Anybody else having doubts with trading in a star?

[skeptic]

Is anybody else starting to really go off the idea trading in a star player/free agent.

I've been reading threads on this forum for months about Hurley, O'Meara, Fyfe etc. and they always go the same way...
It costs us an arm and a leg to trade them in... And the player demands a salary into the millions over a few years that guarantees that we will eventually have a salary cap squeeze and force a gun out in the future.

Hurley... Is not an elite player of the competition. He's a good player that plays a handful of excellent games a season. IMO the fact that he can take a grab and successfully goes forward a few times a season has really inflated people's perceptions of him.
As a defender, he can be beaten and occasionally is. The elite forwards aren't scared of him... And he's older. Yet the rumour mill has his perceived self worth at over $800k a season... That is a freaking joke. I think Sam Fisher is a better key defender one on one and most know that personally I haven't rated Fisher as highly as most (don't mean that disrespectfully).

And to get him into the team, Essendon are seeking a first round draft pick and a player!!! Watson floated around the idea of Ross and Gresham before they carted him off to the asylum. Getting him is a terrible idea.

Now Fyfe on the other hand is a man worthy of his reputation that's for sure. But it's fair to say that there are both question marks regarding both his durability now and the scuttlebutt that his teammates seem to really dislike him.
And to play for your club, the man wants millions... MILLIONS.
On field he may be worth it but not only is there's a risk element there but also what kind of message does this send to the group? Work hard and stay loyal but only a few of you... The better ones will get to make even close to higher end salaries because we're selling the farm to a non-grown player that's moving for money.

We get him and IMO we sell a chance at sustained success because we'll limit future options both in getting and potentially keeping players.

Then you have O'Meara... A combination of the two above in that he'll command pay cheque far in excess of what he's legitimately shown he's able to consistently produce. Again has the ??? over his durability.
And he would cost an arm and a leg to get. At least our first pick and a whole lot more.

I reckon outside of your own club it's a folly to pay overs for potential.

If you're going to do it, I think the correct way pay a smaller amount of overs (at a small trade in cost) for players that look like they are about to become good. The Steeles, the Marchbanks etc.

Thoughts?

[SaintPav]

Sounds good to me.

[The Fireman]

Ok..let's fork out for a crystal ball.

[wally]

I think every year we have to buy one very good player to fill a void in our list.
Hawthorn and Sydney are the best examples over a long time.
The Carlisle deal was the start (hasn't shown results this year but will long term )
I wouldn't trade future picks and try to hold 1st round pick.
Omeara a risk,

[The Fireman]

Stanley is starting to look the goods...what did we get for him ?

[prwilkinson]

Maybe best to go for a Marchbank/Steele type and of deal and keep pick 8 or 9 or whatever it is as well. If Hurley is interested in coming to the club.. great... lets work something out. Don't blow smoke up the guy's arse though. Same goes with chasing any 'star' players.
Might even be best to wait for the AFLPA salary negotiations to be completed so the club knows exactly where they stand with what they can do with the ENTIRE list moving forward. We have a lot of very good young players starting to come on. Lets not forget about them.
Keep aiming at being a genuinely strong senior team in 2018. If it comes earlier... great! But, I hope the club doesn't put blinkers on and change the strategy because of a decent back half of the 2016 season.

[Choppa]

If you're going to do it, I think the correct way pay a smaller amount of overs (at a small trade in cost) for players that look like they are about to become good. The Steeles, the Marchbanks etc.

Thoughts?

That strategy worked pretty well with Mav and Membrey

[borderbarry]

I dont believe trading in an absolute star is the answer for us. A younger up and coming star yes, that is more to our needs. Wont cost as much, and will be a Saints player longer.

[Life Long Saint]

If you're going to do it, I think the correct way pay a smaller amount of overs (at a small trade in cost) for players that look like they are about to become good. The Steeles, the Marchbanks etc.

Thoughts?

That strategy worked pretty well with Mav and Membrey

And Bruce!

[evertonfc]

Didn't hurt the 2001-3 Lions with Alistair Lynch.
Didn't hurt the 2004 Power with Gavin Wanganeen.
Didn't hurt the 2005 Swans with Barry Hall.
Didn't hurt the 2008-16 Hawks with Shaun Burgoyne.
Didn't hurt the 2007-13 Cats with Brad Ottens.
DIdn't hurt the 2010 Magpies with Luke Ball (...)

You have to be prepared to make the right call at the right time. There is no blanket strategy that will guarantee success.

Very rarely will one player solve all your problems - even if Lance Franklin and Patrick Dangerfield have turbocharged their new teams.

The key is to find the right players the maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses. As we have multiple weaknesses, I'd like to see us spend our salary cap on a range of players who can help make us more competitive as a unit.

If you are going to buy a superstar, he has to fit into the team, but also make theose around him better. Probably the only one I can see doing that who might be available is Fyfe, although I doubt we could satisfy the needs of the Dockers without giving up our best pick (top 10) and our best WA player (Acres).

[Griggsy]

Of course I have my doubts, skepticism comes with being a st kilda supporter.

[takeaway]

Didn't hurt the 2001-3 Lions with Alistair Lynch.
Didn't hurt the 2004 Power with Gavin Wanganeen.
Didn't hurt the 2005 Swans with Barry Hall.
Didn't hurt the 2008-16 Hawks with Shaun Burgoyne.
Didn't hurt the 2007-13 Cats with Brad Ottens.
DIdn't hurt the 2010 Magpies with Luke Ball (...)

You have to be prepared to make the right call at the right time. There is no blanket strategy that will guarantee success.

Very rarely will one player solve all your problems - even if Lance Franklin and Patrick Dangerfield have turbocharged their new teams.

The key is to find the right players the maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses. As we have multiple weaknesses, I'd like to see us spend our salary cap on a range of players who can help make us more competitive as a unit.

If you are going to buy a superstar, he has to fit into the team, but also make theose around him better. Probably the only one I can see doing that who might be available is Fyfe, although I doubt we could satisfy the needs of the Dockers without giving up our best pick (top 10) and our best WA player (Acres).

Agree - IMO a smart selection of 2 or 3 good or potentially good young players would be far better than one expensive, mature superstar. I would even argue that whilst Dangerfield has had a great year, his domination has resulted in less effective seasons for Selwood (still very good), Duncan, Griegson and others. Geelong have improved, but probably not enough for a flag. A good developing group is normally better than one superstar

We certainly are right in meeting with the likes of Hurley, Fyfe, but if the cost exceeds the benefit, walk away, and pursue Steele, Ahern, etc.

[mr six o'clock]

Stanley is starting to look the goods...what did we get for him ?

we got pick 21 after using pick 47 to draft him .
What I find interesting is that allot of media types say that he is so much better at the cats and why did the saints get rid of him .
However if you look at his stats they are only slightly up on his time at the saints .
but at geelong he spends more time in the ruck .
He is probably a smarter footballer but this comes from experience .

[Wombat15]

Maybe best to go for a Marchbank/Steele type and of deal and keep pick 8 or 9 or whatever it is as well. If Hurley is interested in coming to the club.. great... lets work something out. Don't blow smoke up the guy's arse though. Same goes with chasing any 'star' players.
Might even be best to wait for the AFLPA salary negotiations to be completed so the club knows exactly where they stand with what they can do with the ENTIRE list moving forward. We have a lot of very good young players starting to come on. Lets not forget about them.
Keep aiming at being a genuinely strong senior team in 2018. If it comes earlier... great! But, I hope the club doesn't put blinkers on and change the strategy because of a decent back half of the 2016 season.

in terms of the stanley trade hes only come good now 2 seasons after the trade and Goddard looks the goods in his handful of games. Was devastated he suffered the Achilles.

Yeah i think marchbank and steele are the way to go. We are building for a strong 2018 onwards so better to get some young talent. In my eyes if you can build around a strong foundation of 9 players you can sprinkle what you like around them. Im hoping we can get the package deal where we get 3 for 1. we've dealt with them in the past and unlike essendon they are willing to compromise and explore options.

DEF: Marchbank, Goddard and Carlisle
MID: Ross, Steven, Steele
FWD: Membrey, Bruce Paddy
You then build around those 9 and you compliment them with players like Gresh, Acres, Weller and even calling it early Brandon White. Then you have a very strong list to build around and a gameplan that will work when you have more experienced players.

before someone calls me out about players missing i was looking more towards our ''younger core'' as our building blocks. also im not including billings until he shows more consistency as to why we drafted him at pick 3!!!

[Sainternist]

Stanley is starting to look the goods...what did we get for him ?

we got pick 21 after using pick 47 to draft him .
What I find interesting is that allot of media types say that he is so much better at the cats and why did the saints get rid of him .
However if you look at his stats they are only slightly up on his time at the saints .
but at geelong he spends more time in the ruck .
He is probably a smarter footballer but this comes from experience .

And of course we used that pick 21 on getting Hugh Goddard.

Personally, I'm not missing Stanley at all. If he remained at St.Kilda, he would have become a white elephant. Would probably be languishing in the VFL right now. Granted, he is talented but lacked confidence and needed a change of regime. All the power to him for revamping his career. Our concern now is developing Goddard's potential of being a key defender.

[To the top]

Remember that we played him at full back (and then recruited Delaney)

So did we actually finish up with a full back (Goddard) in exchange?

Plus, would he ruck in front of Hickey and a fit Longer?

Or play in attack ahead of McCartin, Bruce or Membrey?

It is about balance.

[supersaints]

Didn't hurt the 2001-3 Lions with Alistair Lynch.
Didn't hurt the 2004 Power with Gavin Wanganeen.
Didn't hurt the 2005 Swans with Barry Hall.
Didn't hurt the 2008-16 Hawks with Shaun Burgoyne.
Didn't hurt the 2007-13 Cats with Brad Ottens.
DIdn't hurt the 2010 Magpies with Luke Ball (...)

You have to be prepared to make the right call at the right time. There is no blanket strategy that will guarantee success.

Very rarely will one player solve all your problems - even if Lance Franklin and Patrick Dangerfield have turbocharged their new teams.

The key is to find the right players the maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses. As we have multiple weaknesses, I'd like to see us spend our salary cap on a range of players who can help make us more competitive as a unit.

If you are going to buy a superstar, he has to fit into the team, but also make theose around him better. Probably the only one I can see doing that who might be available is Fyfe, although I doubt we could satisfy the needs of the Dockers without giving up our best pick (top 10) and our best WA player (Acres).

Think all those clubs were in a premiership window...? . We are a way off - we should target younger potential stars Steele etc.not pay a superstar megabucks until that window opens. There will always be good players to target in around two seasons.

[skeptic]

Curiously, who was the last supposedly elite, high profile player we got before Carlisle?

I'm struggling to remember anyone after Lovett

[whiskers3614]

Curiously, who was the last supposedly elite, high profile player we got before Carlisle?

I'm struggling to remember anyone after Lovett

Surely you don't consider either Lovett or Carlisle elite!

[older saint]

If Hurley wants to come they should go hard. He is Elite and at his age would provide us key position posts locked away for the future.
O'Meara was elite now is too big a ? with his knees.
Fyfe - i think you are waiting until next year when free agent and can get big $$
Can see them having a crack at Steele.

We need to import A grade talent as with the list still developing you don't want to run the risk of having Monty, Roo Dempster leave and they be replaced with 18 19 year olds. If you have 25,26 years olds come in the momentum of the past 5 drafts can continue.

[skeptic]

Curiously, who was the last supposedly elite, high profile player we got before Carlisle?

I'm struggling to remember anyone after Lovett

Surely you don't consider either Lovett or Carlisle elite!

Hahaha not quite...
Both high profile though

[Bernard Shakey]

Haven't we had enough gun Sidebottoms?

[CQ SAINT]

If Hurley wants to come they should go hard. He is Elite and at his age would provide us key position posts locked away for the future.
O'Meara was elite now is too big a ? with his knees.
Fyfe - i think you are waiting until next year when free agent and can get big $$
Can see them having a crack at Steele.

We need to import A grade talent as with the list still developing you don't want to run the risk of having Monty, Roo Dempster leave and they be replaced with 18 19 year olds. If you have 25,26 years olds come in the momentum of the past 5 drafts can continue.

This. +1

[suss]

Yes, I have doubts. Just cannot remember the last time a big name player joined us. Hammill maybe.

The chances of us landing Fyfe or Mitchell? Highly unlikely I reckon. Hoping to be proved wrong though.

[Jacks Back]

Maybe best to go for a Marchbank/Steele type and of deal and keep pick 8 or 9 or whatever it is as well. If Hurley is interested in coming to the club.. great... lets work something out. Don't blow smoke up the guy's arse though. Same goes with chasing any 'star' players.
Might even be best to wait for the AFLPA salary negotiations to be completed so the club knows exactly where they stand with what they can do with the ENTIRE list moving forward. We have a lot of very good young players starting to come on. Lets not forget about them.
Keep aiming at being a genuinely strong senior team in 2018. If it comes earlier... great! But, I hope the club doesn't put blinkers on and change the strategy because of a decent back half of the 2016 season.

I hope we don't change boats mid stream either as, in all seriousness, we haven't really beaten any good teams this year (only the cats and the dogs - second time around).