Jaxons come on down

[saintsRrising]

According to the Ox (yes I know....) The Hawks are a lock for JOM and Mitchell.

Perhaps, but as they have no early picks they would have to trade off some really good players to get either, let alone both.

Cannot see the Swans accepting GOPs as they already have a good team, with good depth (which is supposedly why Mitchell MAY leave in the first place).

Suns may be more willing than the Swans would be to accept several reasonable players for JOM as they would benefit from having some sold mature (but not old) players in their first 22.

Neither club would be too excited about late picks.

[Con Gorozidis]

I am thinking we must have at least some shot at Laverde although it is Essendon so they will be complete pricks if we have to trade.

But realistically if Essendon have been forced to pay overs to keep Heppell, Hooker and Hurley - they also need to pay extra to Daniher, Parish, Z Merrett and a few others. They might have some genuine SC issues....

[Hemi Baxter]

This is going to come as a rude shock to the adoring media - but Hawthorn are digging themselves a huge hole that they will wallow in for some time.

It always surprises me how seemingly intelligent people that report on football for a living, can be so short sighted and have such short memories about how the game works.

Football clubs do not have cultures.

Football clubs do not make decisions.

People within those clubs make decisions. And these people move on eventually.


Hawthorn are where they are, because they fluked getting a great coach - with some serious flaws, and got some perfect support around him. The stars aligned. It happens sometimes - but there's no science to it.

They also have one of the greatest leadership groups ever to play the game. Probably the best. Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis and others all came to the club at the same time and built a freak team. They've been so good at it, that they've managed to bring others in consistently and flourish.

Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Gunstan followed by Lake, McEvoy, Frawley etc.

This is not a Hawthorn thing. It's a people thing. The moment these leaders move on, s*** changes almost immediately. Board members move on, coaches move on, players move on. When this happens, the mythical 'club culture' goes with them.

New people in those roles, make new decisions.


If Hawthorn keep trading out draft picks for players, they're in serious strife in the medium-long term. Ditto Geelong. What Geelong did this pre-season will hurt for years in the medium-long term.

These clubs have fallen for their own publicity.

Well written and indubitably true. What I would say, in partial mitigation, is that it is difficult, when your group of champions has a year to go and promises you they'll win another if you can just add a class player or two to fill the gaps. In this case find the ball.

[Johnny Member]

Well written and indubitably true. What I would say, in partial mitigation, is that it is difficult, when your group of champions has a year to go and promises you they'll win another if you can just add a class player or two to fill the gaps. In this case find the ball.

And I don't think many would complain about winning 3 flags whilst all this was going on.

But you've got to know when to fold them. And right now, Hawthorn have got to fold 'em.


They're not seeing it, and I think are believing the hype around their 'culture' and think they can avoid a rebuild.

No one can.

Geelong won't be able to, and neither will Hawthorn.

[st.byron]

JOM has requested a trade to Hawthorn.....good....way too much of a risk. Focus on developing young players and get some established, fit cream through FA.

[Johnny Member]

Hawthorn have Hill to use as a bargaining tool.

If Freo pull another Trent Croad special and pay overs for him, Hawthorn could get what they need to secure one of O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery.

But all 3??

Maybe an Isaac Smith or a Billy Hartung could be on the table?

But they'll need more than just Hill in order to get them all you'd think.

[saintsRrising]

Hawthorn have Hill to use as a bargaining tool.

If Freo pull another Trent Croad special and pay overs for him, Hawthorn could get what they need to secure one of O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery.

But all 3??

Maybe an Isaac Smith or a Billy Hartung could be on the table?

But they'll need more than just Hill in order to get them all you'd think.

Vickery is a FA and so he is easy to get. Though salary will be added. but Vickery will probably go cheap as he will be glad to escape the Tigers and with Roughead not likely to play there is a huge gap for another big forward in the Hawks forward line. Vickery is a way better key forward option that either Ceglar or McEvoy and as Clarkson likes have is second ruck to play as a key forward the Hawks are a great fit for him.

Hill helps, but he is not in Mitchell's or JOM's league and so the Hawks will have to trade out some talent IMO.

[jaxons]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Just saying....

[White Winmar]

This is going to come as a rude shock to the adoring media - but Hawthorn are digging themselves a huge hole that they will wallow in for some time.

It always surprises me how seemingly intelligent people that report on football for a living, can be so short sighted and have such short memories about how the game works.

Football clubs do not have cultures.

Football clubs do not make decisions.

People within those clubs make decisions. And these people move on eventually.


Hawthorn are where they are, because they fluked getting a great coach - with some serious flaws, and got some perfect support around him. The stars aligned. It happens sometimes - but there's no science to it.

They also have one of the greatest leadership groups ever to play the game. Probably the best. Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis and others all came to the club at the same time and built a freak team. They've been so good at it, that they've managed to bring others in consistently and flourish.

Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Gunstan followed by Lake, McEvoy, Frawley etc.

This is not a Hawthorn thing. It's a people thing. The moment these leaders move on, s*** changes almost immediately. Board members move on, coaches move on, players move on. When this happens, the mythical 'club culture' goes with them.

New people in those roles, make new decisions.


If Hawthorn keep trading out draft picks for players, they're in serious strife in the medium-long term. Ditto Geelong. What Geelong did this pre-season will hurt for years in the medium-long term.

These clubs have fallen for their own publicity.

Sshhh, Johnny Member. The truth hurts. You might just have put half the leadership and culture building industries out of some very lucrative jobs. You've just made some powerful enemies, my friend.

[Spinner]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Just saying....

Spot on. Called it weeks ago.

Any updates????!!!

[minneapolis]

This is going to come as a rude shock to the adoring media - but Hawthorn are digging themselves a huge hole that they will wallow in for some time.

It always surprises me how seemingly intelligent people that report on football for a living, can be so short sighted and have such short memories about how the game works.

Football clubs do not have cultures.

Football clubs do not make decisions.

People within those clubs make decisions. And these people move on eventually.


Hawthorn are where they are, because they fluked getting a great coach - with some serious flaws, and got some perfect support around him. The stars aligned. It happens sometimes - but there's no science to it.

They also have one of the greatest leadership groups ever to play the game. Probably the best. Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis and others all came to the club at the same time and built a freak team. They've been so good at it, that they've managed to bring others in consistently and flourish.

Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Gunstan followed by Lake, McEvoy, Frawley etc.

This is not a Hawthorn thing. It's a people thing. The moment these leaders move on, s*** changes almost immediately. Board members move on, coaches move on, players move on. When this happens, the mythical 'club culture' goes with them.

New people in those roles, make new decisions.


If Hawthorn keep trading out draft picks for players, they're in serious strife in the medium-long term. Ditto Geelong. What Geelong did this pre-season will hurt for years in the medium-long term.

These clubs have fallen for their own publicity.

I have been thinking the same thing and was going to start a thread on it.

First OK they have three flags but they will not win it this year and will drop next year and going forward.

(Super congratulations to the for the flags. Very envious).

However they are making one mediocre decision after another. First round draft choice for Frawley. Another for Jono O'Rourke. Money and a spot to Ty Vickery. All middle of the road players. Drafting Hartung. Now JOM. Will play a bit but will not be a long term success. That's 5 good kids overlooked.

As I say I have been watching them squeek by in games to get a top 4 spot but the writing is on the dyke wall. A Ty Vickery finger will not do it.

[prwilkinson]

I'd be pretty happy with Marchbank, Steele and Weller OR Tommy Mitchell if they can't get Weller.

[MC Gusto]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Just saying....

That's why we love ya!


Any notable updates to report on?

[desertsaint]

wasn't frawley a free agent? melbourne outrageously received a first round draft pick for him and as they were spooners it was the number one pick. only cost the hawks a salary.
i reckon the hawks are the best run club in the country and think they'll be just like geelong and sydney (and gws going forward) and stay in the hunt for the next half decade at least - and all without concessions or father/sons.
They'll have factored in JOM failing and consider it worth the risk - doubt they'd throw all their eggs in one basket.
Vickery is just a cheap filler for a few seasons - if roughie comes back he is depth, if not he'll play a role.

[Playon]

I am thinking we must have at least some shot at Laverde although it is Essendon so they will be complete pricks if we have to trade.

But realistically if Essendon have been forced to pay overs to keep Heppell, Hooker and Hurley - they also need to pay extra to Daniher, Parish, Z Merrett and a few others. They might have some genuine SC issues....

Well they'll have all that JOM left over money.

Someone was supposed to of offered him 4 mill over 5 years. I can't see it being Hawthorn, so it was either us, North or the Bombers

[kosifantutti]

Laverde article in The Age.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... rfd18.html

St Kilda is ramping up its interest in out-of-contract Essendon youngster Jayden Laverde.

Laverde, who was taken with pick 20 in the 2014 draft, is out of contract and yet to recommit to the Bombers.

[Johnny Member]

wasn't frawley a free agent? melbourne outrageously received a first round draft pick for him and as they were spooners it was the number one pick. only cost the hawks a salary.
i reckon the hawks are the best run club in the country and think they'll be just like geelong and sydney (and gws going forward) and stay in the hunt for the next half decade at least - and all without concessions or father/sons.
They'll have factored in JOM failing and consider it worth the risk - doubt they'd throw all their eggs in one basket.
Vickery is just a cheap filler for a few seasons - if roughie comes back he is depth, if not he'll play a role.

Hawthorn have excelled. No doubt.

As for 'no concessions', well, the Free Agent thing has been the biggest free kick ever to a club at the peak of its powers. Not exactly a concession as such, but certainly an advantage that only a club at the top of the ladder was realistically afforded.

"Hey Free Agent, want to go from a bottom club to a different bottom club? Or do you want to go a club that's just won two flags and still has the best list in the country?"

Not exactly an equalisation strategy!


But moving forward, what they've done in the past is not relevant to the decisions they are making now.

The decisions they are making now, appear to be based on the success of previous decisions - but they don't take into account that most of the key people won't be there any more. And this was the reason the previous decisions actually worked.

[Life Long Saint]

wasn't frawley a free agent? melbourne outrageously received a first round draft pick for him and as they were spooners it was the number one pick. only cost the hawks a salary.
i reckon the hawks are the best run club in the country and think they'll be just like geelong and sydney (and gws going forward) and stay in the hunt for the next half decade at least - and all without concessions or father/sons.
They'll have factored in JOM failing and consider it worth the risk - doubt they'd throw all their eggs in one basket.
Vickery is just a cheap filler for a few seasons - if roughie comes back he is depth, if not he'll play a role.

Melbourne received pick 3 for Frawley and drafted Brayshaw with it.
We had pick one that year and got McCartin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_AFL_draft

[longtimesaint]

wasn't frawley a free agent? melbourne outrageously received a first round draft pick for him and as they were spooners it was the number one pick. only cost the hawks a salary.
i reckon the hawks are the best run club in the country and think they'll be just like geelong and sydney (and gws going forward) and stay in the hunt for the next half decade at least - and all without concessions or father/sons.
They'll have factored in JOM failing and consider it worth the risk - doubt they'd throw all their eggs in one basket.
Vickery is just a cheap filler for a few seasons - if roughie comes back he is depth, if not he'll play a role.

Melbourne received pick 3 for Frawley and drafted Brayshaw with it.
We had pick one that year and got McCartin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_AFL_draft

What a joke -pick 3 for Frawley who at best is a GOP.
We didn't get anywhere near that for Dal or BJ who were much better players!

[To the top]

In terms of "Free Agency" and the impact of it on the Hawthorn "model", never forget the name Kennett and the old boy network political "clout" he has at this ego driven, wankers head table.

The ultimate judgement was made on Kennett and his "engineering" of society in Victoria and the AFL will wear the same outcome when public interest is lost because the "competition" reeks of bias.

[Playon]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Just saying....

So now do we put in a late offer and pay the Hawks back for all their help with the Carlisle trade?

[bobmurray]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Just saying....

So now do we put in a late offer and pay the Hawks back for all their help with the Carlisle trade?

NO

[chook23]

In terms of "Free Agency" and the impact of it on the Hawthorn "model", never forget the name Kennett and the old boy network political "clout" he has at this ego driven, wankers head table.

The ultimate judgement was made on Kennett and his "engineering" of society in Victoria and the AFL will wear the same outcome when public interest is lost because the "competition" reeks of bias.

Really???...............

[jays]

We will not have JOM.
Very likely to be in brown and gold.

Just saying....

That's why we love ya!


Any notable updates to report on?

yeh top work

[SaintPav]

Hope this time we really screw Essendon.