The Pelchen Legacy

[White Winmar]

Now that the trade period is over, I wanted to reflect on the so-called 'Pelchen Legacy'. What is myth and what is fact? I've never seen an individual divide opinion as much as the Pelican. His detractors describe him as an aloof control freak who always knows best. I've described him, from very limited knowledge as having all the charm of a suburban caravan park. His supporters, and there are not that many, will have you believe he's a genius. As always the truth lies somewhere in between.

When he left the saints, be in no doubt it was in a hail of acrimony, with no one sorry to see him go. Then again, his main opposition in his time at the saints was the excreble Scotty Watters, a man who was as popular as a foreskin at a bar mitzvah. Whoever gave the smurf the top job set our club back at least two, if not more, years. That's another story, though. So what has the pelican been up to since he left us in 2014?

Well, he is currently trying to set up his 'Star Academy', a recruitment consultancy for AFL recruiting departments. He proposes to have a talent manager for every state and territory who will report to the 18 clubs. They have similar set ups in the USA for the NFL, NSL, MLB and NBA. It's not an original idea, but one that has some merit. The problem, as I'm told by one recruiting manager is the Pelican himself. He's left three different clubs in acrimonious circumstances and there are some that simply will not deal with him because of past disagreements. Whether his alleged expertise can overcome this hurdle remains to be seen. Otherwise, he's provided some commentary on the draft and trading period. From what I've seen he's not a great media performer, so I hope the consultancy works out for him. As Dermott Brereton famously said after the pelican departed the saints, "He'll never get another job in the AFL again". So far, he's been right, although Brereton was defending his mate Watters and indulging in his usual St.Kilda bashing at the time.

So, is the pelican a genius, or a fraud, whose taken undue credit wherever he's been? The folks at Port Adelaide and Hawthorn certainly think it's mainly the latter, with the saints I know undecided, but leaning to the latter as well. Let's examine what he did at the saints between 2011 and 2014, although he had little or no involvement in the selections of 2014.
2011 -

ROSS

NEWNES

WEBSTER

LEVER

WILKES

BLAKE

Rookie draft selections: 12 Sam Dunnell 30 Cameron Shenton 48 Jordan Staley 65 Darren Minchington 79 Pass

Trades: Tommy Walsh traded to Sydney (in exchange for picks 35 and 68) and Tom Lynch traded to Adelaide in a deal also involving Richmond (in exchange for pick 37).

Terry Milera (Port Adelaide Magpies) and Ahmed Saad (Northern Bullants), as well as pick 25, in a trade with Greater Western Sydney (in exchange for pick 20).



2012 -
In: Tom Hickey (Gold Coast), Tom Lee (Claremont), Trent Dennis-Lane (Sydney Swans), draft selections 25, 26, 41, 44
Out: Brendon Goddard (Essendon), Jamie Cripps (West Coast); Sam Crocker, Brett Peake, Dean Polo (delisted); Daniel Archer (delisted rookie); draft selections 12, 37, 57

NATHAN WRIGHT

SPENCER WHITE

BRODIE MURDOCH

JOSH SAUNDERS

LEWIS PIERCE

SAM DUNELL

2013

BILLINGS

ACRES

DUNSTAN

CURREN

JOSH BRUCE

LUKE DELANEY

BILLY LONGER

SHANE SAVAGE

OUT
Free agency/traded: Nick Dal Santo (North Melbourne), Ben McEvoy (Hawthorn), picks No.25 and No.41 (both to the Brisbane Lions), No.28 (Greater Western Sydney) and No.77 (North Melbourne)
Retired/delisted: Jason Blake, Justin Koschitzke, Tom Ledger, Jay Lever, Stephen Milne, Jordan Staley

NAB AFL Draft picks: 3, 18, 19, 95

So there you gave it. An objective analysis of the Pelican's doings. Success rate? About 33%. Not great, but around the industry average. The Pelican, it would seem is a legend. In his own mind. Thoughts?

[Myron Gaines]

Tough gig being in his position with our cap rooted & GWS & GCS taking all the top talent. He did well considering IMO.

I think he's good in the role as an analyst but a poor communicator. He needs to be locked in a room working alone, crunching the numbers, analysing & strategising.

[Freebird]

I think you will find another 1st round draft pick went out in 2012 - 11 or 13?

[St Chris]

I get the impression that Pelchen was heavily involved with creating the plan we are following. The idea of maximising top 20 picks in multiple drafts to build your core, then importing complementary talent to support. We're still following that path now, and it looks like paying dividends in the near future.

You can always point out individual names of draftees to prove a list manager is a genius or a Muppet. But the overall blueprint is where Pelchen will take credit if this generation ever salutes for the Saints....

[ace]

A vast improvement over the previous 10 years.
The best pick he had was officially 3 but realistically 5 when you realise that Jack Martin and Jesse Hogan had been taken out of that draft a year ahead of time via an under age mini draft.
So no easy pick 1s or 2s

[SaintPav]

Pelchen was not the recruiter but he did his job and established a useful framework that the club could plan around.

Our cap was stuffed and he restructured the list and salary cap.

We should have bottomed in 2012 and we held on one year too long.

Watters couldn't coach but at least he took us to the bottom quickly. Watters was a major flog and Pelchen saw that but he was involved in hiring him too.

Everyone is replaceable, particularly one dimensional egotistical flogs.

[SaintPav]

I get the impression that Pelchen was heavily involved with creating the plan we are following. The idea of maximising top 20 picks in multiple drafts to build your core, then importing complementary talent to support. We're still following that path now, and it looks like paying dividends in the near future.

You can always point out individual names of draftees to prove a list manager is a genius or a Muppet. But the overall blueprint is where Pelchen will take credit if this generation ever salutes for the Saints....

Pelican had nothing to do with last weeks master stroke.

We have a good list now but if this doesn't help us become a top 4 team over the next period, nothing will.

[saintsRrising]

So there you gave it. An objective analysis of the Pelican's doings. Success rate? About 33%. Not great, but around the industry average. The Pelican, it would seem is a legend. In his own mind. Thoughts?

I think you have made a mistake by looking at picks he picked, as we did not hire him to directly pick players.

He was brought in to change how we picked players, to put a strategy in place and to build a new recruiting department. This he did, and did well. Once that was done he was surplus, and in particular as it does appear that he had a somewhat abrasive personality. His talent was never in the individual picking of players, but in the process of picking players, and the process was something that just prior to Pelchen being hired that the Saints were very, very poor at. Arguabally we had become the AFL's worst at it.

In the early days too of his stay the recruiting department was only just being overhauled and rebuilt. ie The same people making poor draft/trade picks were still there.

The recruiting plan that was put in place is serving us very well. However is achievement is certainly not due to Pelchen alone, and it was certainly never meant to be.
The Sydney Opera House was finished long after its original architect was no longer involved.

Ditto with the St Kilda List Management Plan.

Pelchen was a right man, right time appointment. Our recruiting process needed to be brought into the modern age.

But of course others were involved. Bains started just prior and was originally meant to look after contracts and the like. But soon proved that he had a flair for list managemet and then with trout joining later together with other recruiting staff that plan could and has been executed well.

So if you wish to rate Pelchen do not do it on the basis of picks that came to us then (as it most likely did not directly pick them), but rather assess him on the basis of whether you believe our current List Management Strategy has been a sound one. I for one believe it is serving us well.

[White Winmar]

His legend lives, driven mainly by himself. Our current list management is due to the work of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains and the fact we now have four other professional, full time recruiters. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people convince others of their brilliance, even when the emperor has no clothes on. Look at our recruiting and list management since he left. It has been amongst the best in the league, with this year being another outstanding effort. Nothing to do with Pelchen or his "legacy". Even the famous spreadsheet wasn't his doing, although he took the credit. Look again at what I posted. His successes and failures(the majority btw) are plainly there to see. An arch self promoter. Our current sound list management is in place in spite of him, not because of him. Talk to the power and Hawks. The prosecution rests.

[Jacks Back]

Now that the trade period is over, I wanted to reflect on the so-called 'Pelchen Legacy'. What is myth and what is fact?

The Pelchen Legacy - Sounds like a good title for a follow up movie to:

[SaintPav]

His legend lives, driven mainly by himself. Our current list management is due to the work of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains and the fact we now have four other professional, full time recruiters. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people convince others of their brilliance, even when the emperor has no clothes on. Look at our recruiting and list management since he left. It has been amongst the best in the league, with this year being another outstanding effort. Nothing to do with Pelchen or his "legacy". Even the famous spreadsheet wasn't his doing, although he took the credit. Look again at what I posted. His successes and failures(the majority btw) are plainly there to see. An arch self promoter. Our current sound list management is in place in spite of him, not because of him. Talk to the power and Hawks. The prosecution rests.

Who developed the spreadsheet?

[Jacks Back]

His legend lives, driven mainly by himself. Our current list management is due to the work of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains and the fact we now have four other professional, full time recruiters. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people convince others of their brilliance, even when the emperor has no clothes on. Look at our recruiting and list management since he left. It has been amongst the best in the league, with this year being another outstanding effort. Nothing to do with Pelchen or his "legacy". Even the famous spreadsheet wasn't his doing, although he took the credit. Look again at what I posted. His successes and failures(the majority btw) are plainly there to see. An arch self promoter. Our current sound list management is in place in spite of him, not because of him. Talk to the power and Hawks. The prosecution rests.

Who developed the spreadsheet?

He Excelled at it.

[skeptic]

I struggle with this type of topic because whilst I'm one of the smaller minority that thinks he was doing a pretty decent job... it's hard without more details. It's not exactly clear to me where it starts and stops. What exactly can he take credit/responsibility for?

You look at the OP's initial numbers and I think they're favourable...

2011: We got Newness, Ross, Webster and Minch - 4 long term players from a draft including one that will be arguably one of the best is a great return
+ I think Wilkes, Dunnel and Shenton are respectable misses and even though Milera/Saad was ultimately a miss, getting them for decreasing a draft pick value by 5 places was an amazing return.
Walsh was no big loss and Lynch wanted out.

2012:
Wright is definitively in the team, Pierce seems a likely type.
Murdoch was a reasonable miss whereas neither White not Saunders were more than a flash in the pan

Hickey's inclusion nearly makes this recruitment period a big win on its own. TDL was a miss but we've got value out of him as a club man... I guess it's Tom Lee that's the difference between this being a pass and a huge win. He has his fans and detractors and is on his last legs.

Loss wise, both Goddard and Cripps walked and IMO couldn't have been kept so I don't think that's on Pelc.

2013:
From the outs... Ben McEvoy was no huge loss IMO and netted us a big return. Bruce was a big in... Savage a good 22. Delaney was a miss that cost us little and a decent GOP.
Longer is a wildcard (reportedly the coaches higher rated ruck). Curren offered some value as a rookie though he fizzled.
Meanwhile all of Billings, Acres and Dunstan look like great pick ups, even if we did miss Bont

We got btw 4-6 permanent best 22 players - a good return

Meanwhile we lost picks, Dal to free agency, which seemed in everyones best interests, and a McEvoy that is overrated IMO.

I think all of those are good wins

[ace]

His legend lives, driven mainly by himself. Our current list management is due to the work of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains and the fact we now have four other professional, full time recruiters. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people convince others of their brilliance, even when the emperor has no clothes on. Look at our recruiting and list management since he left. It has been amongst the best in the league, with this year being another outstanding effort. Nothing to do with Pelchen or his "legacy". Even the famous spreadsheet wasn't his doing, although he took the credit. Look again at what I posted. His successes and failures(the majority btw) are plainly there to see. An arch self promoter. Our current sound list management is in place in spite of him, not because of him. Talk to the power and Hawks. The prosecution rests.

Who developed the spreadsheet?

Lotus 1-2-3

Well, actually it was VisiCalc but whoever used that.

[desertsaint]

always open to conjecture. but whether due to him or simply one of many involved - he left us in far better shape than when he arrived. so to me it's a big pass!

[samoht]

RL helped us bottom out, ultimately - with the recycled players that lasted 5 minutes.
Credit where it's due.
Pelchen and co just happened to recruit some keepers, that's all - helped by our RL induced dive to the bottom.

RL's shortsightedness/ incompetence has helped us in the longer term.

[felix]

His legend lives, driven mainly by himself. Our current list management is due to the work of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains and the fact we now have four other professional, full time recruiters. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people convince others of their brilliance, even when the emperor has no clothes on. Look at our recruiting and list management since he left. It has been amongst the best in the league, with this year being another outstanding effort. Nothing to do with Pelchen or his "legacy". Even the famous spreadsheet wasn't his doing, although he took the credit. Look again at what I posted. His successes and failures(the majority btw) are plainly there to see. An arch self promoter. Our current sound list management is in place in spite of him, not because of him. Talk to the power and Hawks. The prosecution rests.

So this thread again is about lining him up for a whack. Your bias toward him is clear. Im sure he offended you at some stage and you will never forget it. Hold a grudge do we.?

[Vazelos]

I know Chris Pelchen on a casual basis through mutual friends and is an approachable man and always accomodating over a coffee. He offered the strategy for our 2018-20 premiership window and should be respected for that. Once the strategy was in its implementation the club realised they didn't need him anymore as others could perform the execution of the plan hence his position not being renewed. He invokes very different opinions of his value that's for sure.

[samoht]

Pelchen's arrival signalled an about-turn and separation from the shortsighted recruiting that failed us so miserably.
It could have been anyone else - but he epitomised the longer term/sensible approach and was associated with its success, so if nothing else, it was a strong statement that needed to be made, to rid the bad taste out of our metaphorical mouth - and to clearly demonstrate that our recruiting strategy was back on track.

[White Winmar]

His legend lives, driven mainly by himself. Our current list management is due to the work of Tony Elshaug and Ameet Bains and the fact we now have four other professional, full time recruiters. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some people convince others of their brilliance, even when the emperor has no clothes on. Look at our recruiting and list management since he left. It has been amongst the best in the league, with this year being another outstanding effort. Nothing to do with Pelchen or his "legacy". Even the famous spreadsheet wasn't his doing, although he took the credit. Look again at what I posted. His successes and failures(the majority btw) are plainly there to see. An arch self promoter. Our current sound list management is in place in spite of him, not because of him. Talk to the power and Hawks. The prosecution rests.

So this thread again is about lining him up for a whack. Your bias toward him is clear. Im sure he offended you at some stage and you will never forget it. Hold a grudge do we.?

Not at all. I have limited knowledge of him. He's not bad at what he does, but he's no guru. Do you think the people at Port and Hawthorn also hold grudges against him? He didn't ever offend me personally and I moved on when he arrived. I'm just calling it as I see it. A man I admire and respect in AR doesn't think much of him either, not that he'd say so publicly. There were no tears shed by the recruiting team either, when he moved on. Interesting he hasn't found another job in more than two years since he "left". His reputation precedes him. I'm not whacking him, but some people on here seem to think he's the mastermind behind our rebuild. The facts suggest he's not, and that Ameet and the recruiting team deserve far more credit. I tried to demonstrate the facts, Felix. It seems you're the one who loves giving out the odd whack.

[Toy Saint]

Pelchan and Grant Thomas are two who I believe have helped shape our football club, and yet for whatever reason their contribution is not fully appreciated by our fans.

Sadly the club was about as organised as a bag full of loose arseholes when Grant Thomas came to the rescue. He helped build a team and a culture. The neuclues of that team went very close to achieving the holy grail.

One part we never seemed to get quite right was the development of a strategic plan to actually build a list. Enter Chris Pelchan with his 'outside the box' 'Moneyball' spreadsheet theories. Both Port Adelaide and Hawthorn recognise Pelchan for creating the premership lists. Pelchan developed a strategy for St Kilda, and from what I can see we are folowing that plan - and it feels like it's working.

The football industry is comprised of numerous former players, many with ego's larger than their brains (the Demetriou syndrom) it really is an old boys club. Blokes like Pelchan who are not part of the 'club' and who think differently are generally not welcome in the industry.

[White Winmar]

Port Adelaide and Hawthorn are not fans. How does history get rewritten like this? Ask Gary Buckenara, Graham Wright and Dermie about Pelchen. Agreed, GT and Butterssssss saved our club and gave us back some respect. Pelchen did his bit, but as with everywhere else he's been, he's being given credit he doesn't deserve. As I've said before, if he was as good as he makes out, he wouldn't have been effectively unemployed for two years. Give Ameet and trout the credit they deserve.

[HarryM]

Port Adelaide and Hawthorn are not fans. How does history get rewritten like this? Ask Gary Buckenara, Graham Wright and Dermie about Pelchen. Agreed, GT and Butterssssss saved our club and gave us back some respect. Pelchen did his bit, but as with everywhere else he's been, he's being given credit he doesn't deserve. As I've said before, if he was as good as he makes out, he wouldn't have been effectively unemployed for two years. Give Ameet and trout the credit they deserve.

For someone who says he has limited knowledge of him you sure like putting the boots in.

Incidentally - if there was a contest for brain cells then Chris would win hands down over good old trout.

[Linton Lodger]

I think that record speaks for itself, very impressive. 2012 was a bit of a miss, but we still have 2 of those (Murdoch & Pierce) that could be future contributors. He certainly did supremely well in 2011 & 2013.

So does anyone know why there was friction between Pelchen & Watters, Pelchen & the club?

[Con Gorozidis]

I think enough time has passed that people should now feel free to spill the beans on the whole Watters Pelchen period. Lots of hints and winks and inferences but not much actual descriptions or facts about what was going on.
While I certainly value WW as a terrific poster I guess if one good thing came from Pelchen it was a more disciplined and rigorous approach to recruiting. We are now very well resourced in this area and we seem to have a methodology and a clinical system. This might have happened anyway as the whole industry changed but maybe we would have been a bit slower to change.
Remember the old days when recruitment was all a bit of a magical mystery tour based on gut feel and having some 'smokie' hidden away. So I think maybe Pelchen did modernise our recruiting system. He may be a pain in the ass but we are miles ahead of some of our rivals.

Admittedly recruiting has been made much easier with how well the AFL has organised the under 18 comps.