Jaxons come on down

[Con Gorozidis]

So pleasing how we handled draft period. Just an example of how success breeds success. Because we had a good year in 2016 (relative to expectations) we didnt need to panic and sat back and looked at the long term. This enabled us to capitalise on and exploit the Hawks situation for our long term advantage.

Just speculating but if we had finished bottom 4 again we may have had a different mentality and been panicked in to bringing in someone like Rocky or Hartlett or some other older player with pick 10 hoping for a short term boost.

Instead we sat back and played it cool and calm.

[ace]

Next year we have our 1st rounder and Hawthorn's 1st rounder
Our 3rd rounder
Our 4th rounder and North's 4th rounder
Our 6th rounder

We have advanced our 2nd rounder into a 1st round pick
and our 5th rounder into a 4th round pick

[dragit]

[Wigsy]

Just been looking at the AFL trade tracker.
They have the Koby Stevens deal now showing as deal 39 lodged at 1.58PM.
The last deal lodged before 2:00PM dealine.
One minute later would have been fine, two minutes later the deal gets rejected.

The AFL indicative draft order still can't sort out Carlton's involvement in the O'Meara deal they show:
Hawthorn receiving and keeping GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton.
Gold Coast receiving a 2017 2nd rounder from Hawthorn. It can not be Hawthorn's 2nd rounder as that would be illegal. Hawthorn had already traded their 2017 1st rounder to St Kilda.
It can not be Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder because Carlton had already traded that to Geelong along with Zach Tuohy in return for Billie Smedts and Geelong's 2017 1st rounder.

The 2017 2nd rounder received by Gold Coast from Hawthorn has to be GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton and via Hawthorn.
Oh and Hawthorn ends up with no-one else's 2017 2nd rounder other than their own.

You can trade it out if you trade another in just as we were able to trade either of next year's first rounders.

[Rosco]

Just been looking at the AFL trade tracker.
They have the Koby Stevens deal now showing as deal 39 lodged at 1.58PM.
The last deal lodged before 2:00PM dealine.
One minute later would have been fine, two minutes later the deal gets rejected.

The AFL indicative draft order still can't sort out Carlton's involvement in the O'Meara deal they show:
Hawthorn receiving and keeping GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton.
Gold Coast receiving a 2017 2nd rounder from Hawthorn. It can not be Hawthorn's 2nd rounder as that would be illegal. Hawthorn had already traded their 2017 1st rounder to St Kilda.
It can not be Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder because Carlton had already traded that to Geelong along with Zach Tuohy in return for Billie Smedts and Geelong's 2017 1st rounder.

The 2017 2nd rounder received by Gold Coast from Hawthorn has to be GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton and via Hawthorn.
Oh and Hawthorn ends up with no-one else's 2017 2nd rounder other than their own.

You can trade it out if you trade another in just as we were able to trade either of next year's first rounders.

i've noticed this too, ace.

looks like hawthorn was able to trade 2017 1st & 2nd rounder on the basis that they have kept a 2nd rounder (originally belonging to GWS and received via carlton).

this doesn't not appear to have been permitted by the rules as written.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/i ... raft-order
Clubs may trade future draft selections. Clubs must:
• Only trade selections from the following year's draft
• Make at least two first-round selections in each four-year period. If they don't, they will face restrictions from trading any further first-round draft picks
If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds.

so you should be able to trade other picks you get in, but you have to keep your own (i.e. hawthorn could have on-traded the GWS 2nd round pick to GCS but not their own 2nd round pick as they had already traded their 1st round pick to us).

[dragit]

Let's be honest the AFL don't have any real rules or genuine formulas...

The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z

Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...

The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.

[WellardSaint]

Let's be honest the AFL don't have any real rules or genuine formulas...

The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z

Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...

The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.

[ace]

Just been looking at the AFL trade tracker.
They have the Koby Stevens deal now showing as deal 39 lodged at 1.58PM.
The last deal lodged before 2:00PM dealine.
One minute later would have been fine, two minutes later the deal gets rejected.

The AFL indicative draft order still can't sort out Carlton's involvement in the O'Meara deal they show:
Hawthorn receiving and keeping GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton.
Gold Coast receiving a 2017 2nd rounder from Hawthorn. It can not be Hawthorn's 2nd rounder as that would be illegal. Hawthorn had already traded their 2017 1st rounder to St Kilda.
It can not be Carlton's 2017 2nd rounder because Carlton had already traded that to Geelong along with Zach Tuohy in return for Billie Smedts and Geelong's 2017 1st rounder.

The 2017 2nd rounder received by Gold Coast from Hawthorn has to be GWS 2017 2nd rounder via Carlton and via Hawthorn.
Oh and Hawthorn ends up with no-one else's 2017 2nd rounder other than their own.

You can trade it out if you trade another in just as we were able to trade either of next year's first rounders.

i've noticed this too, ace.

looks like hawthorn was able to trade 2017 1st & 2nd rounder on the basis that they have kept a 2nd rounder (originally belonging to GWS and received via carlton).

this doesn't not appear to have been permitted by the rules as written.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/i ... raft-order
Clubs may trade future draft selections. Clubs must:
• Only trade selections from the following year's draft
• Make at least two first-round selections in each four-year period. If they don't, they will face restrictions from trading any further first-round draft picks
If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds.

so you should be able to trade other picks you get in, but you have to keep your own (i.e. hawthorn could have on-traded the GWS 2nd round pick to GCS but not their own 2nd round pick as they had already traded their 1st round pick to us).

PRECISELY

[ace]

Let's be honest the AFL don't have any real rules or genuine formulas...

The free agency compensation "formula" is a prime example, if there was actually any formula it wouldn't be very hard to communicate and calculate... X years x Y dollars = z

Instead we have a dude sticking his finger in his mouth and then holding it in the breeze for a bit...

The guidelines around trading future picks will get ironed out when hawthorn & Geeling apply for priority picks in a few years.

I know that there are no rules while playing the game only guidelines to umpires that change from week to week but I thought they had rules for the trading of players.

[Jacks Back]

[desertsaint]

one of the best comedies out there - up there with planes, trains, automobiles, and groundhog day.

[Wombat15]

I thought this was quite relevant to our "STUNNING SWAP" reported by the Herald Sun

HAWTHORN secured picks 10 + 68 = 1454 points.

ST KILDA secured picks 23 + 36 + 2017 pick 1-18 = between 2302 and 4317 points.

If Hawks win 2017 flag, Saints win trade by 848 points (equivalent of pick 22 for free).

If Hawks finish fifth in 2017, as they did this year, Saints win trade by 1024 points (equivalent of pick 17).

If Hawks get 2017 wooden spoon, Saints win trade by 2863 points (equivalent of pick 1-2).

The Herald Sun reported last year that a discrepancy of more than 200 points would trigger alarm bells with the AFL and could be rejected.

[Con Gorozidis]

If you look at the draft points table you notice the points curve flattens out from pick 19 to 36 meaning there is good value in these picks.
Elshaugh and Bains know this which is why they were probably content to use both 2nd rd picks in the draft

We have the opportunity to bring in four more good young players in the next 13 months which provides us with long term success
We get these picks right we might be playing finals for the next seven years.

[saintsRrising]

one of the best comedies out there - up there with planes, trains, automobiles, and groundhog day.

Have a look at Arsenic and Old Lace

And oldie, but a goodie.

[Playon]

Our this years second rounder has certainly been doing a lot of traveling

pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)

[ace]

Our this years second rounder has certainly been doing a lot of traveling

pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)

Nobody wants pick 31, Port Adelaide was left holding the baby when the music stopped.

[Con Gorozidis]

So when Jaxons made a passing reference to 'families' coming together.
Was that the Weller or the Brown brothers?

[saintbrat]

Our this years second rounder has certainly been doing a lot of traveling

pick 31. points 606
Port Adelaide (received from Sydney Swans in a pick exchange; received by Sydney Swans from Greater Western Sydney in a pick exchange; received by GWS from from Brisbane Lions in a pick exchange; received from Collingwood as part of 2015 James Aish-Ryan Bastinac trade; originally received from St Kilda via trade for Nathan Freeman)

Pick 35 also did a few Km's

Pick 35 was a homing pigeon, starting and finishing the trade period with Fremantle. The Dockers sent the second-round selection to the Bulldogs, as part of a trade for premiership defender Joel Hamling. The Bulldogs then transferred it to Gold Coast, swapping it and pick 43 for the Suns' pick 26. And the Suns then sent it back to the Dockers, trading it and pick 71 for pick 73 and the Dockers' second-round pick in 2017. Does that all sound clear?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/2 ... s72x7.html

[jaxons]

Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:

"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.

Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.

Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."

[Zed]

Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:

"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.

Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.

Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."

Yep - as a few of us on this site have said repeatedly, its,highly unlikely that Fyfe will move . And let's be honest, if he does consider a move, highly unlikely that Saints will be at the top of his destination clubs.

[ace]

Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:

"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.

Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.

Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."

How did Hawthorn get away with giving their 2017 second rounder to Gold Coast instead of that from GWS via Carlton.

From AFL Indicative Draft
"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds."
Is it like playing a match, there are rules but they are not enforced.
There are guidelines to umpires that change from week to week and are enforced so play to the guidelines.

[Rosco]

we will never get an answer other than it was approved by the AFL

[Con Gorozidis]

Also an update on Nat Fyfe from Brad Hardie tonight:

"There was plenty of talk in trade week about clubs - notably St Kilda and Carlton - building kitties to lure Nat Fyfe east.

Dockers fans need not worry. I reckon Fyfe's deal is already basically done to stay at Freo and only needs signatures on it.

Pen might not go to paper until the mid-way point of the year but it's going to happen."

Yep - as a few of us on this site have said repeatedly, its,highly unlikely that Fyfe will move . And let's be honest, if he does consider a move, highly unlikely that Saints will be at the top of his destination clubs.

Fyfe aint going anywhere.
We need to keep looking at GWS. Shiel or Kelly have the 'go home factor' for us. If they win the flag this year - which is highly likely - they might be content to move on.

[ace]

How did Hawthorn get away with giving their 2017 second rounder to Gold Coast instead of that from GWS via Carlton.

From AFL Indicative Draft
"If a club trades a future first-round selection, it may not trade any other future selections from the same draft. However if a club retains its future first-round selection, it can trade multiple future selections from other rounds."
Is it like playing a match, there are rules but they are not enforced.
There are guidelines to umpires that change from week to week and are enforced so play to the guidelines.

we will never get an answer other than it was approved by the AFL

So at the 2017 trade period GWS (premiers) goes to Brisbane (wooden spooners) and says.
Hey lets swap 2018 first round draft picks, we will give players X , Y, & Z.
Brisbane then drops 17 places in the first round for 2018 but probably 22 places during the progress of the draft.
Brisbane then goes and trades their second third and fourth round picks from 2018.
They can do this because they still have GWS 2018 1st rounder.
That's OK.

[Rosco]

If we wanted to do something like that we now have our precedent.