Game plan changes

[Enrico_Misso]

In his B&F speech Richo thanked his assistant coaches for amongst other things their inputs into making some significant changes to the gameplan well into the season (not his exact words but my vague recollection of them).

I'm guessing these changes were made mid season which was the driving force behind coming home with 8 wins out of the last 11 games.

So what exactly was Richo referring to - what did we do differently in terms of structure, style and execution?

[bigcarl]

Interesting to speculate on what those changes were.

Perhaps the addition of a bit more dash - Gresham, Acres and others - at the clearances at times?

We'd been relying very heavily on Steven for this and it's never good to be counting on one guy playing a blinder every week.

Other than that -,which I might have imagined - and some mainly forced changes I can't think what else was different.

The general gameplan seemed the same. Relentless pressure when they had it, rapid ball movement when we had it. Full commitment when it was in dispute.

What am I missing?

[BigMart]

Aggressive us of the ball off half back... And using a 3-3 set up rather than 5 and an extra,

We defended small.

[bigcarl]

Aggressive us of the ball off half back... And using a 3-3 set up rather than 5 and an extra,

We defended small.

[loris]

Aggressive us of the ball off half back... And using a 3-3 set up rather than 5 and an extra,

We defended small.

And we saw players like Roberton, Dempster & Gears pushing forward and kicking goals in second half of season more than other seasons.

[saintsRrising]

Less kicking to long leads in the forward line with greater use of short passes.

The spare man in defence killed us it the first half of the season as the opposition gained great value from their extra man whereas we did not.

Weller really nailing the mini-Hamill role up forward and so suspect that Hamill was an influence there. I mean he was a real clone of Hamill, but shorter this year - the pit bull way he played with huge forward pressure but still a great offensive game with power marking.

Injecting more pace into the team and particularly McKenzie and Wright together. (PS I also spoke with McKenzie at the B&F and he noted that he has basically just played in winning St Kilda sides).

More offensive backline, even if it meant that defensive game was sacrificed. Very noticeable that our defenders really pushed deep into the forward line wit even Geary snagging goals from great offensive run.


Geary: I don't know if was coaching, or self-realisation, but in the last two thirds of the year we saw Geary Mark III and this made a difference. He improved defensively but the biggest change was that the brain fades and sometimes errant kicking just disappeared.

[BigMart]

Geary has been good for years.

We do press forward hard now if we switch

Membrey and Weller reshaped the forward line... It is now more dynamic.

I don't like the role Wright plays... I'd rather another offensive threat in that role.

[saintsRrising]

Geary has been good for years.

.

However one rates Geary in recent years, he was better this year IMO.

I might be wrong, but you seem to be the only one that does not want to acknowledge that Geary improved this year.

PS: Did you note how Roo slotted a couple of round the corner goals in his last game SJ style? Shame that evidently older players cannot learn new tricks or improve. Personally I reckon that both Geary and Roo debunked your hypothesis this year.

[Scollop]

I reckon Roo has always been a smart footballer and learning a new role playing on the wing and being an extra in stoppages is not a surprise. As far as kicking the footy round the corner SJ style isn't anything new for him either. What's new is that he has time to settle and plan the kick and execute the kick better due to the new 10 metre rule.

Geary has been a whipping boy for some Saints fans because we were on the bottom for a few years and it's easy to scapegoat guys in the backline. Geary wasn't the only bloke making mistakes. All players, especially the younger less experienced turn it over. If Lenny or Roo had clangers it was ok. The errors and turnovers and missed tackles from our mids were forgiven.

Miissed shots by our forwards were forgiven. Instead of bagging the whole team the easy thing to do is blame one or two. Do you know why Geary was your number 1 whipping boy? Because Gilbo was injured; Raph and Jones and Gwilt delisted; and Kosi retired

[Bluthy]

The main thing I suspect they identified was that we were getting smashed by oppo's rebounding out of the back. Wright wasn't even playing all that well at Sandy but with his speed and toughness he was the perfect guy to pressure the backs and smash them into the ground. Minch and Gresham became preferred over Sincs and Lonie as with their thick little legs they were able to really get at the defenders and mids more and stick their tackles. They could also do some work onball to mix it up for us that Lonie and Sincs are still struggling to be effective at. Combined with Mav, Membrey and Bruce applying a lot of pressure we really shut down a fair chuck of the oppo run from the back.

Once the ball wasn't able to be pumped in relentlessly by the oppo running defenders we could get away with a lack of tall backs hence Lee and Delaney weren't played and Robbo and Gilbo were able to cover the 3rd tall role whilst still attacking a fair bit.

[BigMart]

Did I ever say older blokes can't learn NEW things

Or

Did I say older player find it hard to improve things they have been doing for 15-20 years

Maybe get it right before spruiking...

It has something to do with unlearning... What would I know though, only have a degree in Sports Science with a major in Movement Anaylsis and Exercise Physiology???
Plus there's the psychomotor element to be considered
Habitual habits are harder to get of than herpies

Otherwise every player would just keep on improving with training over time
Travis Cloke, Daniher, Richardson, Riewoldt... List goes on

Btw
Any player can have good and bad days... Be over or under sold ... And get better through game sense, other than skill development.
Roo kicke 3g 15b over a 4 game stretch this season.

[saintsRrising]

Did I ever say older blokes can't learn NEW things

Or

Did I say older player find it hard to improve things they have been doing for 15-20 years

Maybe get it right before spruiking...

It has something to do with unlearning... What would I know though, only have a degree in Sports Science with a major in Movement Anaylsis and Exercise Physiology???
Plus there's the psychomotor element to be considered
Habitual habits are harder to get of than herpies

Otherwise every player would just keep on improving with training over time
Travis Cloke, Daniher, Richardson, Riewoldt... List goes on

Btw
Any player can have good and bad days... Be over or under sold ... And get better through game sense, other than skill development.
Roo kicke 3g 15b over a 4 game stretch this season.

Lol. That is a lot of words to avoid saying Geary was better this year.

[BigMart]

Everyone has better or worse years...

Jarryn has been excellent for quite some time, you do realise?!

Armo had a worse year... Did he regress and get worse?
Sinclair and Lonie were worse... Did the extra 12 months make them worse

Players have good or not so good games/years
Is it because after 10 years in the system they suddenly learn how to kick

Come on man...

[SainterK]

Geary has consistently polled high in the b&f for a few years now...

The side dipped for a few years...

Now the side has improved, the midfield has improved, the backline subequently improves...it's down there less, IMO anyways

[saintsRrising]

Geary has consistently polled high in the b&f for a few years now...

The side dipped for a few years...

Now the side has improved, the midfield has improved, the backline subsequently improves...it's down there less, IMO anyways

I can't follow that line of logic at all. If Geary was in the play less why would the coaches give him more votes this year? He has polled well in a number of years, but polled his best this season.

If the team improved, and it did, then if Geary stayed the same why did not the improving number of players push him down the B&F list? He gained more votes and placed higher in a season when there were more St Kilda that players played well.

No, Geary was better this year. At least that is my opinion, and looking at the B&F votes the coaches too.


Caveat:
1/ B&F voting systems get tweaked all the time and s comparing actual points from year to year needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
2/ B&F votes are somewhat biased as coaches ask the players what to do and so the votes cast reflect this.

[To the top]

In terms of game plan, we got cut up in early season games by sides that employed extra players to defence - GWS who got us in the last quarter after we had scrapped until then and Western Bulldogs where we had no answer.

So to me it was making players (both ours and opposition) accountable - witness Weller going forward to put some physical pressure on the "spare" defender and deny them space to either switch or carry.

So, instead of playing a Lonie or a Sinclair we became far more physical in the denying of space and time.

This also meant we went away from playing a small, specialist forward because both Weller and Gresham could also take turns in the mid-field, as could Acres who roamed the ground from full forward to full back.

So, instead of being designated a "small forward" to negate the opposition defensive players all of a sudden had more physical players to be accountable for with those players having versalility in terms of using the ground and dragging their opponents with them.

Then we had Bruce, McCartin and Membrey - along with Roo contributing and Billings so we became far more potent.

We started to play the game on our terms.

The improvement from here needs to come from the other end of the ground where we leaked too many scores.

The last match against poor opposition was a case in point altho the loss of Hickey (for Holmes) told because we were a mid-fielder down in terms of contest given what Hickey brings v Holmes.

But the positive was that McKenzie and White gave glimpses of what we need to support our KPP defenders where we also need to improve resource over and above Carlisle and Goddard (hence Fisher's position).

That to me was the pleasing change which delivered results.

And it sets a very big challenge to the likes of Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton et al. who need to bring a physical presence.

[barneyboyz]

In terms of game plan, we got cut up in early season games by sides that employed extra players to defence - GWS who got us in the last quarter after we had scrapped until then and Western Bulldogs where we had no answer.

So to me it was making players (both ours and opposition) accountable - witness Weller going forward to put some physical pressure on the "spare" defender and deny them space to either switch or carry.

So, instead of playing a Lonie or a Sinclair we became far more physical in the denying of space and time.

This also meant we went away from playing a small, specialist forward because both Weller and Gresham could also take turns in the mid-field, as could Acres who roamed the ground from full forward to full back.

So, instead of being designated a "small forward" to negate the opposition defensive players all of a sudden had more physical players to be accountable for with those players having versalility in terms of using the ground and dragging their opponents with them.

Then we had Bruce, McCartin and Membrey - along with Roo contributing and Billings so we became far more potent.

We started to play the game on our terms.

The improvement from here needs to come from the other end of the ground where we leaked too many scores.

The last match against poor opposition was a case in point altho the loss of Hickey (for Holmes) told because we were a mid-fielder down in terms of contest given what Hickey brings v Holmes.

But the positive was that McKenzie and White gave glimpses of what we need to support our KPP defenders where we also need to improve resource over and above Carlisle and Goddard (hence Fisher's position).

That to me was the pleasing change which delivered results.

And it sets a very big challenge to the likes of Lonie, Sinclair, Templeton et al. who need to bring a physical presence.

I reckon that's pretty well on the money. I would add that Lonie got frustrated early when trying the pressure and tried too hard sometimes, but will get better, and when Sinclair gets a tank will be a very smart mid, who goes forward kicking goals. Templeton also needs a tank and will go between mid/forward

[To the top]

Just one further observation is that we did not capitalise on having an extra player in our defensive zone and I would not mind betting that some players had the acid put on in terms of contribution to spread, run and carry from defence - so it was a coming together of both.

Perhaps this is where Geary achieved his occolades - because he started to contribute to winning footy matches.

We even started to get some goals from our nominal defenders!

So, all of a sudden we were not so easy to play against - unless injuries intervened during games as they did on occassions and exposing that we still require a few players because our "bottom 6" could not step up.

Now if we can structure up with some support for Fisher, because Dempster, Gilbert and Roberton were all asked to do jobs they are not equipped for!

The spread of players plus the bits shown by McKenzie and White will put the pressure on for positions in 2017 - when you would expect that Montagna and Gilbert will return to the mid field putting further pressure on for positions

[saynta]

Forward pressure created in part by Wright, Weller and meatball.

[BigMart]

How many goals did our defenders actually contribute in 2016?

[To the top]

Our nominal defenders contributed 20 goals for the season, and I would suggest that the great majority of these were in the back half of the season - plus Fisher hit the post!

So that is a goal a week across the season.

[BigMart]

Really?

Who were our nominal defenders

Geary, Dempster, Webster

Montagna, Fisher, Savage

Roberton, McKenzie, Delaney

Gilbert, White, Lee

[To the top]

Savage (3), Montagna (4), Geary (3), Roberton (3), Gilbert (5), Dempster (1) and White (1)

And Fisher hit the post!!!

None as prolific as the rebounding Gram was but a marked improvement.

[BigMart]

There is 7 there

[To the top]

Mate, without wishing to call you what you obviously are, but, the last I knew 3 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 5 + 1 + 1 = 20 goals kicked by the nominal defenders YOU name.