Is Jaeger Worth the Trouble?

[Johnny Member]

The Suns are understandably pissed and want a very high price and because he is not a free agent they will not take into account his club of choice.

Does a player have to accept the trade for it to go through or does he get no say at all?

That is a very good question. This is kind of an unwritten rule in the AFL that hasnt been fully tested in the Crts.....
JOM is out of contract but not eligible to be a FA. So there needs to be some quid pro quo. But this is a sort of gentlemanly arrangement.

For example what if Brisbane offered something to GC like Rockliff + pick 2. And GC said ok thats great but then JOM cracked it and refused to go.
That sort of scenario would be interesting.

I thought it was actually pretty simple.

Once your contract expires, you either stay at the club you're at and sign another contract - or you go into the pre-season draft to be picked up by another club. Obviously if you do that, your former club gets nothing for you (even though you're out of contract so you're not 'theirs' anyway) and you don't get a choice as to what club picks you up.

So the system is pretty simple.

But both parties obviously don't like this idea - even though it's a basic principle of the AFL's strategy to even up the comp. So they dodge it by basically feigning signing a contract with their former club, which makes them 'theirs' and therefore are able to trade them to wherever the players wants to go.

For the life of me, I don't know why the AFL lets this happen.


So to the original question - does the player have to go if he doesn't want to? No.

If the player is in contract, he's absolutely entitled to say 'No, get f***ed. I'm staying and you're paying me'. And that is where the destination club would need to make a pitch in terms of a payrise, more opportunities etc. Otherwise, plenty would simply say no.

If the player is out of contract though, he has no choice. If his current club isn't going to renew his contract or is, but at a lower rate with fewer opportunities - you either accept the trade or you put yourself in the pre-season draft and either end up at a club you don't want to go to anyway and/or on lower pay anyway, or find yourself out of a job altogether.

[Johnny Member]

So basically, guys that get traded are usually either told they're not going to get much game time at their current club - or won't have their contract renewed the following year. Or, they've already asked the club to look for a trade for whatever reason.

[SaintPav]

If we ended up getting this guy (I still don't know how) and it backfired, it could put the club back five years.

At what point would the club be deemed negligent in taking on such a risk and making such a potentially stupid and costly decision?

What's the mechanism for remedy?

It appears it is the supporters who end up suffering and we all just have to "suck it up".

Andrew Lovett anyone.

[CQ SAINT]

Give him a 3 year retainer contract of 750k and match payments of 15k a game and 30k for finals.

If all goes well he gets around 2mil for 3 years and we get finals and top 4 by 2019.

If not, we lose 750K but get the flexibility of resting him next year as we have with Freeman. At 750k he only has to get 23 good games in 3 years to give us value.

Matches played for Sandy would not count.

Its a fair deal and the money means nothing. The benefits, if he came good, would be massive.

Edited- no trade, gotta go to the draft and refuse to deal with anyone else.

[Johnny Member]

If we ended up getting this guy (I still don't know how) and it backfired, it could put the club back five years.

At what point would the club be deemed negligent in taking on such a risk and making such a potentially stupid and costly decision?

What's the mechanism for remedy?

It appears it is the supporters who end up suffering and we all just have to "suck it up".

Andrew Lovett anyone.

Two things:

(1) We need very good players. We don't have enough of them. We probably have two - hopefully three if Carlisle delivers. And one of them only has one year left in him. So at some point, we're going to have to take a risk in order to get at least one star player to the club. There's just no point in denying that.

(2) I think it's a bit naive to think that the club wouldn't do its due diligence in terms of his injury and the long term impact of it. They'd have access to all of his medical records (which I'd dare say would be extremely extensive) and their own independent medical assessment also. So if they, or any other club do get him - I wouldn't think that negligence would play a part.




The other thing is though, Gold Coast's rant about wanting the same level of player for him. That's just ridiculous. From all angles. Why would we offer them a player who's of the same level? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What's the point in that?

[Scollop]

He would have been the exact player we needed

And thats the kicker. "Would have been." Way to many questions on his longetivity. Suns saying they want two first rounders. So teams will be tempted to give away future picks. Next years draft is already being called another "Super draft". Best Top 20 for a while. Need to make sure we're not missing out on it.

I'm with you. There are gems available in the draft so we just have to do our homework and I think we have one of the best coaches as far as nurturing and building confidence in young talent.

Instant success and fast improvement is where the excitement is generated from recruiting a known quantity rather than drafting an 18 year old. But seriously, if our recruiters cannot find the right players and if we don't trust our development coaches then it's time to recruit new recruiters and new development staff.

I'm having second thoughts about O'meara and if you look it at from a percentages angle, there's more chances of drafting a talented young mid who will give us just as much upside in 2018-2020. The club needs to take a step back after the Carlisle and Freeman trades proved that the output from both of these guys is still unknown and has been anything but fast or instant.

[SaintPav]

If we ended up getting this guy (I still don't know how) and it backfired, it could put the club back five years.

At what point would the club be deemed negligent in taking on such a risk and making such a potentially stupid and costly decision?

What's the mechanism for remedy?

It appears it is the supporters who end up suffering and we all just have to "suck it up".

Andrew Lovett anyone.

Two things:

(1) We need very good players. We don't have enough of them. We probably have two - hopefully three if Carlisle delivers. And one of them only has one year left in him. So at some point, we're going to have to take a risk in order to get at least one star player to the club. There's just no point in denying that.

(2) I think it's a bit naive to think that the club wouldn't do its due diligence in terms of his injury and the long term impact of it. They'd have access to all of his medical records (which I'd dare say would be extremely extensive) and their own independent medical assessment also. So if they, or any other club do get him - I wouldn't think that negligence would play a part.




The other thing is though, Gold Coast's rant about wanting the same level of player for him. That's just ridiculous. From all angles. Why would we offer them a player who's of the same level? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What's the point in that?

When people throw around words like due diligence, particularly in this day and age and everything we know about organizational failure, I just laugh.

The club has a track record in bad decision making, so 'pal', it's not me who is being naive so please, lose the high horse attitude and get your head out of your arse.

[Johnny Member]

If we ended up getting this guy (I still don't know how) and it backfired, it could put the club back five years.

At what point would the club be deemed negligent in taking on such a risk and making such a potentially stupid and costly decision?

What's the mechanism for remedy?

It appears it is the supporters who end up suffering and we all just have to "suck it up".

Andrew Lovett anyone.

Two things:

(1) We need very good players. We don't have enough of them. We probably have two - hopefully three if Carlisle delivers. And one of them only has one year left in him. So at some point, we're going to have to take a risk in order to get at least one star player to the club. There's just no point in denying that.

(2) I think it's a bit naive to think that the club wouldn't do its due diligence in terms of his injury and the long term impact of it. They'd have access to all of his medical records (which I'd dare say would be extremely extensive) and their own independent medical assessment also. So if they, or any other club do get him - I wouldn't think that negligence would play a part.




The other thing is though, Gold Coast's rant about wanting the same level of player for him. That's just ridiculous. From all angles. Why would we offer them a player who's of the same level? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. What's the point in that?

When people throw around words use words like due diligence, particularly in this day and age from all we know about organizational failure, I just laugh.

The club has a track record in bad decision making, so 'pal', it's not me who is being naive so please, lose the high horse attitude and get your head out of your arse.

Does it?

Compared to who?

Compared to Hawthorn with Garlett? Compared to Brisbane? Compared to Freo? Compared to Geelong with Clarke? Compared to Essendon? I could go on, and on. Always puzzles me why Saints fans choose the victim and loser mentality when reflecting on their club.

These decisions didn't turn out well for these clubs, but it's not through negligence. It's usually either bad luck, or just the wrong call. But they're not necessarily even bad decisions anyway unless the alternative was better.

And how does the decision making of a club, have any relevance to the decision making of the people in key roles at the club now? Different people in almost every single role at the place compared to 5 years ago. Strange conclusion to draw. Really strange. Frankly, it's utterly illogical.

Do you really, seriously believe that of the 10 clubs that have expressed interest in O'Meara, with the best sports doctors in the country that money can buy - would not bother to get an accurate assessment on the impact of his knee issues to his long term future?

Come on.

They might not get it right - but it's unfathomable that they would be negligent about it.

[samoht]

O'Meara had surgery on both knees and then one of his patellas popped out --- so chances are his other patella may go? Which other tendon is next?
Contrast him with players like Dal Santo and Montagna who are virtually indestructable. Durability is important at AFL level.

[Johnny Member]

O'Meara had surgery on both knees and then one of his patellas popped out --- so chances are his other patella may go? Which other tendon is next?

FWIW I'd trust a highly paid, highly trained and respected sports medical professional's opinion on that ahead of mine.


And ahead of anyone's on here for that matter.

[samoht]

Well, my trust is in durable footballers - more so than the opinions of highly trained professionals on the prospects of injury prone players.

[Con Gorozidis]

O'Meara had surgery on both knees and then one of his patellas popped out --- so chances are his other patella may go? Which other tendon is next?

FWIW I'd trust a highly paid, highly trained and respected sports medical professional's opinion on that ahead of mine.


And ahead of anyone's on here for that matter.

Yes and what exactly are the highly trained and respected sports medical professionals who have actually treated him saying?

There is a thing called dr-patient confidentiality.

If anyone claims they know JOM's actual medical situation then they are almost certainly lying because his actual treating practitioners would not be sharing what they know.

[Johnny Member]

Well, my trust is in durable footballers - more so than the opinions of highly trained professionals on the prospects of injury prone players.

Valid.

[Johnny Member]

O'Meara had surgery on both knees and then one of his patellas popped out --- so chances are his other patella may go? Which other tendon is next?

FWIW I'd trust a highly paid, highly trained and respected sports medical professional's opinion on that ahead of mine.


And ahead of anyone's on here for that matter.

Yes and what exactly are the highly trained and respected sports medical professionals who have actually treated him saying?

There is a thing called dr-patient confidentiality.

If anyone claims they know JOM's actual medical situation then they are almost certainly lying because his actual treating practitioners would certainly not be sharing what they know.

I don't know what they're saying. Hence me not passing judgement on O'Meara's condition.

But when the time comes for clubs to assess him, I'd expect that he would allow any suitor full access to his medical records and allow them to perform a full medical assessment. As do all players who are changing clubs.

[resaintlee]

I've gone right off the idea after this years experience. Perhaps we could trade Freeman for him, he was a No 10 pick. The panel did well picking Gresham and I would much prefer another with his potential to the uncertainty. Even if JOM is okay, and we cannot be sure, the Lions are going to talk him up, especially to a gullible club like ours. Also, what early picks do we still have to give away?
Then it could be worse, we could do another deal with Essendon.

[samoht]

I agree with the poster directly above.... let's find the next Bontompelli, taller version of Gresham etc.
Even with detail and full access, the medical opinion will be on how and to what extent he has recovered from the injuries that have plagued him- they won't predict any upcoming ones.
His track record is not good. Where there's smoke there's fire; recruiters beware. Maybe we should have a rehabilitate one cripple at a time policy .. let's get Freeman sorted out first before we load up on others.

[bigcarl]

IPerhaps we could trade Freeman for him, he was a No 10 pick.

Fair comparison IMO. Loads of potential but can't get on the park.

They'd want Acres or Gresham or Membrey or one of our other developing players. No thanks and certainly not on those terms.

[Bardon Saint]

IPerhaps we could trade Freeman for him, he was a No 10 pick.

Fair comparison IMO. Loads of potential but can't get on the park.

They'd want Acres or Gresham or Membrey or one of our other developing players. No thanks and certainly not on those terms.

Little comparison. JOM is proven at AFL level to be a gun relative to his age.

Freeman yet to prove himself at VFL level and is speculative.

[bigcarl]

IPerhaps we could trade Freeman for him, he was a No 10 pick.

Fair comparison IMO. Loads of potential but can't get on the park.

They'd want Acres or Gresham or Membrey or one of our other developing players. No thanks and certainly not on those terms.

Little comparison. JOM is proven at AFL level to be a gun relative to his age.

What isn't proven is that O'Meara can stay on the park. Freeman has played as much good football as him this year.

[st.byron]

What players with multiple knee operations have come back to be champions a couple of years later? Might be a few, but I get the feeling JOM could get up to senior fitness, though I bet he would never be the player with the potential he had pre injury.

Burgoyne's knees were shot when he arrived at Hawthorn.

No they weren't. He injured his knee, not knees, in round 3 2009 and came back in round 17. Missed 13 games that year.
2010 he moved to Hawthorn, had knee surgery, missed the first 7 rounds and played every game after that. He has barely missed a game since.

Totally different scenario to O'Meara. Using Burgoyne as a reason to say O'Meara is a good option is another example of people living in dreamland about O'Meara.

[st.byron]

If we ended up getting this guy (I still don't know how) and it backfired, it could put the club back five years.

At what point would the club be deemed negligent in taking on such a risk and making such a potentially stupid and costly decision?

What's the mechanism for remedy?

It appears it is the supporters who end up suffering and we all just have to "suck it up".

Andrew Lovett anyone.

Exactly. This is why I'm so strident about this issue. We've been carefully building a list and culture and looking like we know where we're going. Making astute draft moves and there's a group of young players who are developing well.
Agree that some cream in the midfield would be a great addition, but this guy is just way too risky. Our team is building through astute management and recruiting. It would just be so so so deflating to pay top price for O'Meara and have it backfire, which there's a high chance it will. It could suck the guts out of the club.

[St Loxton]

If we ended up getting this guy (I still don't know how) and it backfired, it could put the club back five years.

At what point would the club be deemed negligent in taking on such a risk and making such a potentially stupid and costly decision?

What's the mechanism for remedy?

It appears it is the supporters who end up suffering and we all just have to "suck it up".

Andrew Lovett anyone.

Exactly. This is why I'm so strident about this issue. We've been carefully building a list and culture and looking like we know where we're going. Making astute draft moves and there's a group of young players who are developing well.
Agree that some cream in the midfield would be a great addition, but this guy is just way too risky. Our team is building through astute management and recruiting. It would just be so so so deflating to pay top price for O'Meara and have it backfire, which there's a high chance it will. It could suck the guts out of the club.

This for me.

[st.byron]

Do you really, seriously believe that of the 10 clubs that have expressed interest in O'Meara, with the best sports doctors in the country that money can buy - would not bother to get an accurate assessment on the impact of his knee issues to his long term future?

Come on.

They might not get it right - but it's unfathomable that they would be negligent about it.

Johnny I get the argument about due diligence. But all the due diligence in the world doesn't change the fact it's a very high risk option. Much better to wait for a quality FA, trade for someone who's currently playing or develop through the draft.

And regarding due diligence. Do you reckon GC did their due diligence before putting O'Meara back on the field for a reserves game in July? Surely they did all the due diligence in the world for his recovery. And the outcome of that? Off before half time looking proppy, more knee surgery and season over. Due diligence meant SFA in that case. It's just too high risk unless he comes cheap. We don't even know if he can play next year.

[Johnny Member]

Yeah, no problem with that.

Depending on what we offer (if anything), there is definitely risk involved. No doubt.


My response is purely regarding the suggestion that 10 clubs are going to go nuts and offer the world for O'Meara without bothering to find out about his condition.

I don't agree with that.

[Bardon Saint]

What isn't proven is that O'Meara can stay on the park. Freeman has played as much good football as him this year.

That is true and as such, I'm err-ing in the no camp unless the price is right given the risk.