Uneven playing field

[Johnny Member]

The problem for me is that whilst I understand the logic you're detracting from the integrity of the competition and hence your product...

I am proud to support one of the historically most hopeless clubs in the AFL if their success or lack thereof is due to their own mismanagement.

Likewise I respect a club like Geelong that has a good system in place that allows them to be financially successful and challenge every few years.

However, if you're telling me that by it's very existence, St. Kilda starts further behind the pack than about 8 other teams that will be gifted advantages to guarantee success for the "good of the competition" then why the hell should I care?

It's like playing the pokies... why should I bother with a game that's rigged against me

And there, endeth the lesson.



Anyone who still clutched to the 'i love my club' fantasy of yesteryear, is delusional and is being conned.

Its entertainment. A business. The biggest entertainment business in the country.

Nothing more.

St Kilda isn't a club anymore. Its fundamentally a franchise.

Can you be passionate about a franchise?

[Bruce G McAbee]

The AFL in its' wisdom has also decided that they can play their preliminary final at Spotless stadium, capacity 26,000 or less.
Wow, let's promote the game and not use the ANZ stadium. Of Sydney would be rightfully questioning why tonight's game wasn't played at their home ground the SCG?
This has really turned me off the comp.

[SainterK]

Suns proof that concessions aren't everything.

Credit to Leon, SPA and the driven players

[st.byron]

The problem for me is that whilst I understand the logic you're detracting from the integrity of the competition and hence your product...

I am proud to support one of the historically most hopeless clubs in the AFL if their success or lack thereof is due to their own mismanagement.

Likewise I respect a club like Geelong that has a good system in place that allows them to be financially successful and challenge every few years.

However, if you're telling me that by it's very existence, St. Kilda starts further behind the pack than about 8 other teams that will be gifted advantages to guarantee success for the "good of the competition" then why the hell should I care?

It's like playing the pokies... why should I bother with a game that's rigged against me

And there, endeth the lesson.



Anyone who still clutched to the 'i love my club' fantasy of yesteryear, is delusional and is being conned.

Its entertainment. A business. The biggest entertainment business in the country.

Nothing more.

St Kilda isn't a club anymore. Its fundamentally a franchise.

Can you be passionate about a franchise?

I agree with what you say about it being a business Johnny, but yes I am passionate about the Saints. It's in my blood. Watching the footy here one afternoon with some of my Israeli friends, they were saying, "It's a different side of you, wow you're really emotional about it" as I watched us smash Carlton. Or in a hotel overseas during the 2010 draw and I literally couldn't watch the last two minutes live. It meant too much. It runs deep and I can't and don't want to take it out. Clutching onto an "I love my club" fantasy......I know what you mean. But I just care about the Saints. I just do. What is it I'm caring about? Whatever the morphing of the comp from a tribal Melbourne thing to big business across the country and media, the same embedded roots of being a Sainter remain in me. I could never change allegiance.

[To the top]

As I put on here before the season started, the AFL CEO in an address to the Press Club in Canberra when asked why Canberra did not have a side in the AFL responded that GWS was Canberra's side and that they would be the powerhouse of the competition for the next 10 years, winning premierships.

I took umbrage at that comment by the AFL CEO at the time, hence posting on here in the highly critical manner I did calling for the resignation of the AFL Board and the AFL CEO.

What we have seen is the competition managed (not administered) by the AFL thru Father/Son rules, thru Acadamies, thru Zone Allowances in the Salary Cap and thru Free Agency - delivering the premierships these rules have delivered and exclusively delivered over years.

Then the corruption runs to the Draw and to the umpiring - and there is betting as a driver.

Simply, the game is toxic from the top down - and is a Boy's Club for the household names that control it also thru media waxing lyrical with self praise and self promotion.

But the problems are coming.

The support for these sides falls away when they are not winning games - aka Brisbane in whom the AFL has lost interest resulting in the basket case we currently see.

The money comes from television Networks competing - and they are all financial basket cases.

Then we look at the sides that the AFL has to prop up financially.

They spoke of 49,000 at Adelaide Oval tonight, but Port Adelaide which has a poor attendance record ran promotions to have over 50,000 present at Minor Round games, and achieved same on occasion.

The crowd in Sydney was exceeded by the crowd at an American exhibition game at the same venue.

And we know what crowds St Kilda attract - not that we are the only ones and including because we always have an apposition.

Given the AFL have engineered that GWS will be the powerhouse of the competition for the next 10 years, after Hawthorn cleaned up on Free Agency, Sydney on Salary Cap concessions and Geelong on Father/Son loop holes and those sides are the only ones winning premierships, interest will fall further.

Then you have the Clubs who play the "Block Busters" in prime time and who exclusively control those time slots regardless of on field performances - including the likes of ANZAC Day.

So more interest is lost.

Once the interest is lost, it is lost for good.

Habits change and the AFL competition misses out.

The irony is that the Draft Rules and the Salary Cap were bought in for the reasons they were, to make the VFL a more even competition where cheque book was not the deliverer of success.

But the AFL have compromised both hence the premierships being exclusively won by the AFL favored Clubs and in the process becoming a boring competition.

[Johnny Member]

The clubs agreed to this... Rather than risk losing a player

Short sighted and created a huge rod for their...

Blind freddy could forecast this monster

The club's don't care about winning.

Its a business. They need a job.

If the business of making dough, they'll have a job.


You really think Finnis gives a f*** if the Saints win a flag? Please.

[bigcarl]

I hate it. It stinks.

It makes a mockery of the AFL as a sporting competition.

You watch them scrambling to get Stevie J off. And Mummy. It's Barry Hall all over again.

But don't forget the clubs voted for these expansion teams for a guaranteed existence/tv rights deal.

I never wanted it. Would have relocated North and the Bulldogs or whoever else was crap at the time.

[skeptic]

The clubs agreed to this... Rather than risk losing a player

Short sighted and created a huge rod for their...

Blind freddy could forecast this monster

The club's don't care about winning.

Its a business. They need a job.

If the business of making dough, they'll have a job.


You really think Finnis gives a f*** if the Saints win a flag? Please.

I think the club's agreeing to this comment is similar to me agreeing to give the mugger with a knife my wallet

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Having the odds officially stacked against you is what encourages clubs to bend the rules.
It's the only way to have a chance.
James Hird, come on down.

[saintspremiers]

The AFL in its' wisdom has also decided that they can play their preliminary final at Spotless stadium, capacity 26,000 or less.
Wow, let's promote the game and not use the ANZ stadium. Of Sydney would be rightfully questioning why tonight's game wasn't played at their home ground the SCG?
This has really turned me off the comp.

It's bullshyte. They got 60K at Olympic Park. I wonder how many freebies were there? That's only 10K more than the SCG hold. Can only wonder if the result would've been different on a totally different shaped and sizes ground. Didn't hear the Channel 7 lackies talk about that did we??

As for Spotless - what farking wanker decided to play a prelim there? Surely there could be up to 10K Hawks fans travelling up for the game - plus several thousand bandwagon GWS fans and plenty of neutrals given its a Prleim final??

I guess whatever helps GWS make the granny is number 1 priority.

[stevie]

Watched none of the finals and will continue for the remaining games. Only found out the scores by accident (and I still have no idea who won last night lol).

The afl have completely f***ed our game up. Thankfully the NFL is back on. And I watched a cracking Manchester Derby last night. Brilliant game.

I'm over this s*** well and truly

[markp]

Because the NFL and EPL have level playing fields?

When or where has there ever been a level playing field, in any walk of life?

The only upside and consolation is that when a club like st kilda or Leicester city snatches the prize it becomes more famous and is more celebrated than multiple titles combined for top clubs. Who the hell will get a 'GWS premiers 2016' tatt if they win? How many 'Doggies 2016' tatts if they won it?

It's far from perfect but starting a new club in a new market from scratch and expecting it to grow and flourish from the bottom of the ladder would guarantee failure.

I personally couldn't give a stuff if GWS etc existed or not, but surely you either do it this way, or you don't do it at all.

[MC Gusto]

Let's worry about getting ourselves in a position to compete for a flag before we worry about what others are doing.

Anyone can get up on the day

[bigcarl]

Because the NFL and EPL have level playing fields?

When or where has there ever been a level playing field, in any walk of life?

The only upside and consolation is that when a club like st kilda or Leicester city snatches the prize it becomes more famous and is more celebrated than multiple titles combined for top clubs. Who the hell will get a 'GWS premiers 2016' tatt if they win? How many 'Doggies 2016' tatts if they won it?

It's far from perfect but starting a new club in a new market from scratch and expecting it to grow and flourish from the bottom of the ladder would guarantee failure.

I personally couldn't give a stuff if GWS etc existed or not, but surely you either do it this way, or you don't do it at all.

Fair points. Don't do it at all.

[stevie]

The NFL has had a salary cap since 2000 so playing field is quite level. 9 different teams have won the SB since then with another couple losing by a small margin.

They also punish drug cheats immediately though they do have a leniency prob with wife bashers and alleged rapists.

[Bruce G McAbee]

The NFL has had a salary cap since 2000 so playing field is quite level. 9 different teams have won the SB since then with another couple losing by a small margin.

They also punish drug cheats immediately though they do have a leniency prob with wife bashers and alleged rapists.

I would have to say the NFL playing field is more even than the AFL is now. Teams like Seattle, Tampa Bay, St Louis, New Orleans, even New England and Denver have had success. Twenty years ago it was Dallas and San Francisco that dominated. If the NFL were run like the AFL, then Cleveland would be a shoo in for this seasons Superbowl.

[Captain Impossible]

And imagine how damn good GWS would be if the AFL endorsed/encouraged trade of Buddy was successful...

[Bluthy]

And imagine how damn good GWS would be if the AFL endorsed/encouraged trade of Buddy was successful...

Don't know actually. I think he makes the swans a bit one dimensional with being too focused on him. Other forwards seem to live in his shadow a bit and seem inhibited like Tippet - you want a more even spread from our forwards - bit like us with Rooey.

[BigMart]

GC have been even more unlucky than we were 04-06

Last two seasons

Long term injuries to
Ablett, O'Meara, Swallow, Prestia plus others
That's a starting midfield

How we we go without
Steven, Armitage, Ross, Dunstan??

Lost Bennell, Dixon, Smith

They'd be as big a monster if they didn't get crippled

[SaintPav]

The clubs agreed to this... Rather than risk losing a player

Short sighted and created a huge rod for their...

Blind freddy could forecast this monster

The club's don't care about winning.

Its a business. They need a job.

If the business of making dough, they'll have a job.


You really think Finnis gives a f*** if the Saints win a flag? Please.

Bulls!t.

[Bluthy]

The clubs agreed to this... Rather than risk losing a player

Short sighted and created a huge rod for their...

Blind freddy could forecast this monster

The club's don't care about winning.

Its a business. They need a job.

If the business of making dough, they'll have a job.


You really think Finnis gives a f*** if the Saints win a flag? Please.

Bulls!t.

+1 what a stupid comment from Johnny Strawman - he loves this sort of outlandish hyperbole. As if Finnis doesn't want to win a flag - pure idiocy.

[kosifantutti]

I wonder sometimes why people who don't seem to be interested in AFL or think clubs are just franchises bother to post in an AFL club fan forum.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but why bother if you're not interested.

I know I've got little else going on in my life.

On topic, I'd say the AFL need a big presence in NSW. More of the news and sports programs are national these days and they couldn't afford to have a basket case in Western Sydney.

[SaintPav]

The clubs agreed to this... Rather than risk losing a player

Short sighted and created a huge rod for their...

Blind freddy could forecast this monster

The club's don't care about winning.

Its a business. They need a job.

If the business of making dough, they'll have a job.


You really think Finnis gives a f*** if the Saints win a flag? Please.

Bulls!t.

+1 what a stupid comment from Johnny Strawman - he loves this sort of outlandish hyperbole. As if Finnis doesn't want to win a flag - pure idiocy.

plus 1.

He also said that the club doesn't care about winning!

A real non sequitur.

[SaintPav]

I wonder sometimes why people who don't seem to be interested in AFL or think clubs are just franchises bother to post in an AFL club fan forum.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but why bother if you're not interested.

I know I've got little else going on in my life.

On topic, I'd say the AFL need a big presence in NSW. More of the news and sports programs are national these days and they couldn't afford to have a basket case in Western Sydney.

A bit rich Kosi.

[saintsRrising]

On topic, I'd say the AFL need a big presence in NSW. More of the news and sports programs are national these days and they couldn't afford to have a basket case in Western Sydney.

Yes I know why the AFL has done it, and yes I do agree with the need for a truly national competition.

However unfortunately for the Saints the AFL were too generous and the GWS too cunning as the GWS strategy of trading off excess players for continued top-end young talent, rather than mainly for established AFL players has enabled the situation where the GWS will win not just a flag, but look to GF bound for many a year.

I am sure the AFL envisaged more of a situation where the GWS would trade their youth for more established quality players immediately and to yes still win a flag or two.

But as it has played out GWS has been very strategic at exploiting the rules to their long-term advantage and so has potentially built a team that will be dominant for a long, long time. Instead of trading in stars straight away they just gained mainly cheap experienced players to provide some experience and hard bodies as teachers and mentors and only then later started to trade in very good players when they would be their still to coincide with the blooming of their youth.


By contrast the Suns strategy and execution has been no where near as successful.