WTF Hawks..!

[Wayne42]

Hawthorn will have the last 3 picks in the draft, players who may turn out to be list cloggers, or, had they not been drafted by Hawthorn, those 3 draftees may
have been the first 3 picks in the Rookie draft.

A draft where you can still find some gems. Gems that were overlooked in the Main Draft.

Happens every year.

[saintsRrising]

Hawthorn will have the last 3 picks in the draft, players who may turn out to be list cloggers, or, had they not been drafted by Hawthorn, those 3 draftees may
have been the first 3 picks in the Rookie draft.

A draft where you can still find some gems. Gems that were overlooked in the Main Draft.

Happens every year.

They may also get Jarman as a Father son. Jarman was tipped not to go early anyway, and so with the 190 odd point FS discount they will be able to use pick 88 on him and if someone only bids late it will not cost any points. If they bif earlier they will have to decide if they want to go into deficit in 2017 for him.

[Con Gorozidis]

Remember when NDS and Goddard left and some on here were saying we were a rubbish club because 'Hawthorn would never treat their champions like this'.

Well they have just done the exact same thing with Mitchell (NDS) and Lewis (Goddard).

[sunsaint]

Remember when NDS and Goddard left and some on here were saying we were a rubbish club because 'Hawthorn would never treat their champions like this'.

Well they have just done the exact same thing with Mitchell (NDS) and Lewis (Goddard).

cmon Con
Mitchell was always going to WC - it was just brought forward a year
and not sure the Lewis move was all about a bigger pay cheque

[Sainter_Dad]

Remember when NDS and Goddard left and some on here were saying we were a rubbish club because 'Hawthorn would never treat their champions like this'.

Well they have just done the exact same thing with Mitchell (NDS) and Lewis (Goddard).

I feel that we treated NDS and Goddards departure much better than the Hawks with Mitch and Lewis - at least we were getting a big pay day for their release. I know lots of Hawks supporters who are disillusioned with the club over the treatment of the B&F and 2nd B&F winners!

[saintbrat]

Free Kick Hawthorn

too many trade rules and the AFL ' forgot' one in relation to the Hawks
should not have been able to use a second future draft pick

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/a ... 09cf81669e

[Johnny Member]

I don't know why everyone is so cocky about Hawks bottoming out. They have the best coach of the modern era and even possibly the best coach ever. Clarkson has a brilliant system and is always evolving it to stay ahead of the pack despite all their IP leaking out every year in coaches and players. He is the master and unpacking the oppo and stopping their strengths. Even last year with a lot of things going wrong and not playing great footy for big sections of the year they were one kick away from a prelim where they would have got to play their bunnies the Swans.

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't say I'm 'cocky' about them bottoming out. I just think it's inevitable. It's the way the system works. As I said in previous posts, everyone 'bottoms out'. AFL assistance and/or drafting is what determines how deep that bottom out is, and how long it lasts for.

Alastair Clarkson is a genius football coach - but a flawed individual. He's violent and can't control his temper. He's not overly popular. But he's winning, so he doesn't get questioned. Hawthorn have had an incredible group of leaders on-field for nearly a decade, and they've also teamed Fagan up with Clarkson to manage his temperament. It's been the perfect blend.

But it's over. Fagan has gone, as has half the freak on-field leadership group, with another chunk of them to leave next year.

The group has changed, and it simply won't be as good.


Clarkson, no doubt, built an incredible system and evolved it well enough to stay ahead of the pack - but as we saw this year, when his cattle wasn't at the upper elite level for the first time in 7-8 years, it wasn't good enough.

Hawthorn and their fans may scream 'but we were a kick off a prelim!!' - but that mentality is fraught with danger. You need to look at reality and the bigger picture, not just the scoreboard when assessing where you're really at. And the reality is that were only 2 games off 7th spot, and didn't win a final. They won 5 games under a goal.

Clarkson may be a great coach, and I think he is - but without the cattle he's had over the last decade, his coaching ability won't be enough. He may have the best system in the world, but without Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis etc. etc. to carry it out so effectively, things might be tough for him.

They have mortgaged themselves to the hilt to get JOM - its unbelievably brave. But there is a reason they did. IF they can get him up and running he is one of the "three players in one" types like Danger, Judd and Ablett. Brutes inside to win ball, speed, strength and smarts to break free of packs and then classy delivery to hit up targets. Suddenly its like having 20 men on the field.

I know he's seen as a huge talent, and he may well be. But in 44 games next to Gary Ablett, he averaged 21 disposals a game. Good numbers, but it still remains a possibility he's not the world's best.

What will be hilarious is if Hawks are up there again and JOM is playing really well, will be everyone scratching there head and saying "Gee they have been lucky and getting lucky umpire decisions and just got JOM at the right time with GC going s*** and boy they were lucky - so much luck"

What an odd thing to say?

Firstly, what does 'up there' mean? Are we saying playing finals is success now?

Are you saying that finishing 6-8th is successful? Are you saying that if they don't win the flag, but win a final they've been a success?

Remember, they'll lose Burgoyne, Hodge and Gibson next year too, and don't have any picks in this year's or next year's draft. So anything they've done this pre-season, won't be really felt until 2-3 years time.


And in terms of luck, I think people would only talk about luck if they felt luck had played a part. And until it happens, we can't predict it. Strange thing to say.

They are being incredibly bold - its fly high or crash. And even if JOM is a bust, they will back themselves to develop internally and their brilliant system to hold up despite a lower calibre of average player - soldier in, soldier out.

How did these 'soldiers' go this year?

Remember, Mitchell and Lewis were 1 and 2 in their B&F - but these other soldiers you talk of couldn't make a difference. Gunston kicked 50 goals and Rioli 47 - so I think you may be overrating their 'brilliant system'. If the system of internally developing young guys was really good, surely with their 'top 6' standing up as they did, they'd have been able to step up?

There's very little evidence to suggest they have a good internal system for developing players.

I mean, why else would you need to poach key players every year if you were developing your own?

...also, if they do have a s*** year this year and then head further into the inevitable 'rebuild' as Gibson, Hodge and Burgoyne retire - they'll have missed an entire draft to rebuild from.


We'll see two things from this, as I said above:

1) How relevant a good coach is without superstar players
2) How good this mythical 'Hawthorn system' is when key people aren't there. Systems and 'culture' are a myth. It's fluking good people together, at the right time. When the people leave, the system and the 'culture' goes with them.

[saynta]

Hawks have hit the panic button but that is understandable. Roughie tragedy. Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson and Mitchell all at the end. Lewis struggling. They are facing the end of an era.

Which might just make next years first rounder very valuable!!!!

Yep. Starting to look that way.

[Playon]

They way I see it their net position is....

In:
Mitchell mk2
O'meara

Out:
Mitchell mk1
Lewis
Hill
2 x 1st rnd pick
2 x 2nd rnd pick
3rd rnd pick
4th rnd pick
Any illusion that they are somehow the masters of trade week.

They are left with a first pick of 88 in the draft.

Dont forget they will be required to take on 3 players thanks to the afl's forced rotation.

Which means from 88 onwards unless they trade out to improve it, So there goes some of there depth

[Sainternist]

About time Hawthorn supporters saw some lean times. You have to take your hat off to Clarko and his remarkable team from 2008 onwards though. It was an incredible era of the 21st century game.

[kosifantutti]

They way I see it their net position is....

In:
Mitchell mk2
O'meara

Out:
Mitchell mk1
Lewis
Hill
2 x 1st rnd pick
2 x 2nd rnd pick
3rd rnd pick
4th rnd pick
Any illusion that they are somehow the masters of trade week.

They are left with a first pick of 88 in the draft.

Dont forget they will be required to take on 3 players thanks to the afl's forced rotation.

Which means from 88 onwards unless they trade out to improve it, So there goes some of there depth

That was last year's draft. I think they have a second round pick this year.

[supersaints]

As I posted the thread on Ammet Bain's the Hawks are trying to get a new CEO who may get some control over Clarkson, some think he is loosing the plot
There is an extremely intersting article from the roar Inread recently claims Clarkson went over the west to pick Gerard Neeshams brain regarding his game plan he used successfully in th WAFL and tried to implement at the Dockers but it failed due to lack of talent ...here is copy and paste of some of it.

I can remember sitting alongside former Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett at a luncheon a few years go, discussing Clarkson. He pointed out a little-known fact that ahead of the 2008 season Clarkson flew to Perth several times to pick the brain of inaugural Fremantle coach Gerard Neesham.

Looking back now, Neesham’s coaching philosophy – borrowed from his second sporting love water polo, and based around a chip-and-draw style – is now commonplace across the AFL.

When Neesham tried to implement the style with the early Dockers squad he lacked players with the requisite skill base to regularly perform such a high-possession game under pressure.

Clarkson saw something in the Neesham philosophy and realised he had the players within his group to execute it. His belief culminated in a premiership in 2008.

[Playon]

They way I see it their net position is....

In:
Mitchell mk2
O'meara

Out:
Mitchell mk1
Lewis
Hill
2 x 1st rnd pick
2 x 2nd rnd pick
3rd rnd pick
4th rnd pick
Any illusion that they are somehow the masters of trade week.

They are left with a first pick of 88 in the draft.

Dont forget they will be required to take on 3 players thanks to the afl's forced rotation.

Which means from 88 onwards unless they trade out to improve it, So there goes some of there depth

That was last year's draft. I think they have a second round pick this year.

Sounds right now that you mention it, Its getting hard to remember what happened in that deal.

Still I hope they do well with their second rounder and its something like pick 19

[minneapolis]

I just watched it. Excellent. Reached for a tissue too!

[saintsRrising]

As I posted the thread on Ammet Bain's the Hawks are trying to get a new CEO who may get some control over Clarkson, some think he is loosing the plot
There is an extremely intersting article from the roar Inread recently claims Clarkson went over the west to pick Gerard Neeshams brain regarding his game plan he used successfully in th WAFL and tried to implement at the Dockers but it failed due to lack of talent ...here is copy and paste of some of it.

I can remember sitting alongside former Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett at a luncheon a few years go, discussing Clarkson. He pointed out a little-known fact that ahead of the 2008 season Clarkson flew to Perth several times to pick the brain of inaugural Fremantle coach Gerard Neesham.

Looking back now, Neesham’s coaching philosophy – borrowed from his second sporting love water polo, and based around a chip-and-draw style – is now commonplace across the AFL.

When Neesham tried to implement the style with the early Dockers squad he lacked players with the requisite skill base to regularly perform such a high-possession game under pressure.

Clarkson saw something in the Neesham philosophy and realised he had the players within his group to execute it. His belief culminated in a premiership in 2008.

Clarko was not the first. Roos and Lyon were both using what they learnt from Neesham.

Neesham also got Ric Charlseworth, the great Australian Hockey Coach, involved at Freo.

Being a hockey player myself when younger I was struck at the time to the lack of tactics in footy compared to hockey, soccer and yes water polo too. When Neesham came along I knew what he was upto as I was had played similar on the hockey field.

[Sainter_Dad]

It is highly likely that we have picked up a single digit draft pick for 2017, it is a pity ours will be a double digit pick!

[minneapolis]

O'Meara is currently not running, which means that knee of his has a long way to go. He won't be ripping it up in 2017. It may be a Nathan Freeman type year for him, building toward 2018. Go and look on the Hawks website and sift through their list. They cannot maintain their current position in the short term. They will slip back a few places in 2017. Mitchell will be good for them, Vickery will just fill a hole, while their two most prolific midfielders from this year are playing elsewhere. Remember, they've basically given up almost two whole draft periods for these three players with no guarantee of off-setting their losses from this year (Mitchell, Hill, Lewis). If they had maintained decent picks in the draft in 2016 & 2017, I would have said it's a win for them. However........

I have been saying it for ages. Vickery is just a finger in the proverbial Hawthorn dyke.

Just knew it. I could not understand how the Hawks could fall for this after watching the guy play for 5 years.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-12/t ... a-new-hawk