Hypothetical

[BigMart]

This is not a 'hindsight' thread or a 'we should have took' thread, nor is it a whinge about recruiting.

Just a bit of fun, and a bit of dreaming... But you need to provide a rationale!

You get to change 1 draft selection since 1999... Which would it be?
(Exclude father son)
The player must have been available at StKs selection... And you lose the Stk pick

Options could be

1999 pick 9 Robert Murphy (13) Beetham
1999 pick 9 Brad Green (18) Beetham
2000 pick 2 Shaun Burgoyne (12) Koschitzke
2000 pick 2 Daniel Kerr (18) Koschitzke
2001 pick 2 Chris Judd (3) Ball
2001 pick 5 Jimmy Bartel (8) X. Clarke
2001 pick 21 Stephen Johnson (24) Maguire
2001 pick 49 Dane Swan (58) Houlihan
2002 Pick 22 Kade Simpson (45) Ferguson
2003 pick 8 David Mundy (19) R.Clarke
2004 pick 17 Nathan Van Berlo (24) McQualter
2004 pick 33 Mark Lecras (33) Ackland
2005 pick 33 Andrew Swallow (43) Gilbert
2005 pick 49 Joel Platful (56) Rix
2006 Pick 9 James Frawley (12) Armitage
2006 pick 9 Jack Riewoldt (13) Armitage
2006 pick 27 Todd Goldstein (37) Howard
2006 pick 27 Robbie Gray (55) Howard
2006 pick 59 Justin Westhoff (71) Allen
2007 pick 9 Patrick Dangerfield (10) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Cyril Rioli (12) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Harry Taylor (17) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Alex Rance (18) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Callan Ward (19) McEvoy
2007 pick 57 Taylor Walker (75) Gehrig
2008 pick 13 Jackson Trengrove (22) Lynch
2008 pick 13 David Zaharakis (23) Lynch
2008 pick 13 Dane Beams (29) Lynch
2008 pick 13 Daniel Hannebury (30) Lynch

Which swap would have been the most significant on StK history?!

[st.byron]

2001 Judd instead of Ball. Judd was an absolute jet and Brownlow winner in 2004.

Put him in our team and we may have gone all the way instead of falling short by a goal in a prelim.

[White Winmar]

Judd. Judd. Judd. He was by far the best player in his draft. How they overlooked him is beyond me. Thanks GT.

[Con Gorozidis]

Given the timing of it, it just has to be Judd. We were already a very good side 2004-2010. You add in Judd at his peak in those years and we win at least one flag and maybe three.

[saynta]

Judd. Judd. Judd. He was by far the best player in his draft. How they overlooked him is beyond me. Thanks GT.

From memory, I think the Saints thought they would get both Ball and Judd.

Judd had dodgy shoulders and the eagles were thought to be after the West Aussie boy.

[BigMart]

Judd was never going outside the top 3

That 3 was head and shoulders above 4 Polack was 4 and 6 weeks before the draft he came into contention after kicking 7 for East Freo
But as the draft drew closer the big 3 cleared out ahead

WCE couldn't call his name out quick enough

[saintsRrising]

I think everyone will pick Judd.


So leaving him aside- Dangerfield. You would want him for similar reasons to Judd.

Then third.. Lecras as right through that period we lacked a medium forward who was accurate.

[BigMart]

Hmm...

You need to also consider the out

How would Jimmy Bartel or Stevie J been 2004-2011

[Darth Vader]

Can't think of a single draft pick by any club in history that cost more than choosing Ball over Judd. Our prime coincided with Judd's. Can make a case that it cost us 4 premierships.

[chook23]

Swan over Houlihan

[St Chris]

Judd aside, I'm gonna pick Bartel, he's a gun and would have been every bit a club legend that Lenny Hayes is.

Not to mention that without picking Xavier Clarke, we might have passed on Raph...

[skeptic]

I would say that Swan over Houlihan is by far the beat deal there... Lose nothing gain a jet.

The thing with Judd v Ball is that in those early days before injury, we weren't complaining that much about missing out on Judd... Yeah we conceded he was better but Ball was a gun in his own right.

We also know that he was an integral part of our leadership and the re-shaping of our culture at the time... You don't know the impact of losing that leader.

You don't risk losing anything with Swan

Let me make you a counter offer though BM...
Take Stevie J ahead of Maguire, then instead of Houlihan take one Brian Lake, formally Brian Harris with the pick for Houlihan... I believe he went late that draft too

[wally]

You could include the swaps for Barry Brooks and Fergus Watts. First rounders I think.

[White Winmar]

This is not a 'hindsight' thread or a 'we should have took' thread, nor is it a whinge about recruiting.

Just a bit of fun, and a bit of dreaming... But you need to provide a rationale!

You get to change 1 draft selection since 1999... Which would it be?
(Exclude father son)
The player must have been available at StKs selection... And you lose the Stk pick

Options could be

1999 pick 9 Robert Murphy (13) Beetham
1999 pick 9 Brad Green (18) Beetham
2000 pick 2 Shaun Burgoyne (12) Koschitzke
2000 pick 2 Daniel Kerr (18) Koschitzke
2001 pick 2 Chris Judd (3) Ball
2001 pick 5 Jimmy Bartel (8) X. Clarke
2001 pick 21 Stephen Johnson (24) Maguire
2001 pick 49 Dane Swan (58) Houlihan
2002 Pick 22 Kade Simpson (45) Ferguson
2003 pick 8 David Mundy (19) R.Clarke
2004 pick 17 Nathan Van Berlo (24) McQualter
2004 pick 33 Mark Lecras (33) Ackland
2005 pick 33 Andrew Swallow (43) Gilbert
2005 pick 49 Joel Platful (56) Rix
2006 Pick 9 James Frawley (12) Armitage
2006 pick 9 Jack Riewoldt (13) Armitage
2006 pick 27 Todd Goldstein (37) Howard
2006 pick 27 Robbie Gray (55) Howard
2006 pick 59 Justin Westhoff (71) Allen
2007 pick 9 Patrick Dangerfield (10) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Cyril Rioli (12) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Harry Taylor (17) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Alex Rance (18) McEvoy
2007 pick 9 Callan Ward (19) McEvoy
2007 pick 57 Taylor Walker (75) Gehrig
2008 pick 13 Jackson Trengrove (22) Lynch
2008 pick 13 David Zaharakis (23) Lynch
2008 pick 13 Dane Beams (29) Lynch
2008 pick 13 Daniel Hannebury (30) Lynch

Which swap would have been the most significant on StK history?!

What an interesting list, BM. Truth be told, reading it makes me a little ill. All those missed opportunities. I know you can't possibly get them all right, especially when you are picking 18 year olds. Imagine just 3-4 on that list in the current team. It shows the importance of recruiting. Vital in business and sport. For years under GT and Butterssssss, our recruiting budget was around $70,000 p.a. Most of this was used on Bevo's meagre salary. Some players were taken sight unseen. Bevo could've attracted a salary 3 times greater elsewhere, but he was loyal and dedicated. There is no coincidence that our recruiting has improved in recent years as the trout now has 4 assistants and interstate scouts and networks. Could also have something to do with letting me go at the end of 2011.

[White Winmar]

BTW. What about Cripps over Darling? A shocker which we got SFA for and he ended up at WCE anyway. I agree with you in your assessment of him, BM. A GOP at best. I know he's played 77 games for 116 goals for WC (16 for 16 for us) not a bad return, but Darling has 126 games and 224 goals. Not to mention Darling's presence. Before anyone tells me Cripps stats are justification for his selection, I pose this question. If you had to choose just one, who would you take? We did lots of homework on Darling because of the BS rumours the WC spread about his behavioural "problems". A lovely young man from a good, but slightly out there family. I couldn't believe we took Cripps ahead of him.

[saintbob]

Judd a definite!!

But Armitage, X, Howard, McEvoy, Houlihan, Raph and McQualter probably shouldn't have been picked either!!!

[Sobraz]

With Judd we win GF 04 and likely 09.
Who knows what else in between, but that's as much as a fact as you can get for a hypothetical.
Bartel for X, we'd certainly be far better off, and as a proven big game player, likely to have at least one more premiership.



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[freely]

1999 - Paul Chapman, definitely. Then in a glorious 'back to the future' moment he's playing for us in 2009, not Geelong - but still kicks the winning goal!

[barneyboyz]

Looking at this, you've got to ask...apart from Gehrig, Maguire, Kosie and Armitage (all due respect to others), what were we thinking???

[gurubob101]

Looking at this, you've got to ask...apart from Gehrig, Maguire, Kosie and Armitage (all due respect to others), what were we thinking???

Apart from taking Judas instead of Judd we really didn't do too badly from 2000-2010 IMO. The last few years have been slim pickings in terms of results but we were regular finalists through most of the draft period we are looking at. Many of the best players in the game represented our club during this time including Lenny, Milney, Riewoldt, Dal, Joey, BJ, the G-Train and even the mighty Bakes who had no peer as a tagger. We were a powerhouse side without a constant stream of father son champions, AFL sponsored hand outs and huge financial resources to draw on. There are plenty of other clubs who went a lot worse. Richmond, Carlton or Melbourne spring instantly to mind.

[mr six o'clock]

The thing with Judd v Ball is that in those early days before injury, we weren't complaining that much about missing out on Judd... Yeah we conceded he was better but Ball was a gun in his own right.

That's right
I remember one of his early games where he kicked a beautiful goal from 50 metres
After his O.P. issues he lost a yard of pace and struggled to kick the ball more than 40 metres .

[skeptic]

1999 - Paul Chapman, definitely. Then in a glorious 'back to the future' moment he's playing for us in 2009, not Geelong - but still kicks the winning goal!

Take Chapman out of Geelong and put him in our 22, we win by 7 goals

[BigMart]

Ball was a b&f
A runner up b&f
Captain
All Australian

All in his first 3 seasons of footy

OP in his 4th season

[Myron Gaines]

Judd was never going outside the top 3

That 3 was head and shoulders above 4 Polack was 4 and 6 weeks before the draft he came into contention after kicking 7 for East Freo
But as the draft drew closer the big 3 cleared out ahead

WCE couldn't call his name out quick enough

Hawks were also gunning for Hodge at 1
St Kilda were going for Ball at 2 & Judd at 5
Freo were always going to take local tall Polak at 4 (leaving Judd for us)
West Coast were leaked they were going to take Sampi at 3 leaving Judd for us but blindsided us & took Judd at 3. Bastards

[BigMart]

Ball for most of the Year was the likely number 1, Judd 2 and Hodge 3... Hodge actually was the player under the biggest injury cloud. Not as athleticall gifted as the other 2... But a Gun!!!

At the end though it was line ball

Daylight and then Polak