Further list changes

[SemperFidelis]

Is Nathan Brown similar to Tom Lee in some ways?
Some filth fans were keen on him staying, others said he was one-dimensional and showed some promise, but never really delivered.
He seems to be their version of Lee.
He's 3 years older than Lee.
Tom had 2 shoulder recos, and then ankle surgery, and struggled a bit.
Not sure if Brown will make it.
Brown played well on Rooey in 2010, but only after Maxy taught him all the tricks. 6 years ago is a long time.
Is this another Capuano moment?
No, I aint citywest, just wondering if the club is correct

I think Brown is there when we need a tall strong defender for the gorillas.
I don't think he will play every game as some of the teams aren't that big in the forwards (e.g. Bulldogs)
Those other games we will have an extra running defender.

Brown is the guy who we hoped Delaney would be.

This. And I reckon he'll be better (than we hoped Delaney would be). Fantastic for Hugh to have him around to learn from.

[ace]

Is Nathan Brown similar to Tom Lee in some ways?
Some filth fans were keen on him staying, others said he was one-dimensional and showed some promise, but never really delivered.
He seems to be their version of Lee.
He's 3 years older than Lee.
Tom had 2 shoulder recos, and then ankle surgery, and struggled a bit.
Not sure if Brown will make it.
Brown played well on Rooey in 2010, but only after Maxy taught him all the tricks. 6 years ago is a long time.
Is this another Capuano moment?
No, I aint citywest, just wondering if the club is correct

I think Brown is there when we need a tall strong defender for the gorillas.
I don't think he will play every game as some of the teams aren't that big in the forwards (e.g. Bulldogs)
Those other games we will have an extra running defender.

Brown is the guy who we hoped Delaney would be.

This. And I reckon he'll be better (than we hoped Delaney would be). Fantastic for Hugh to have him around to learn from.

Hugh first needs to get his achilles right then learn to run faster and longer.
I would prefer that he learned that from Riewoldt.

[prwilkinson]

Thanks for the service. Thought Eli would have kept his spot.

[Bluthy]

Let's not get carried away just because they had similar hair styles...

Thomas was a star at AFL level from day 1, whereas Eli can barely get a touch at the highest level, doesn't kick goals and is behind 5 other small forwards on our list, two of which can't get a game themselves... A lot of super VFL players aren't good enough for AFL.

I hope he gets another chance somewhere, but I don't think we'll ever be be rueful for letting him go.

Did we really get a chance to see how Eli could have developed? If you write off his first year due to injury, he had two years where he was played predominately in the seconds- and did pretty well. I mean he was just 21. I find that strange when we've persisted with guys like Minch and Wright for a lot longer. I suspect his arm may not have healed properly.

http://www.saints.com.au/player-profile/eli-templeton

Despite limited exposure to senior football, the Tasmanian excelled at state league level, finishing fifth in Monday night’s J.J Liston Trophy to underline his class.

Templeton averaged over 26 disposals, five inside 50s and four tackles across 17 games in his third season at Linen House Centre.

He collected 30 or more disposals on seven occasions in 2016 to demonstrate his ball-winning ability, and he was named as a senior emergency on a handful of occasions in the second half of the season, without being able to force his way back into the team due to St Kilda’s improved midfield depth this year.

Richo: “Eli didn’t play as much senior footy as he would have expected or as we would have expected, but I think he’s had a positive year; he’s had a learning year; he’s really grown as a footballer. You don’t always get the opportunity to improve and grow in the AFL team and that’s been Eli’s year. His gone from being a low 20 possession at VFL level to a low 30 possession player. He’s improved his work in the contest. We love when Eli’s got the ball in his hands because he makes really good decisions and he executes well.

“It’s been a frustrating year for him, but it’s been a real positive for us that even though he’s been disappointed with non-selection, because people in his position have performed strongly and the team’s been going well, he didn’t drop his bundle at any stage. He continued to play really strong footy at VFL level, so he demonstrated his character.

“He needs to go another level with his endurance and he needs to get stronger and put on a bit more size in the gym – that will enable him to be able to cope with the bigger bodies in there at AFL level. He’s ok in that area but he doesn’t want to be ok and we don’t want him to be just ok in that area. That’s probably his greatest opportunity for growth."

So a young guy who has really only had two years of footy and is developing well gets cut? Something weird there. Although its instructive Richo talks about him not being able to compete with the big bodies of AFL. Big hard bodies - Richo loves them. He's either in the closet, or is becoming obsessed that you need big guys to win games of footy. Skill....eh thats not so important.

[borderbarry]

dragit, most of the players you have mentioned are players being developed, so the club wont be getting rid of them. Wright and Minch are both older and have been with us for a few years. They may have to be considered.

[ace]

Just saw the list changes at GWS.
They have traded out 9 players.
Only other, Patfull retiring.
They only traded in one player - Delidio
NO DELISTINGS

Freeing up 9 places allows them to activate 9 picks
Picks 2, 15, 37, 39, 45, 52, 55, 59, 60
GWS have to reduce their list numbers but may do early so won't be drafting 9 players.
Instead using points from multiple picks as they queue jump to grab their academy players.

Some on here think GWS used pick 15 on Delidio, they did not.
Instead they used Geelong's 2017 first rounder plus GWS own 2017 third rounder.
They already have banked 2 off 2017 second rounders (St Kilda and Collingwood).

[WellardSaint]

Is Nathan Brown similar to Tom Lee in some ways?
Some filth fans were keen on him staying, others said he was one-dimensional and showed some promise, but never really delivered.
He seems to be their version of Lee.
He's 3 years older than Lee.
Tom had 2 shoulder recos, and then ankle surgery, and struggled a bit.
Not sure if Brown will make it.
Brown played well on Rooey in 2010, but only after Maxy taught him all the tricks. 6 years ago is a long time.
Is this another Capuano moment?
No, I aint citywest, just wondering if the club is correct

I think Brown is there when we need a tall strong defender for the gorillas.
I don't think he will play every game as some of the teams aren't that big in the forwards (e.g. Bulldogs)
Those other games we will have an extra running defender.

Very good answer
Horses for courses- like when they got Holmes in for Tiges game.
I see Brownie playing in Perth, taking Darling and Kennedy; and against Crows; and Dees for Hogan.
He may play against Dogs for Tom Boyd and that other young bloke who kicked that banana ( Zac or Xavier?)

[dragit]

Just saw the list changes at GWS.
They have traded out 9 players.
Only other, Patfull retiring.
They only traded in one player - Delidio
NO DELISTINGS

Freeing up 9 places allows them to activate 9 picks
Picks 2, 15, 37, 39, 45, 52, 55, 59, 60
GWS have to reduce their list numbers but may do early so won't be drafting 9 players.
Instead using points from multiple picks as they queue jump to grab their academy players.

Some on here think GWS used pick 15 on Delidio, they did not.
Instead they used Geelong's 2017 first rounder plus GWS own 2017 third rounder.
They already have banked 2 off 2017 second rounders (St Kilda and Collingwood).

They need to reduce to 40 for next year, so now have 7 free spots… I can't see them using many picks past 45, so they might upgrade a rookie or add a DFA

[dragit]

Big hard bodies - Richo loves them. He's either in the closet, or is becoming obsessed that you need big guys to win games of footy. Skill....eh thats not so important.

Yeah that makes sense, our coach is playing out his homosexual fantasies by picking bigger players to play senior AFL football.

Except for the fact that Lonie & Sinclair played 35 games between them last year school boy sized and then Gresham this year with his hulking 75Kg frame.

[stkfc1]

I guess by the quality we've had to let go it shows that we finally have some decent depth. Murdoch and Eli would have been certainties to stay a few years ago but we're in a much best place now. Like most I thought Eli would be worth persisting with but we don't see the day to day stuff so obviously there were things he wasn't doing or unable to achieve to the coaches satisfaction. Hopefully he gets another shot somewhere else. Terrible timing with his arm but life happens. Feel for the kid.

[Bernard Shakey]

Let's not get carried away just because they had similar hair styles...

Thomas was a star at AFL level from day 1, whereas Eli can barely get a touch at the highest level, doesn't kick goals and is behind 5 other small forwards on our list, two of which can't get a game themselves... A lot of super VFL players aren't good enough for AFL.

I hope he gets another chance somewhere, but I don't think we'll ever be be rueful for letting him go.

Did we really get a chance to see how Eli could have developed? If you write off his first year due to injury, he had two years where he was played predominately in the seconds- and did pretty well. I mean he was just 21. I find that strange when we've persisted with guys like Minch and Wright for a lot longer. I suspect his arm may not have healed properly.

http://www.saints.com.au/player-profile/eli-templeton

Despite limited exposure to senior football, the Tasmanian excelled at state league level, finishing fifth in Monday night’s J.J Liston Trophy to underline his class.

Templeton averaged over 26 disposals, five inside 50s and four tackles across 17 games in his third season at Linen House Centre.

He collected 30 or more disposals on seven occasions in 2016 to demonstrate his ball-winning ability, and he was named as a senior emergency on a handful of occasions in the second half of the season, without being able to force his way back into the team due to St Kilda’s improved midfield depth this year.

Richo: “Eli didn’t play as much senior footy as he would have expected or as we would have expected, but I think he’s had a positive year; he’s had a learning year; he’s really grown as a footballer. You don’t always get the opportunity to improve and grow in the AFL team and that’s been Eli’s year. His gone from being a low 20 possession at VFL level to a low 30 possession player. He’s improved his work in the contest. We love when Eli’s got the ball in his hands because he makes really good decisions and he executes well.

“It’s been a frustrating year for him, but it’s been a real positive for us that even though he’s been disappointed with non-selection, because people in his position have performed strongly and the team’s been going well, he didn’t drop his bundle at any stage. He continued to play really strong footy at VFL level, so he demonstrated his character.

“He needs to go another level with his endurance and he needs to get stronger and put on a bit more size in the gym – that will enable him to be able to cope with the bigger bodies in there at AFL level. He’s ok in that area but he doesn’t want to be ok and we don’t want him to be just ok in that area. That’s probably his greatest opportunity for growth."

So a young guy who has really only had two years of footy and is developing well gets cut? Something weird there. Although its instructive Richo talks about him not being able to compete with the big bodies of AFL. Big hard bodies - Richo loves them. He's either in the closet, or is becoming obsessed that you need big guys to win games of footy. Skill....eh thats not so important.

Playing for himself and not the team would be his biggest problem.
I would have been surprised if he was not delisted.

[Linton Lodger]

Gee, Templeton, Lee & Murdoch are stiff, particularly Eli.

Brisbane or Carlton, and perhaps a few others, could do a lot worse then pick them up.

We must really hold Holmes in high regard.

[WellardSaint]

Gee, Templeton, Lee & Murdoch are stiff, particularly Eli.

Brisbane or Carlton, and perhaps a few others, could do a lot worse then pick them up.

We must really hold Holmes in high regard.

Can the club pick up Eli again in another draft if nobody else takes him?
I understand we had to cut up to 4?
I don't know the draft rules

[dragit]

Gee, Templeton, Lee & Murdoch are stiff, particularly Eli.

Brisbane or Carlton, and perhaps a few others, could do a lot worse then pick them up.

We must really hold Holmes in high regard.

Can the club pick up Eli again in another draft if nobody else takes him?
I understand we had to cut up to 4?
I don't know the draft rules

We wouldn't bother unless it was a rookie spot, we are delisting him to make room for fresh players & Holmes on the main list.

[WellardSaint]

Gee, Templeton, Lee & Murdoch are stiff, particularly Eli.

Brisbane or Carlton, and perhaps a few others, could do a lot worse then pick them up.

We must really hold Holmes in high regard.

Can the club pick up Eli again in another draft if nobody else takes him?
I understand we had to cut up to 4?
I don't know the draft rules

We wouldn't bother unless it was a rookie spot, we are delisting him to make room for fresh players & Holmes on the main list.

He was selected as a rookie at pick No. 3 in the 2014 Rookie Draft, is the club allowed to redraft him as a rookie?
But I think he's gone for good, as Bains thanked all of the 4 and wished them well. Ain't no coming back.
Too many ahead of him, and AR said it is essential to gain a tank and muscle.

[prwilkinson]

Someone around the footy club needs to tell Paddy McCartin to take the number 4 jumper since it's just been vacated. Would love to see a big power forward playing out of the square in the old number 4. Pppppadddddddddyyyyyyyy....

[st.byron]

Playing for himself and not the team would be his biggest problem.
I would have been surprised if he was not delisted.

How do you know this Bernard? Is it a personal observation or something you've heard?

I'd like to know why he was cut. He seems to have a lot of potential and is still young. Why did they make the call to let him go?

Perhaps this from Richo is at the heart of it. "“He needs to go another level with his endurance and he needs to get stronger and put on a bit more size in the gym – that will enable him to be able to cope with the bigger bodies in there at AFL level."

If so surely they are things that can be developed. And he was cutting it up in the seconds. Maybe there is something personal there as Bernard has suggested.

[saintsRrising]

Gee, Templeton, Lee & Murdoch are stiff, particularly Eli.

Brisbane or Carlton, and perhaps a few others, could do a lot worse then pick them up.

We must really hold Holmes in high regard.

Can the club pick up Eli again in another draft if nobody else takes him?
I understand we had to cut up to 4?
I don't know the draft rules

We could have cut less, but why would we?

taking 3 picks in the draft is good, and getting in Steele, Stevens and Brown is also good.

Steele better than Templeton
Stevens better than Murdoch
Brown better than Lee

So the only real question is pick 61. Personally with good depth at the club now I think punting on youth is better that giving one of those delisted another year.
However Holmes would seem very fortunate, but is perhaps just viewed asa cheap emergency ruck.

[Bernard Shakey]

Playing for himself and not the team would be his biggest problem.
I would have been surprised if he was not delisted.

How do you know this Bernard? Is it a personal observation or something you've heard?

I'd like to know why he was cut. He seems to have a lot of potential and is still young. Why did they make the call to let him go?

Perhaps this from Richo is at the heart of it. "“He needs to go another level with his endurance and he needs to get stronger and put on a bit more size in the gym – that will enable him to be able to cope with the bigger bodies in there at AFL level."

If so surely they are things that can be developed. And he was cutting it up in the seconds. Maybe there is something personal there as Bernard has suggested.

Only from what I've seen and heard at Sandy.
In a final last year he could hardly walk and refused to come off until a third message ordering him off.
This year he's also ignored direction from the bench virtually every week.
You can see and hear a lot at VFL games!

[SaintPav]

Not even GOP.

The club has made the right call.

They can't keep everyone on the list.

[citywest]

Is Nathan Brown similar to Tom Lee in some ways?
Some filth fans were keen on him staying, others said he was one-dimensional and showed some promise, but never really delivered.
He seems to be their version of Lee.
He's 3 years older than Lee.
Tom had 2 shoulder recos, and then ankle surgery, and struggled a bit.
Not sure if Brown will make it.
Brown played well on Rooey in 2010, but only after Maxy taught him all the tricks. 6 years ago is a long time.
Is this another Capuano moment?
No, I aint citywest, just wondering if the club is correct

Thanks for the compliment WellardSaint.

[loris]

Playing for himself and not the team would be his biggest problem.
I would have been surprised if he was not delisted.

How do you know this Bernard? Is it a personal observation or something you've heard?

I'd like to know why he was cut. He seems to have a lot of potential and is still young. Why did they make the call to let him go?

Perhaps this from Richo is at the heart of it. "“He needs to go another level with his endurance and he needs to get stronger and put on a bit more size in the gym – that will enable him to be able to cope with the bigger bodies in there at AFL level."

If so surely they are things that can be developed. And he was cutting it up in the seconds. Maybe there is something personal there as Bernard has suggested.

Only from what I've seen and heard at Sandy.
In a final last year he could hardly walk and refused to come off until a third message ordering him off.
This year he's also ignored direction from the bench virtually every week.
You can see and hear a lot at VFL games!

StB, one of the posters I always take note of his comments on Saints players playing for Sandi is, BS.
Reasons being:

BS goes to the Sandi games, he doesn't just see the occasional game on telly and make generalised statements from an odd viewing.

BS doesn't usually 'pot' players, any criticism he gives is usually qualified by an objective reason, not some emotive response.

BS often comments on the bigger picture at Sandi and the contradictions inherent in playing in a team for Sandi v playing as an individual to get promoted to the Saints senior team.

BS over the past few seasons has been correct more times than not when stating players were close to being selected in the seniors.

BS isn't one espousing 'X' should be getting a game now; Richo doesn't like 'X', just because they like the cut of 'X's jib, or they don't like the style/age/size of the player in the seniors who is keeping 'X' out of the team.

Occasionally I thought BS was the ghost writer for Paul Hudson! At times, BS would give an opinion on Saints players after a match for Sandi on SS, then a few days later, on the Saints.com site, Paul Hudson would be expressing the exact same sentiments.

StB they are some of the reasons I take on board what what BS says - he seems to be more in tune with the reality of what, who & why at Sandi IMHO. Also I remember another poster(whose name escapes me at the mo', it may have been Big Mart) once stating that Eli needed to play 'a role less for himself and more the role his coaches and Sandi required of him'.

Of all the delisted players, Eli is the one I wish wasn't being delisted.

Oh, well maybe Essendope will pick him up and he can then live out his boyhood dreams? I can still recall the first interview after his first game for the Saints. He was asked about his dreadlocks. He said he had supported Essendon and that Dyson Heppel was his favourite player and that was why he grew his hair in that fashion.

[Bluthy]

This is only your scuttlebutt obviously BS, but that would make sense of this decision a lot more for me. Richo said of Eli "We think we've found one here" - and then he's cut in two years despite finishing high in the VFL b&f? It would make sense why he didn't get much seniors time either.

Maybe those early games where he was kicking goals and lots of praise went to his head. I'm sure all players at some stage have disobeyed directions thinking they know better, but if you are doing it consistently then that's a huge issue. You have to obey coaches instructions - things like rotations are their call, not yours - they have the data you don't. If you can't be trusted to do that, then you lose the trust of the coaches. It can also be a cancer on coaches authority if word gets round someone is going rogue.

If its true, I hope Eli learns a big lesson from this. If he gets picked up someone else, hopefully he will tow the line this time. Its one thing to be cocky - all good footy players need that. It's another to be openly dismissive of your instructions. Teams win flags, not individuals.

[dragit]

This is only your scuttlebutt obviously BS, but that would make sense of this decision a lot more for me. Richo said of Eli "We think we've found one here" - and then he's cut in two years despite finishing high in the VFL b&f? It would make sense why he didn't get much seniors time either.

Maybe those early games where he was kicking goals and lots of praise went to his head. I'm sure all players at some stage have disobeyed directions thinking they know better, but if you are doing it consistently then that's a huge issue. You have to obey coaches instructions - things like rotations are their call, not yours - they have the data you don't. If you can't be trusted to do that, then you lose the trust of the coaches. It can also be a cancer on coaches authority if word gets round someone is going rogue.

If its true, I hope Eli learns a big lesson from this. If he gets picked up someone else, hopefully he will tow the line this time. Its one thing to be cocky - all good footy players need that. It's another to be openly dismissive of your instructions. Teams win flags, not individuals.

Don't be stupid bluthy, this is all about richos closet homosexual fantasies of big strong men colliding with one another in order to play out his own twisted personal agenda.

[WellardSaint]

The Tigers are very keen on Tom Lee
and have been talking to him recently, according to their football manager, Darcy Coffey.

"I'll be speaking to him about coming back and playing footy for us next year; his head's still spinning a bit".

The Tigers, eh ?

Claremont Tigers in the WAFL.
It's where Lee played a few games when he was younger.

nearly had you there...

copyright disclosure: quote taken from The Weekend West (Perth's weekend fish wrapper), reporter- Dale Miller