Jaxons come on down

[ace]

In regard to Jaxon's cryptic hint "families coming together", everyone seems to have forgotten about Geelong's Jordan Murdoch, brother of Brodie. He is also rumoured to be on the trade table.

Are you suggesting we could be giving Brodie Murdoch to Geelong for free just to clog up their list.
Seems a better option than cutting him.

[8856brother]

Who is Daniels?

[ace]

Boy if we end up with three then that would be all our high picks gone this draft surely. That is smelling like top up to me. Hope we get the right guys and not just because they are available. Its easy to get sucked into the "big body years in the system" guys who can push you instantly into the eight but will they have the quality to push us to a flag?

I hope Richardson feels safer in his job than Buckley.
Buckley has stated that next year is a make or break year for Collingwood.
He works for the biggest ego in football Eddie McGoo.
Bucks knows that if Collingwood does not make the finals and even win a few finals Bucks head gets chopped off.
Result, Bucks is looking for instant gratification (for Eddie).

After sniffing around Dal Santo for a decade, Collingwood is toying with recruiting Dal Santo for a year or two.
A move that simply keeps a developing player out of their team but may help Collingwood into the eight next year.
This may save Buckley's job but does not help Collingwood build for a premiership.

Please Saints give Richardson the time and loyalty he needs to BUILD a premiership winning team.
We don't need to fill the list and positions with players who have less than 5 years left in their careers.
I don't care for minor prizes, I want the jackpot.

[ace]

Who is Daniels?

Jack (Jayson) - he only had one weakness in his FOOTball game - he could not kick.

[sasaint]

Boy if we end up with three then that would be all our high picks gone this draft surely. That is smelling like top up to me. Hope we get the right guys and not just because they are available. Its easy to get sucked into the "big body years in the system" guys who can push you instantly into the eight but will they have the quality to push us to a flag?

A move that simply keeps a developing player out of their team but may help Collingwood into the eight next year.

Please Saints give Richardson the time and loyalty he needs to BUILD a premiership winning team.
We don't need to fill the list and positions with players who have less than 5 years left in their careers.
I don't care for minor prizes, I want the jackpot.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. If the Sandy team is not dominating like Boxhill did during the Hawks Premiership years, I know we don't have the depth yet to make a run for the cup. Need to keep building!

[tony74]

I can assure you we're not in the process of topping up. We're not ready yet. In fact I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of next year our ladder position is not that much different. But they'll be progress. It's all about getting it all right at the right time.

[WellardSaint]

I can assure you we're not in the process of topping up. We're not ready yet. In fact I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of next year our ladder position is not that much different. But they'll be progress. It's all about getting it all right at the right time.

I am very surprised we finished 9th myself, I thought we may win 8-9 games at the most. The Cats was a surprise, but the blow-outs were (to me) expected - we got belted last year as well by those teams and I thought we'd cop it again.
2017 could see us in 9th again or maybe sneaking in to finals;
we surprised Cats, and got Hawks in a bad patch (for them- they played poorly either side of our game)
You said, tony, that other teams will nullify the Gresh's side-step, and I think they will cover Blacres too; Armo's year was not as good as 2015 due to a combination of opp pressure and awareness of his skill, as well as his back injury.

Other teams will progress as well, and maybe get closer to us (from below us) and top 4 may draw away; Giants have enormous depth and might step up a level.
So for me, next year similar to as 2016

[Bluthy]

I can assure you we're not in the process of topping up. We're not ready yet. In fact I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of next year our ladder position is not that much different. But they'll be progress. It's all about getting it all right at the right time.

So why then Tony are we playing all the oldies and pushing so hard to finish 9th? Why weren't we more experimental with our squad this year which would result in more experience for more players but also a lower down the table finish and better draft picks which we still desperately need? It seems like we want our cake and eat it too - to be a good team but also to be a "rebuilding" team. That's a dangerous dichotomy that can split you down the middle. You've got to pick one or the other.

I hope there are some cool heads prepared to see just exactly where we are and if necessary tell Mr Super Coach Richo that he needs to be bold with the squad rotations. Its strikes me Richo has a lot of power now Pelchen is gone and Cox who had a cricket background is now footy director. Would someone stand up to Richo and say "hey stopping playing all the oldies dude - we need to focusing on the long-term"?

The Swans have been playing a younger team than ours. That is a real concern. Two 9/10th finishes is a worry. Three is a borderline disaster. So many teams have got stuck in that no mans land for a few years - Richmond, North, Carlton - and lost the access to real talent to fill out their lists and think they can trade around it which comes back to bite later. The trap is clubs don't see it as "topping up" - to them they are smart trades but clubs rarely trade elite talent. I just hope we can sort the fools gold from the real gold.

[magnifisaint]

I can assure you we're not in the process of topping up. We're not ready yet. In fact I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of next year our ladder position is not that much different. But they'll be progress. It's all about getting it all right at the right time.

So why then Tony are we playing all the oldies and pushing so hard to finish 9th? Why weren't we more experimental with our squad this year which would result in more experience for more players but also a lower down the table finish and better draft picks which we still desperately need? It seems like we want our cake and eat it too - to be a good team but also to be a "rebuilding" team. That's a dangerous dichotomy that can split you down the middle. You've got to pick one or the other.

I hope there are some cool heads prepared to see just exactly where we are and if necessary tell Mr Super Coach Richo that he needs to be bold with the squad rotations. Its strikes me Richo has a lot of power now Pelchen is gone and Cox who had a cricket background is now footy director. Would someone stand up to Richo and say "hey stopping playing all the oldies dude - we need to focusing on the long-term"?

The Swans have been playing a younger team than ours. That is a real concern. Two 9/10th finishes is a worry. Three is a borderline disaster. So many teams have got stuck in that no mans land for a few years - Richmond, North, Carlton - and lost the access to real talent to fill out their lists and think they can trade around it which comes back to bite later. The trap is clubs don't see it as "topping up" - to them they are smart trades but clubs rarely trade elite talent. I just hope we can sort the fools gold from the real gold.

It's all about winning. It helps the younger players, it helps with memberships. Do the maths

[saintsRrising]

Getting HIGH in Chamonix.

Hey Rising, by all means get as high as you can, but stay out of that pulse gondola across the Vallee Blanche between the Aiguille Du Midi and Pointe Helbronner.
It is more likely to break down than Nathan Freeman's hammy.

Too late! I am actually back now and rode that cable car on 6th August. Not the place to get stuck though as the gondolas only seat 4 and it would be below zero overnight.

Amazing views though as it crosses a glacier threaded between peaks and goes past Mount Blanc.

[SuperDuper]

I can assure you we're not in the process of topping up. We're not ready yet. In fact I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of next year our ladder position is not that much different. But they'll be progress. It's all about getting it all right at the right time.

So why then Tony are we playing all the oldies and pushing so hard to finish 9th? Why weren't we more experimental with our squad this year which would result in more experience for more players but also a lower down the table finish and better draft picks which we still desperately need? It seems like we want our cake and eat it too - to be a good team but also to be a "rebuilding" team. That's a dangerous dichotomy that can split you down the middle. You've got to pick one or the other.

I hope there are some cool heads prepared to see just exactly where we are and if necessary tell Mr Super Coach Richo that he needs to be bold with the squad rotations. Its strikes me Richo has a lot of power now Pelchen is gone and Cox who had a cricket background is now footy director. Would someone stand up to Richo and say "hey stopping playing all the oldies dude - we need to focusing on the long-term"?

The Swans have been playing a younger team than ours. That is a real concern. Two 9/10th finishes is a worry. Three is a borderline disaster. So many teams have got stuck in that no mans land for a few years - Richmond, North, Carlton - and lost the access to real talent to fill out their lists and think they can trade around it which comes back to bite later. The trap is clubs don't see it as "topping up" - to them they are smart trades but clubs rarely trade elite talent. I just hope we can sort the fools gold from the real gold.

It's all about winning. It helps the younger players, it helps with memberships. Do the maths

it helps attract talent such as Steele (we hope)

The increased player movement over th epast few years means that rebuilding has a new dimension... we are being pro-active

There is a difference between giving up a high pick for a 28 year old, which I would be totally against... and giving something for a 20 year old whose whole career is ahead of him..

you get all the 20 year olds best years... it is equal to drafting an 18 year old but
1. without spending 2 years on dveleopment and
2. you have had a better look at how good they are.

Grabbing 20 year olds who you rate from other clubs is certainly not ``topping up", but a good stragy IMO
I hope we get Steele, and one of Finlayson or Marchbank

[saintsRrising]

Having watched a chunk of the GWS vs Swans it is pretty hard to see how any team will be able to match for them for a while going forward. They are only going to get better for an extended period. This year may be the last non-GWS GF win fora while, and they may win this years. Any team can have an off day of course, but it is hard to not see that list from racking up the silverware.

Bottom 6? They don't have one. Just very good players that are still inexperienced or need to build their bodies still.
They already have more early draft picks locked in, and will get more in each year as they trade off excess players.
And then to rub salt in the wounds they get the option of topping up with any Academy players should any prove to be elite.

Our rebuild faces an enormous task to get past the GWS build, which already has the foundations to re-invigorate itself for many years.

[Playon]

Having watched a chunk of the GWS vs Swans it is pretty hard to see how any team will be able to match for them for a while going forward. They are only going to get better for an extended period. This year may be the last non-GWS GF win fora while, and they may win this years. Any team can have an off day of course, but it is hard to not see that list from racking up the silverware.

Bottom 6? They don't have one. Just very good players that are still inexperienced or need to build their bodies still.
They already have more early draft picks locked in, and will get more in each year as they trade off excess players.
And then to rub salt in the wounds they get the option of topping up with any Academy players should any prove to be elite.

Our rebuild faces an enormous task to get past the GWS build, which already has the foundations to re-invigorate itself for many years.

Yeah you're right, even Sydney with all those academy picks couldn't beat them.Maybe if we make the GF we bring back the biff, send 10 of them off with concussion, sure we'll lose players for most of the following year, but it may be worth it.
)

[jays]

Having watched a chunk of the GWS vs Swans it is pretty hard to see how any team will be able to match for them for a while going forward. They are only going to get better for an extended period. This year may be the last non-GWS GF win fora while, and they may win this years. Any team can have an off day of course, but it is hard to not see that list from racking up the silverware.

Bottom 6? They don't have one. Just very good players that are still inexperienced or need to build their bodies still.
They already have more early draft picks locked in, and will get more in each year as they trade off excess players.
And then to rub salt in the wounds they get the option of topping up with any Academy players should any prove to be elite.

Our rebuild faces an enormous task to get past the GWS build, which already has the foundations to re-invigorate itself for many years.

true gws just run rings around swans to quick to skillful

[saintbrat]

Boy if we end up with three then that would be all our high picks gone this draft surely. That is smelling like top up to me. Hope we get the right guys and not just because they are available. Its easy to get sucked into the "big body years in the system" guys who can push you instantly into the eight but will they have the quality to push us to a flag?

I hope Richardson feels safer in his job than Buckley.
Buckley has stated that next year is a make or break year for Collingwood.
He works for the biggest ego in football Eddie McGoo.
Bucks knows that if Collingwood does not make the finals and even win a few finals Bucks head gets chopped off.
Result, Bucks is looking for instant gratification (for Eddie).

After sniffing around Dal Santo for a decade, Collingwood is toying with recruiting Dal Santo for a year or two.
A move that simply keeps a developing player out of their team but may help Collingwood into the eight next year.
This may save Buckley's job but does not help Collingwood build for a premiership.

Please Saints give Richardson the time and loyalty he needs to BUILD a premiership winning team.
We don't need to fill the list and positions with players who have less than 5 years left in their careers.
I don't care for minor prizes, I want the jackpot.

Looks like Bucks is loading up to raise his average age
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/fremantle- ... rdam9.html

Mayne 4 yr and Wells 2 yr ????

[The_President]

Why do people on here always rate players from other clubs higher than players already on our list - just because they're from another club.

Just seems absurd.

[ace]

Getting HIGH in Chamonix.

Hey Rising, by all means get as high as you can, but stay out of that pulse gondola across the Vallee Blanche between the Aiguille Du Midi and Pointe Helbronner.
It is more likely to break down than Nathan Freeman's hammy.

Too late! I am actually back now and rode that cable car on 6th August. Not the place to get stuck though as the gondolas only seat 4 and it would be below zero overnight.

Amazing views though as it crosses a glacier threaded between peaks and goes past Mount Blanc.

Great photo Rising.
I had the pleasure pleasure to be in Chamonix many years ago.
Dumped fresh powder over night.
My group was in maybe the third cable car up that morning.
Blue sky, sunshine and fresh powder all the way down the Vallee Blanche.
A brilliant day's skiing surrounded by massive peaks on all sides.

BUT
You don't seem to have heard the news.
It DID break down a few days ago and people WERE trapped overnight.
Happened Thursday I think.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopi ... 72#2927555
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37314026
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/708 ... roken-down

[Johnny Member]

So why then Tony are we playing all the oldies and pushing so hard to finish 9th? Why weren't we more experimental with our squad this year which would result in more experience for more players but also a lower down the table finish and better draft picks which we still desperately need? It seems like we want our cake and eat it too - to be a good team but also to be a "rebuilding" team. That's a dangerous dichotomy that can split you down the middle. You've got to pick one or the other.
I hope there are some cool heads prepared to see just exactly where we are and if necessary tell Mr Super Coach Richo that he needs to be bold with the squad rotations. Its strikes me Richo has a lot of power now Pelchen is gone and Cox who had a cricket background is now footy director. Would someone stand up to Richo and say "hey stopping playing all the oldies dude - we need to focusing on the long-term"?

We're playing guys - just not in the 1s.

The development can quite often come from young guys playing in the 2s.


Once again, you're jumping at shadows and creative a narrative Bluthy. It's based on nothing.

You're creative a narrative whereas we have a dictator coach that everyone is scared of that is coaching for his own short term career.

You're creative a narrative where the coach has nothing in his tool box except for a 'crash and bash' high pressure game plan that is hurting players physically, and stifling the development of all these talented young guys in the ressies.

You're now, without a single trade being completed - creating a narrative that the coach is topping up and everyone at the club is either too football-stupid and/or scared to pull him up on it!


Quite frankly, you're speaking complete and utter s***.

The Swans have been playing a younger team than ours. That is a real concern. Two 9/10th finishes is a worry. Three is a borderline disaster. So many teams have got stuck in that no mans land for a few years - Richmond, North, Carlton - and lost the access to real talent to fill out their lists and think they can trade around it which comes back to bite later. The trap is clubs don't see it as "topping up" - to them they are smart trades but clubs rarely trade elite talent. I just hope we can sort the fools gold from the real gold.

These concerns are valid - but are completely separate from the other narrative you've dreamt up.

We had to make a choice to bottom out. It was the right call. But I'm still not convinced we managed to find the youngsters in the draft that we needed to. Guys like Curren, Saunders and co. that you seem to think are superstars being kept out of the team by a stubborn coach were never going to be the answer. When they were playing, we were no good. We needed other guys to force them out of the team, which naturally occurred as we started to climb the ladder.

They weren't good enough.

Shenton, Lonie, Templeton, Sinclair, Rice and the long list of others you seem to think should be playing every week, are not good enough yet. I doubt Shenton will ever be.

So all I can deduce from your narrative, is that you think we should tank? We should be playing guys that aren't good enough, in order to lose and finish lower down the ladder. Is that what you're saying?

There's no doubt in my mind, that Sinclair will be good. I see a bit of the Robbie Gray's in him. Templeton I'm not certain of, and Lonie I'm almost certain won't make it. But I don't understand the logic of playing these guys every week in order to make them better players. It's simply not the case.

If they have deficiencies in their game, it's often better to work on them in the 2s. Playing young guys every week in the 1s isn't always going to make them better players.

So we need better players coming into the club. No doubt.

Trading Pick 6 for Carlisle was a huge risk. I didn't like it at the time. However, the fact that we scored Gresham and Carlisle from it, means it was a win. Aside from that, we've recruited really well thus far. Bruce, Hickey and Membrey have been excellent additions, at little cost.

The Carlisle trade, as per above, has also been good so far.

So I'm not sure where you're pulling this 'Richo is topping up and no one is brave enough to tell him to stop!' hysteria from?


I agree that finishing 9th and 10th is not good. And I also agree that trading draft picks for the wrong players is really bad business.

But we can't control where we finish - unless we tank. And we haven't traded draft picks for anyone except Carlisle.


So seriously, where are you getting this s*** from?

[Bluthy]

I shall dub thee Johnny Strawman - the King of the Strawmen!

[saintsRrising]

BUT
You don't seem to have heard the news.

Thanks, but yes I did hear the news and why I commented...Not the place to get stuck though as the gondolas only seat 4 and it would be below zero overnight.

I was doing a number of alpine hikes in the valley over the week and so we had all the right clothing and spaceblanket etc in our daypacks with us which contrasted with a few ladies arriving at the Aiguille du Midi in just sandles and minimal clothing obviously not realising that the peak would be much colder than the valley floor 3000m below.

Two days later on the other side of valley doing the Lac Blanc Hike and the cloud and rain settled in, and so on with the gear.

[Playon]

Honestly guys can't you take the holiday snaps off to PM's?

[kosifantutti]

Seeing we are way off topic, here is the headline of the week.

[loris]

Seeing we are way off topic, here is the headline of the week.

Looks like World War 2 was fought on Cassidy's face.

Anyway let's get back to the the Saintsational War that's flaming on this thread - now where were we?

I think some one was 'huffin & bluthin' to blow a straw house down

[Playon]

Trade target Jaeger O’Meara has met with Essendon and Hawthorn
JON RALPH, Herald Sun
September 10, 2016 8:00pm
Subscriber only

JAEGER O’Meara will spend the next fortnight overseas considering his future home after undergoing a series of medical examinations last week.

The Gold Coast midfielder has met Essendon and Hawthorn, with that pair the clear frontrunners for his services.

Clubs are understandably concerned about his durability, but it seems certain they will offer him long-term deals given his extraordinary potential.

St Kilda and North Melbourne are also keen to meet O’Meara, with one club prepared to offer a five-year deal worth as much as $4 million.

But that seems well down the pecking order given Essendon has multiple options to get a deal done for O’Meara and Hawthorn remains the ultimate destination club.

Having passed up a monster two-year deal worth more than $800,000 a season at Gold Coast, he will choose the club with the best fit and best medical services.
Jaeger O'Meara has not played for the last two years. Picture: Adam Head

O’Meara will spend that time overseas pondering his future with a move to Victoria a certainty for a player with a Melbourne girlfriend and Armadale apartment.

Essendon and Hawthorn seem confident they are in an ideal position but with 41 days until the trade period closes there is plenty of time for unexpected developments.

On the open market without his patella tendon issues he would be worth in excess of $1 million a year and multiple top-10 picks in a trade.

But given he has not played senior football since the end of 2014 clubs will hedge their bets on what they are prepared to give up for him.

Hawthorn has consistently shown itself to be a risk-taker which recruits seemingly flawed players or drafts players with injury or character issues and tries to iron out their flaws.

But securing Richmond free agent Tyrone Vickery on more than $400,000 a year, Sydney’s Tom Mitchell on $500,000 a year and O’Meara would require the work of salary cap genius.

The Hawks will likely trade out Brad Hill to a West Australian-based club and have secured pay cuts from its four elder statesman but it would still need to find significant space.
Hawthorn is targetting Tyrone Vickery. Picture: Getty Images)

Former Hawthorn recruiter Gary Buckenara told Superfooty the Bombers and Suns should trade draft picks to secure a deal for O’Meara.

“If he picks Essendon a way they could do the deal is ask for the No.1 draft pick but give up one of their own first-round picks,’’ he said.

“They did a deal with Melbourne last year to get their first-round pick, currently No.8, while they’ve also got their own first pick, currently No.4.


“So they could say to Essendon we’ll give you O’Meara and pick No.8 for pick No.1 and see if the Bombers, considering they’re getting all their top players back, might be willing to drop back a few places in the draft.

“I think that would be a good enough deal to get Essendon to give up the prized No.1 pick. If he chooses another club his value alone is one top-10 pick.”

[Playon]

Any truth that JOM refused to meet with St Kilda?