Cam O'Shea

[WellardSaint]

I am not really understanding all of the negative comments being thrown at Cam O'Shea.

If you look at this guy's past history he was consistently knocking on the door of Port's best 22 in every season he played.

He enjoyed a breakout year in 2013 when our coach was at the Power.

If O'Shea ends up at the Saints then Richo will probably be behind the decision given their past history.

He is exactly what we need down back: a tall, versatile, defender who reads the play well and, at a pinch, could go in the midfield. Besides we get him as a DFA.

I don't understand the negativity towards O'Shea in the same way I don't understand why some people think Kobe Stevens was not a good pick up.

The Bulldogs had a stellar first half of 2016 much of it due to Kobe's work in the midfield for the dogs. Then he was injured and couldn't force his way back into a settled midfield.

Poor form was not the reason. In any case I really back our coach, who has a fantastic history of getting the best out of players discarded by other clubs.

You couldn't get two better examples than Roberton and Membrey. So let's all just chill and trust our coach and club to do what they think is best.

Roberton was simply not part of Freo's planning, not "discarded" which implies "not really AFL standard".
Skunk couldn't break into Shitney due to Tippett and Buddy, and Swans actually did the right thing by him and let him go instead of stagnating in a lower comp.
So they're not rejects at all.

[Goose is king]

[quote="WellardSaint"][quote="damienc"]I am not really understanding all of the negative comments being thrown at Cam O'Shea.

If you look at this guy's past history he was consistently knocking on the door of Port's best 22 in every season he played.

He enjoyed a breakout year in 2013 when our coach was at the Power.

If O'Shea ends up at the Saints then Richo will probably be behind the decision given their past history.

He is exactly what we need down back: a tall, versatile, defender who reads the play well and, at a pinch, could go in the midfield. Besides we get him as a DFA.

I don't understand the negativity towards O'Shea in the same way I don't understand why some people think Kobe Stevens was not a good pick up.

The Bulldogs had a stellar first half of 2016 much of it due to Kobe's work in the midfield for the dogs. Then he was injured and couldn't force his way back into a settled midfield.

Poor form was not the reason. In any case I really back our coach, who has a fantastic history of getting the best out of players discarded by other clubs.

You couldn't get two better examples than Roberton and Membrey. So let's all just chill and trust our coach and club to do what they think is best.[/quote]
Roberton was simply not part of Freo's planning, not "discarded" which implies "not really AFL standard".
Skunk couldn't break into Shitney due to Tippett and Buddy, and Swans actually did the right thing by him and let him go instead of stagnating in a lower comp.
So they're not rejects at all.[/quote]


Well, Weller was a reject that Richo helped turn around

[Zed]

If you look at the 190+ rebounding defenders on the list it's Roberton and Gilbo - and Gilbo has had his injury problems. Who knows, 2017 could also be Gilbert's last season. Dempster is more a lock down / interceptor - and could also be his last season. White is not quite 190 and still developing. Fisher played as a rebounder whilst also playing as a KPD in recent years. O'Shea provides depth and imho is a better option on the list than say redrafting Eli or drafting a kid who may take a couple of years to break into our ever stronger list. I wouldn't be unhappy.

[Rosco]

Would be OK as a rookie.

I'd like to see us pick 3 18yo kids in the draft.

[fugazi]

Would be OK as a rookie.

I'd like to see us pick 3 18yo kids in the draft.

We'll.get two good ones this year and two exceptional one next year.....should keep us rolling

[Rosco]

If we keep the two first rounders next year...
(Traded our second rounder)

[fugazi]

Reckon we should keep.both first rounders next year

As for O'Shea I think we are taking an educated punt on a kid who Richo knows could be very good if he can get his head right. A move back home to Melbourne under a familiar coech could be the perfect start.
Better bet than resigning a 34 year backman albeit a club great.

[Rosco]

I'd like to keep both 1st rounders, but you entertain offers and can land big fish.

Oshea is 25 before next season, so not a kid. He looks ok and ticks some boxes, but rather rookie if we can.

[st.byron]

Reckon we should keep.both first rounders next year

Seems from what Jaxons wrote during the trade period that we're looking at a young gun like Josh Kelly or Dylan Shiel with at least one of our first rounders next year. Maybe both or one of the first rounders and a player. Makes sense to me if we can land an elite young mid who's proven he's up to the mark rather than going through the draft.

[ace]

First things first.
We must add 4 players to our senior list by either rookie upgrade or in the national draft. WRONG
We have contracted and upgraded Jason Holmes
That means we must make picks 23, 36 and 61 in the draft - no choice.

If we want O'Shea as a delisted free agent we must delist a senior player.
Now that causes a problem because you can't go and delist a contracted player without paying out the contract within the salary cap.
So unless you can name an uncontracted player who we can delist we can not take O'Shea as a delisted free agent.

If no club wants him as a delisted free agent or he refuses then he can go into the national draft where we could take O'Shea with pick 61.

Those are the only ways he gets to St Kilda. WRONG

[Batnoe]

First things first.
We must add 4 players to our senior list by either rookie upgrade or in the national draft.
We have contracted and upgraded Jason Holmes
That means we must make picks 23, 36 and 61 in the draft - no choice.

If we want O'Shea as a delisted free agent we must delist a senior player.
Now that causes a problem because you can't go and delist a contracted player without paying out the contract within the salary cap.
So unless you can name an uncontracted player who we can delist we can not take O'Shea as a delisted free agent.

If no club wants him as a delisted free agent or he refuses then he can go into the national draft where we could take O'Shea with pick 61.

Those are the only ways he gets to St Kilda.

No, we must take a minimum of 3 live picks in the national draft (including rookie upgrades)
So we can take any delisted player as a delisted free agent therefore giving us less spots on our list. We then use our first 2 picks on draft and then upgrade Holmes with pick 61.

[saintsRrising]

I agree with Batnoe's response.

First things first.

If we want O'Shea as a delisted free agent we must delist a senior player.
Now that causes a problem because you can't go and delist a contracted player without paying out the contract within the salary cap.

So unless you can name an un-contracted player who we can delist we can not take O'Shea as a delisted free agent.

Is not really a probelm as in 2017 we will probably be well under. Say round the 95% mark and so could afford to bankroll it. However the 95% is so that we can back the 5% to pay overs in the years that we land a star FA or two (if we do that is) and so the club would not be too keen to consume too much of that 5%.

If no club wants him as a delisted free agent or he refuses then he can go into the national draft where we could take O'Shea with pick 61.

The FREE in Free Agent means that no club can DFA him unless he wants to be as the player is free to chose. So what other clubs may want DFA wise is irrelvant, it is what the player wants.

It is if he elects to go in the Draft or PSD that other clubs can choose him with his consent. In the PSD he can nominate a contract amount.

Those are the only ways he gets to St Kilda.

DFA guarantees StKilda.

He can go Draft or PSD but then another club may take him. It could b that if other club's want him and are prepared to DFA him that he may then decide to not risk the uncertainties of the Draft or PSD.

Though as he was delisted and has been a bit rocky of late it would be bold of another club to draft him if he was not really keen to go there.

Key in this if we are interest will be how Trout and Co rate the kids that are likely to still be available at 61. Though 61 will probably not be the 61st player taken as picks will vanish due to the academy players sucking up points.

[ace]

First things first.
We must add 4 players to our senior list by either rookie upgrade or in the national draft.
We have contracted and upgraded Jason Holmes
That means we must make picks 23, 36 and 61 in the draft - no choice.

If we want O'Shea as a delisted free agent we must delist a senior player.
Now that causes a problem because you can't go and delist a contracted player without paying out the contract within the salary cap.
So unless you can name an uncontracted player who we can delist we can not take O'Shea as a delisted free agent.

If no club wants him as a delisted free agent or he refuses then he can go into the national draft where we could take O'Shea with pick 61.

Those are the only ways he gets to St Kilda.

No, we must take a minimum of 3 live picks in the national draft (including rookie upgrades)
So we can take any delisted player as a delisted free agent therefore giving us less spots on our list. We then use our first 2 picks on draft and then upgrade Holmes with pick 61.

CORRECT
"Each club must have at least three selections in the NAB AFL Draft"
AFL Record Season 2016, page 380 THE DRAFT paragraph 1, 3rd sentence

"Pre-selected players are included as one or more of club's three compulsory selections that must be taken at the National Draft Meeting".
AFL Record Season 2016, page 380 THE DRAFT paragraph 4

But Holmes will only be recorded as a rookie upgrade not as pick 61 or whatever number that finally becomes.
In practice we lose whatever value pick 61 has, but would get O'Shea.

So is O'Shea worth giving up pick 61 to us.

[SaintPav]

I am not really understanding all of the negative comments being thrown at Cam O'Shea.

If you look at this guy's past history he was consistently knocking on the door of Port's best 22 in every season he played.

He enjoyed a breakout year in 2013 when our coach was at the Power.

If O'Shea ends up at the Saints then Richo will probably be behind the decision given their past history.

He is exactly what we need down back: a tall, versatile, defender who reads the play well and, at a pinch, could go in the midfield. Besides we get him as a DFA.

I don't understand the negativity towards O'Shea in the same way I don't understand why some people think Kobe Stevens was not a good pick up.

The Bulldogs had a stellar first half of 2016 much of it due to Kobe's work in the midfield for the dogs. Then he was injured and couldn't force his way back into a settled midfield.

Poor form was not the reason. In any case I really back our coach, who has a fantastic history of getting the best out of players discarded by other clubs.

You couldn't get two better examples than Roberton and Membrey. So let's all just chill and trust our coach and club to do what they think is best.

Roberton was simply not part of Freo's planning, not "discarded" which implies "not really AFL standard".
Skunk couldn't break into Shitney due to Tippett and Buddy, and Swans actually did the right thing by him and let him go instead of stagnating in a lower comp.
So they're not rejects at all.

How would you know about what Freo were planning? From memory Freo wanted Robertson to stay which makes sense because he is a good player and has been a fine pick up.

[Gershwin]

I guess I 'm warming to him because of his last 2 games:
Melb Excellent job on Watts.
Adel Good job on Lynch keeping him to two goals.

But if it means we only take 2 18 year-olds this year (other than rookies) then I find that disappointing.

[cwrcyn]

With so many players already in that 19 to 23 age group, and having delisted 7 players this year, it's going to be hard to know who to offload next year. Selecting just two 18 year olds this year won't be such a bad thing, from a list management point of view. My guess is we'll only be able to make three selections next year, so two first rounders and a third rounder will be all, I suspect. Massive competition for spots over the next three years, which can only be good for us.

On Cam O'Shea, I don't know much about him, but if we recruit another young key defender this year or next, it'll take 3 years before they're ready, so any additional height we can secure in defense for the short term would be a sensible move.

[the dome]

Goose is king I tend to agree,
AR has an impressive history of getting the best out of players exiting other clubs for us Sainters.
O'Shea could well go onto greater & better things with AR in his corner.
Coming back to Victoria could also help Cam successfully settle into the red, black & white.
A couple of 'coulds' yes but I tend to agree with you on AR's ability to help players maximise their potential.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can we offer him a two year contract but rookie list him as a dfa? Then we simply upgrade him next year when Dempster retires.

[supersaints]

Went shooting with his brother Rick....

[Johnny Favier]

Went shooting with his brother Rick....

Well I guess sooner or later somebody was eventually gonna crack that one...

[Jacks Back]

Went shooting with his brother Rick....

Well I guess sooner or later somebody was eventually gonna crack that one...

TO'Shea

[Rosco]

Can we offer him a two year contract but rookie list him as a dfa? Then we simply upgrade him next year when Dempster retires.

i don't think you can rookie list a DFA. i think you can only get to the rookie list via the rookie draft (unless you are one of those international category B? rookies).

[ctqs]

With so many players already in that 19 to 23 age group, and having delisted 7 players this year, it's going to be hard to know who to offload next year. Selecting just two 18 year olds this year won't be such a bad thing, from a list management point of view. My guess is we'll only be able to make three selections next year, so two first rounders and a third rounder will be all, I suspect. Massive competition for spots over the next three years, which can only be good for us.

I know exactly what you're saying but my hope is that this time next year we won't be cutting players but trading them for picks because their value will have increased.

[cwrcyn]

That may mean making an early call on some players who have yet to fulfill their potential. Fraught with danger, as we've seen the late flourishing of guys like Seb Ross. The obvious one is the ruck situation, with four rucks on the list we can afford to trade one out. It could be that Riewoldt, Montagna, and Dempster all retire at the end of 2017, which would make the list management a bit easier. It's usually pretty easy to write up a list of guys who won't make the grade, but looking through our list where it currently stands, I cannot make a call on any except Jason Holmes. Minchington just got a two year deal, and I still see potential in Sinclair and Lonie. White and Rice have only been with us a year, and Freeman could be a star if he can overcome his hamstring issues. Outside of that, I'm scratching my head.......

[Con Gorozidis]

Can we offer him a two year contract but rookie list him as a dfa? Then we simply upgrade him next year when Dempster retires.

i don't think you can rookie list a DFA. i think you can only get to the rookie list via the rookie draft (unless you are one of those international category B? rookies).

I expect you are right. So it would have to be pick 10 in the rookie draft which assume we still hold if he lasted that long.