont a million. Now you're talking.

The Gresh won't be an elite in 2017.

The Tonestar has stated other clubs will be onto him and will develop ways to stop him during this off season.

Add to that second year blues and I'll make the call now he won't be a superstar until 2018.

Showing great confidence in the lad. Imagine if AR took him aside and said, "listen Gresh, they've worked you out so we won't expect much from you. Throw in the inevitable second year blues and you're pretty much screwed. Bide your time at Sandy and come back in 2018."

[saynta]

Just to throw a few more names into the mix for the sake of argument:
Greg Williams - 1 flag
Alastair Lynch - 1 flag
Ron Barassi - 2 flags
Bernie Quinlan - 2 Prelims (?)
Nathan Buckley - 1 GF (?)
Darren Jarman - 2 flags

Wade, Rantell and Davis= Norths first flag

[skeptic]

We spoke about this a while ago...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91476&p=1631795&hilit=Fyfe#p1631795

It all comes down to cost...
2 first round picks
+ at least 1 or 2 quality players squeezed out via salary cap strain caused by salary

Is Fyfe worth 4 players?

Players like him... they're great players but they cost too much

[saint64]

Just to throw a few more names into the mix for the sake of argument:
Greg Williams - 1 flag
Alastair Lynch - 1 flag
Ron Barassi - 2 flags
Bernie Quinlan - 2 Prelims (?)
Nathan Buckley - 1 GF (?)
Darren Jarman - 2 flags

Wade, Rantell and Davis= Norths first flag

Good call Saynta. All great players

[Bluthy]

How about this reason:

Strong draft next year, we'll have 2 1st round picks...

Yep and if Fyfe doesn't sign with Freo he becomes a RFA - we can throw some crazy money from our war chest at him that Freo will struggle to match with their recent big trades - and we get to keep our picks. Juicy, juicy outcome.

http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/fr ... feb09a246a

FREMANTLE list manager Brad Lloyd admits the club is yet to start negotiations for a new contract to lock away star midfielder Nat Fyfe, but has expressed his confidence about retaining the Brownlow medallist.

Lloyd said he was in constant contact with Fyfe’s manager Jason Dover but was not rushing talks.

The 25-year-old is due to become a restricted free agent at the end of 2017, when his current three-year deal expires.

Fyfe’s situation is set to be an ongoing story in 2017, with several clubs believed to be preparing to try to lure him away from WA.

He has shown good signs at training in the past week as he comes off a second fracture to his right leg.

“I speak to Jason Dover, his manager, all the time,” Lloyd told the AFL website. “We haven’t gone into any contract discussion at this stage with Nat. But I’ve never really seen it as an issue from our end, retaining Nat. I’m confident that he’ll want to stay at the club. He seems really invested, really interested in the players we’re bringing in, really interested in the direction we’re taking so no concern whatsoever with Nat.”

I sniff something here. Fyfe was injured for the majority of last year and had tonnes of down time and you haven't even started negotiations?? I think Fyfe was really spooked by how things collapsed so badly last year and is seeing how things go next year. He is a damn ambitious lad and wants a flag badly. If he feels Ross can't deliver and he can set himself up for life with a huge contract at another club I think he could go.

If he can can show his leg is right this year, we have built a war chest specifically for poaching a FA so I don't know why people are freaking out about the cap. We would front load something for the first couple of years while we have huge cap space - I think we were even allowed to roll Carlisle's salary into next year, which lets us roll some of this years into next years and so on.

And even in a worse case scenario where he breaks down - so what? Cost us nothing in pics and used up the cap space for a few years that would probably just be sitting there anyway. Imgaine having a stab at a flag with Fyfe, Rooey, Joey and Armo still firing. And then our undergrads will step up after they go and come into their peak for more stabs. WE've built the list very well in that regard to keep us up for a while but we could pinch one early if we land Fyfe.

There is actually very low risk with Fyfe getting him as a FA. We have the money for him - the list has been designed that way. When Paddy, Acres, Gresh, Billings become bona fide superstars and need very high pay, we will have made a lot of space with Rooey, Joey, Gilbo etc all going. Dogs were brave with Boyd and it paid off huge. No guts, no glory.

[spert]

Roo, Kosi, Lenny, Dal, Milne, no flag

[Con Gorozidis]

How about this reason:

Strong draft next year, we'll have 2 1st round picks...

Two first rounders is mouth watering. Especially if they are two top picks in top 15.

[sunsaint]

Dogs were brave with Boyd and it paid off huge. No guts, no glory.

we did similar with NDS
so now we are only arguing about value

There are many posters who believe we currently have a top four side possibly battling a place in the GF
so contracts are going to escalate markedly - we gain big salary cap with Roo and if montagna is earning too dollar I would be angry
But I dont see it as a like for like swap salary wise for Fyfe
I would agree we are still lacking a true A+ midfielder but I truly believe we need to look elsewhere than Fyfe

[White Winmar]

Agreed, SS. Let's go after Kelly, or preferably Shiel. Either one of those would represent better value, IMHO. Less disruptive presence and young enough to give us ten years.

[The Fireman]

What would happen if we put you in a room with Fyfe and Gilbo?

I'm torn

[Jacks Back]

Roo, Kosi, Lenny, Dal, Milne, no flag

It wasn't the top end of the list that cost us a flag.

[#gosaintas]

Fyfe is the best player in the afl and I would love to get him. The profile of the club would go through the roof.

[prwilkinson]

Fyfe is the best player in the afl and I would love to get him. The profile of the club would go through the roof.

Let's just see how his return to footy goes in 2017. I'd hate for the club to break the bank on a player just because he was killing it 3 years ago.

[Bluthy]

Dogs were brave with Boyd and it paid off huge. No guts, no glory.

we did similar with NDS
so now we are only arguing about value

There are many posters who believe we currently have a top four side possibly battling a place in the GF
so contracts are going to escalate markedly - we gain big salary cap with Roo and if montagna is earning too dollar I would be angry
But I dont see it as a like for like swap salary wise for Fyfe
I would agree we are still lacking a true A+ midfielder but I truly believe we need to look elsewhere than Fyfe

So you're saying you wouldn't want to get possibly the best player in the competition that wouldn't cost us anything in picks because you are worried about the salary cap despite us having no genuine stars apart from the oldies and the club has designed the list to accommodate a big fish FA?. Do you think they are lying when they have said all this:

ST KILDA says it is determined to take advantage of the AFL’s new salary cap banking system as it considers chasing free agents this year.

Under new equalisation measures clubs who pay 95 per cent of the salary cap in a season can “bank” that extra cash and add it to their wage bill the next year.

If clubs with young lists have front-ended player contracts to clear space for future years, they could effectively pay $1 million extra in any given year.

St Kilda chief operating officer Ameet Bains said the club was thrilled with the output of recent acquisitions Josh Bruce, Tim Membrey, Shane Savage, Luke Delaney and Maverick Weller.

Under the club’s detailed list strategy, 2016 is their perfect time to lure a free agent, but the Saints won’t die wondering if players are available in October.

They will have probably paid some of our young talent a bit above market while we have the extra funds just to get upto the 95%. People need to get used to the idea we are after a big FA and not be so prissy about it. The best players get paid huge money. Thats how it works - ask Roo. And Fyfe is exactly the sort of big fish we have been dangling our FA line for - possibly the best player in the comp in his prime costing no picks. We could offer something like $1.25 over two years and 750 for the third. That is manageable where we are with our young talent. As they hit their 25 y.o period and have shown high level AFL consistently, then yes you need to pay them well but we will have space from Rooy, Joey, Demps et and Fyfe will come down to that more manageable amount.

I think people are falling into that classic trap of over-rating our list and over rating some of our new recruits. Every collingwood fan I've spoken with, not one rues losing brown - they all say the same thing - he is ok as a defensive backman but you don't want the ball in his hand - he was their Delaney. Stevens was forced out of dogs team by Libatore with only a few seasons under his belt. Freeman has barely got on the field.

Melbourne have a much larger amount of high picks on the their list that us. GWS I think got something like 3 top ten picks this draft to just throw on top of their elite pile. GC took 4 top ten picks I think. And people don't want Fyfe the best player in the comp who gives us a genuine competitive advantage over them? Thats crazy. What if Fyfe ends up at Melbourne and we play them in a grannie and Fyfe is ripping it out of the middle constantly?

People are getting too carried away by depth and forgetting you can only have 22 players on the field at one time. We can keep adding Stevens and Browns from here in and they are not going to make our 22 better than GWS. We need quality, which by definition increases your depth. Suddenly Jack Steven is our number two mid and won't get a hard tag and becomes even better.

IF Fyfe wants out of Freo, I have no doubt we will throw huge cash at him as we should. You don't turn down the best player in the comp for no picks. You just don't.

[desertsaint]

if Cousins had played in that 2009 final i'd expect we'd've won it. heck if Harvs had stayed on one more year I suspect we'd've won it.
and no, we'd've doesn't exist - my own lazy invention. not copyrighted. feel free.

Bu the trouble with superstars is there a lot cheaper on the journey there. bit more expensive once on the top of the hill and the journey down.
but we'd be mad not to deeply consider it.

[dragit]

Agreed, SS. Let's go after Kelly, or preferably Shiel. Either one of those would represent better value, IMHO. Less disruptive presence and young enough to give us ten years.

Both great players but I don't think they are better value if they cost us 2 first round picks compared to no picks.

The beauty of a gun FA next year is that we also get to use 2 first round picks in the draft.