Best 22

[MC Gusto]

Who is good at pulling together a best 22.

I have lunch on who finishes highest between myself, a bomber mate and a dees mate.

We are kicking things off with a bit of a 'best 22' comparison and i am hopeless at pulling these things together...

could use some help from my fellow saintsationalists!

[Beno88]

In my opinion...

B : J.Geary - J.Carlisle - S.Savage
HB: D.Roberton - S.Dempster - J.Webster
C : N.Riewoldt - L.Dunstan - J.Newnes
HF : M.Weller - J.Bruce - B.Acres
F: T.Membrey - P.McCartin - J.Gresham
R : T.Hickey - J.Steven - S.Ross
I : D.Armitage - J.Billings - L.Montagna - J.Steele

E : S.Gilbert - D.McKenzie - K.Stevens

Unlucky : N.Brown - N.Wright - B.White - J.Lonie - J.Sinclair - H.Goddard

Unknown : N.Freeman

[prwilkinson]

Pretty good signs when you can't fit them all in.

[To the top]

No doubt we are starting to bat a lot deeper - given reputation matches contribution.

But, at this early juncture, with all available, fit and in form:-

Gilbert Brown White
Roberton Carlisle Montagna
Riewoldt Armitage Acres
Billings Bruce Weller
Freeman McCartin Membrey
Hickey Dunstan Steven
Steele Ross Newnes Gresham

Not too badly balanced with height and pace

Brown is there until Goddard shows what is required.

[White Winmar]

In my opinion...

B : J.Geary - J.Carlisle - S.Savage
HB: D.Roberton - S.Dempster - J.Webster
C : N.Riewoldt - L.Dunstan - J.Newnes
HF : M.Weller - J.Bruce - B.Acres
F: T.Membrey - P.McCartin - J.Gresham
R : T.Hickey - J.Steven - S.Ross
I : D.Armitage - J.Billings - L.Montagna - J.Steele

E : S.Gilbert - D.McKenzie - K.Stevens

Unlucky : N.Brown - N.Wright - B.White - J.Lonie - J.Sinclair - H.Goddard

Unknown : N.Freeman

Love it, Beno. Brown for Dempster. Maybe, but not necessarily. Many gooduns left out. Good signs.

[MC Gusto]

thanks guys this is awesome

i went with Beno's team, subbed dempster for brown, but put brown at FB and jakey boy at CHB.

also swapped armo with dunstan

[MC Gusto]

oh i also put b white as an emergency b/c i reckon he will be regular 22 by seasons end and i loved his cameo in the last game of the season

[MrCordz]

Backs: Geary. Brown. Dempster

HB: Montagna. Carlisle. Roberton

C: Acres . Armitage Riewoldt

HF Weller. Bruce. Stevens

FF: Membrey. McCartin. Gresham

R : Hickey. Ross. Steven

Bench: Gilbert, Savage, Long, Steele

Em: Dunstan, Webster, Billings

[prwilkinson]

That team looks so good with Rooey just floating around the middle doing as he likes.

[longtimesaint]

Backs: Geary. Brown. Dempster

HB: Montagna. Carlisle. Roberton

C: Acres . Armitage Riewoldt

HF Weller. Bruce. Stevens

FF: Membrey. McCartin. Gresham

R : Hickey. Ross. Steven

Bench: Gilbert, Savage, Long, Steele

Em: Dunstan, Webster, Billings

I wouldn't think Long would start ahead of Dunstan or Billings.
He would have to earn his place.

[st.byron]

No doubt we are starting to bat a lot deeper - given reputation matches contribution.

But, at this early juncture, with all available, fit and in form:-

Gilbert Brown White
Roberton Carlisle Montagna
Riewoldt Armitage Acres
Billings Bruce Weller
Freeman McCartin Membrey
Hickey Dunstan Steven
Steele Ross Newnes Gresham

Not too badly balanced with height and pace

Brown is there until Goddard shows what is required.

If Geary is fit he'll play.

[fugazi]

Strangely, at some point Dempster and Monty will have to mnake way for the likes of DMac and White....even if they are still better players.

We have to get games into these guys and Freeman if available.

[Bluthy]

Lets play all 5 rucks, Carlisle, Goddard, Brown, Coughlan, Roberton, Paddy, Roo, Bruce, Members, Battle & Acres - and we'll play a volleyball style game up in the air. And Lonie, Gresh, Sincs and Steven can run around biting the oppo ankles on the sly.

This is such a hard thing to answer now as preseason performances and fitness will undoubtedly factor in. Plus the team that starts out for round 1 will not be the longer term team that they are will be looking to shape for 2017. For example, how long will Steele's ankle to take to be fully recovered? Then Richo may want to ease him in by playing some VFL to show some form but I think Richo will definitely want Steele to stake a place in our 22 this year sooner rather than later as we traded a 2nd rounder for him so we must value him pretty high.

So I'll try and name a team for Round 1 based on who the guys were who cemented a spot last year which has to be your starting point.

Backs: Geary. Brown. Dempster
HB: Montagna. Carlisle. Roberton
C: Acres . Armitage Riewoldt
HF Weller. Bruce. Billings
FF: Membrey. McCartin. Gresham
R : Hickey. Ross. Steven

Bench: Gilbert, Newnes, Dunstan, K Stevens

Stevens gets into our 22 as I think Richo wants the bigger bodies to increase our tackling to stop team running through and over us which happened a bit last year and also more spread. Steele I think will get eased into the season through the seconds unless he can get his ankle 100% quick and train the house down. Weller despite great leadership might under pressure if he can't get more of the footy. If White can keep performing I think he is a chance even early in the season. Savage doesn't hit enough targets from halfback despite some nice run and long kicks. Rice could be looking at another year of seconds but hopefully will get a game or two as I dig him. Long might be one that Richo wants to fast track to be an improvement on Wrights forward pressure but I think needs to earn his stripes with Sandy first. Webster could be a casualty of so many good young half backs who can kick well. Gilbo is going to have to keep playing well or else the pressure for his spot will get huge. Although those long arms of his are so handy helping out in defence, with Brown and CArlisle giving us good height, maybe that is less needed. Robbo needs to keep evolving too, maybe show he can be a Gilbo type replacement who can rebound but also provide really good defensive coverage with his height. I think he needs to stack on a bit of weight and try and take over Dempsters third defender role.

So many questions to be answered this year. If really feels like the team is on a threshold with the oldies holding their spots with their size, tank and experience, but so many youngsters banging the door down looking for a shot. How experimental will Richo be? Last year he wasn't very experimental wanting wins badly. Will he feel like he wants to set the team up or next year by trying to get games into White, Rice, Long, Goddard, Mckenzie etc or try a sneaky flag shot this year with the bigger more experienced players?

My worry is Geary Brown and Dempster are all very defensive defenders who can't use the ball well. But I think all 3 will start in the team. But if we look too flat at the back look for the changes happening. Our list is defo looking stronger. We need the cream to really rise to the top now and Richo be prepared to take some chances rather than playing it too safe.

[To the top]

I agree with the summary of Geary and Dempster - hence my inclusion of White.

We also need a spread of very quick players, hence the hope and trust with Freeman

From the side I have offered I would say that Weller and Membrey are the 2 who have to perform noting who Membrey kicked his "bags" against last season.

[footynut]

FB Geary. Brown. Webster
HB: Savage . Carlisle. Roberton
C: Acres . Armitage Riewoldt
HF Weller. Bruce. Billings
FF: Membrey. McCartin. Gresham
R : Hickey. Ross. Steven

Bench: Gilbert, Dunstan, Steele Montagna

It's tight and i dont really want Gilbert in the team due to his efficency by foot.

[fugazi]

Billings will feel alot of pressure to perform this year.
Sinclair, Lonie, even Minch and now Ben Long eyeing off his spot.

[saintbob]

Dempster Brown Geary

Roberton Carlisle Webster

Riewoldt Steele Billings

Weller Bruce Acres

Gresham McCartin Membrey

Hickey Ross Steven

I/C Armitage Newnes Stevens Savage

[St DAC]

Given Freeman has played exactly zero AFL senior games how on earth could he be in anyone's best 22?

I hope he comes good but really we've no idea just how good (or otherwise) he could be.

[To the top]

Top 10 Draft Pick we traded with Collingwood to get.

On that basis, given he is fit and in form he would be in our best 22.

Otherwise why did we trade to get him?

[Bluthy]

Top 10 Draft Pick we traded with Collingwood to get.

On that basis, given he is fit and in form he would be in our best 22.

Otherwise why did we trade to get him?

I think this is the wrong attitude to take towards Freeman as you are just setting yourself up for disappointment. It's better to see Freeman as a project player with corresponding odds of making it. He played one good game in the devs (very low standard) and then all we can say about the other handful of games in the VFL is he got through them - which is a positive for sure but only a starting point.

There are a hella lot of obstacles he needs to get through before he can be thought of as in our best 22 - get through preseason with no or minimal injuries/tweaks, be ok to play a game, be ok to play in the VFL, play a full game in the VFL, prove effective in the VFL with decent numbers, see if he has that burst speed back, string together good games in the VFL to put himself up for selection the seniors, be an opening in the seniors he could do (such as wing, half-forward), be selected in seniors for his first game, get through that, show enough to get another game, string together a few good performances in the seniors. I doubt all that will happen this year.

People need to chill out about Freeman. If he can get a good chunk of VFL footy under his belt this year and show a bit of form and promise that is a big win. There will still be a lot of ups and downs with this guy for sure. Putting a "best 22" label on him is pointless at this stage. I don't think the club will be trying to rush him at all. We've got some decent depth around the midfield now. It actually takes the pressure of Freezer.

[To the top]

So the summary of that is that he is in the same position as every other player.

He needs to justify selection and then inclusion.

My view is that we went out of our way to secure him because his credentials say he improves a weakness in our side and a weakness that finds us out.

And on that basis, in an equal world, he is in our best 22.

[SaintPav]

So the summary of that is that he is in the same position as every other player.

He needs to justify selection and then inclusion.

My view is that we went out of our way to secure him because his credentials say he improves a weakness in our side and a weakness that finds us out.

And on that basis, in an equal world, he is in our best 22.

Bluthy's right. People need to manage their expectations.

Freeman is not in our best 22 by a long long mile.

What happened 2 years ago and 4 years ago is now ancient history and is now irrelevant.

Things change.

[cwrcyn]

B: Roberton Dempster Webster
HB: Savage Carlisle Gilbert
C Riewoldt Ross Newnes
HF: Billings Bruce Gresham
F: Weller McCartin Membrey

R: Hickey Steven Armitage

Inter: Geary Acres Dunstan Montagna

Emerg (in order of preference) Steele, Stevens, McKenzie, Wright, Sinclair, Longer, Brown, White, Minchington, Lonie

Injured: Goddard, Freeman

[Con Gorozidis]

B: Roberton Dempster Webster
HB: Savage Carlisle Gilbert
C Riewoldt Ross Newnes
HF: Billings Bruce Gresham
F: Weller McCartin Membrey

R: Hickey Steven Armitage

Inter: Geary Acres Dunstan Montagna

Emerg (in order of preference) Steele, Stevens, McKenzie, Wright, Sinclair, Longer, Brown, White, Minchington, Lonie

Injured: Goddard, Freeman

Seems fair at this stage with our current information. That side would take some beating. I would probably swap Geary for Savage but apart from that.

[SaintPav]

Reality check.

It's a logical fallacy (false cause) to believe that we have a great list because we can't fit everyone into the 22.

It could mean that no one stands out and that we have a few average players. Think a tall and narrow distribution curve.

I also have a problem with the same old players in out 'best team' Gilbert, Montagna and even Dempster come to mind.

We need to pump games into McKenzie, White, Goddard, Lonoie, Sinclair, Steele and Long pronto or we'll never get anywhere.

We still have a few weaknesses.

The backlines in the 'best team' lack:

Plenty of grunt but lack of 2 elite kickers out of the back half. We don't have any and have really struggled in this area since both NDS and BJ left the club.
Lack of run, carry, speed and spread in the midfield. Though this improved last year.
Not enough players who can play through the midfield. Again, this keeps improving which is good.

At this stage teams listed above won't automatically fix these problems in my opinion.