Sobering stats from last night

[Con Gorozidis]

Average Attributes

St Kilda Attribute Sydney
187.4cm Height 187.1cm
85.6kg Weight 86.8kg
25yr 4mth Age 24yr 9mth
102.3 Games 93.5

[Johnny Member]

It's not sobering. Its misleading.


Seriously, it's like lining Gina Reinhart up next to a checkout chick and telling us the average income is $500m.

It's true, but irrelevant and misleading.


The important stat is how many players each team has in each Age bracket, and in each Games Played bracket.

[borderbarry]

If you take the five oldest players out of each side the stats would be way different.

[kosifantutti]

I drank 4 beers in the afternoon but had 2 cokes at the game.

[Con Gorozidis]

ok - rather than cry, deny and make smart alec remarks - how about you actually face the facts?

you asked for it:

them
under 23
lloyd/mills/heeney/hewett/cunningham/papley/nankervis/allir = 8
under 50 games
heeney/towers/mills/hewett/papley/allir/nankervis/naismith/richards = 9

Us
under 23 = 7
under 50 games = 7

Try and dismiss/rationalise that to suit your emotional bias.

Still misleading?

But but but but they have more players in the middle you say. Yes I know that which is one of the reasons why they are better.

But they still have MORE kids than us. So we cant use 'kids' as an easy excuse. They actually had 9 blokes under 50 games - we only had 7. They also had one MORE under 23 than us.

Add

We still have Armo/Savage/Robo/Steven/Hickey/Mav/Newnes/Gilbert as core middle aged players.

Despite the shrill denials on here - it is sobering.

[The Fireman]

that really sobered me up.

[Con Gorozidis]

that really sobered me up.

[Con Gorozidis]

Cant get Carlisle soon enough. Key fwds must love playing us. They must really love it.

[WellardSaint]

Cant get Carlisle soon enough. Key fwds must love playing us. They must really love it.

how did Tomahawk go against us?
and Jake The Package Stringer?

[Johnny Member]

ok - rather than cry, deny and make smart alec remarks - how about you actually face the facts?

you asked for it:

them
under 23
lloyd/mills/heeney/hewett/cunningham/papley/nankervis/allir = 8
under 50 games
heeney/towers/mills/hewett/papley/allir/nankervis/naismith/richards = 9

Us
under 23 = 7
under 50 games = 7

Try and dismiss/rationalise that to suit your emotional bias.

Still misleading?

But but but but they have more players in the middle you say. Yes I know that which is one of the reasons why they are better.

But they still have MORE kids than us. So we cant use 'kids' as an easy excuse. They actually had 9 blokes under 50 games - we only had 7. They also had one MORE under 23 than us.

Add

We still have Armo/Savage/Robo/Steven/Hickey/Mav/Newnes/Gilbert as core middle aged players.

Despite the shrill denials on here - it is sobering.

Having kids is never the issue. Teams always have and always will peak when the bulk of their list is in that 100-150 game mark.

How good you actually become, depends on the ability of the guys in that bracket.


The ones you listed above are a clear example of why we're in the position we are in.

Compare the guys you listed above in our 'peak' age/experience bracket with just about any other club's, and it's why we get wallopped by good sides.

We just don't have the talent yet. Its simple.


Once McCartin, Billings, Steven, Gresham, Bruce, Carlisle, Hickey and hopefully a few others are in that peak bracket, is when we can expect to be at our best.

And depending on how good Billings, Gresham and co. actually become will determine how realistic a chance at a flag we will be.


What you've posted isn't sobering. It's obvious, and not really at all relevant to us at this point in time.

It's probably only sobering to the rusted on supporters who aren't realistic about where we're at.

[Con Gorozidis]

Cant get Carlisle soon enough. Key fwds must love playing us. They must really love it.

how did Tomahawk go against us?
and Jake The Package Stringer?

Stringer is not big or a KPF.

Tomahawk was playing awful at that point against everyone.

If you really must know Boyd kicked 3 against us. Dixon 3, Cameron 5, Hogan 7, Kennedy 5, Mitch Brown 4, Jenkins 7, Casboult 3, Hawkins 3, P Wright 3, B Brown 3, Franklin 6.

But ok - we dont need Carlisle then. Fisher and Dempster can play forever. Whatever makes you happy.

[bigcarl]

ok - rather than cry, deny and make smart alec remarks - how about you actually face the facts?

you asked for it:

them
under 23
lloyd/mills/heeney/hewett/cunningham/papley/nankervis/allir = 8
under 50 games
heeney/towers/mills/hewett/papley/allir/nankervis/naismith/richards = 9

Us
under 23 = 7
under 50 games = 7

Try and dismiss/rationalise that to suit your emotional bias.

Still misleading?

But but but but they have more players in the middle you say. Yes I know that which is one of the reasons why they are better.

But they still have MORE kids than us. So we cant use 'kids' as an easy excuse. They actually had 9 blokes under 50 games - we only had 7. They also had one MORE under 23 than us.

Add

We still have Armo/Savage/Robo/Steven/Hickey/Mav/Newnes/Gilbert as core middle aged players.

Despite the shrill denials on here - it is sobering.

That is depressing reading Con. The Swans have built on the significant advantages handed them by the AFL to be a seemingly permanent fixture in the finals.

That Aliir Aliir tops it off. Six games into an AFL career and he looks an elite defender already.

[shrodes]

That Aliir Aliir tops it off. Six games into an AFL career and he looks an elite defender already.

21 years old and drafted in 2013. Shows the value of patience when it comes to drafting that a few posters on here would be wise to learn.

[saintsRrising]

Aliir is just great recruiting.


Heeney et al is part of the acedemy rort that guarantees aunfaor access to elite talent irrespective of how high or low the Swans finish.

[CURLY]

When your gifted the best player in the comp it's amazing what your fringe players look like.

[fugazi]

When your gifted the best player in the comp it's amazing what your fringe players look like.

Getting Herney and Mills while finishing in top 4 is a ripoff
However Con is correct those stats are sobering...you can't just claim we were younger and less experienced...we were just thrashed by a much superior side who are still growing in power largely thanks to the ridiculous AFL concessions.

[saintspremiers]

Allir Allir, is here, is here!

Sorry had to say it but. Sudanese born and grew up in Brisbane. How the heck did they find him? Sounds as unlikely as the hyphen at the Dons.

[st.byron]

Aliir is just great recruiting.


Heeney et al is part of the acedemy rort that guarantees aunfaor access to elite talent irrespective of how high or low the Swans finish.

Yep Aliir is great recruiting. They got it right. 3rd rounder at pick #44.

The Sydney academy though is another part of the lack of a level playing field in the national comp. Mills, Heeney, McVeigh and Parker from yesterday's team all from the Sydney academy that the Swans can cherry pick. They have their very own talent incubator with a huge pool of young players to choose from.
The AFL is very determined to keep the Sydney clubs strong - it's such a big market - the fixture, stadium deals etc etc.....

[samuraisaint]

Cant get Carlisle soon enough. Key fwds must love playing us. They must really love it.

how did Tomahawk go against us?
and Jake The Package Stringer?

Stringer is not big or a KPF.

Tomahawk was playing awful at that point against everyone.

If you really must know Boyd kicked 3 against us. Dixon 3, Cameron 5, Hogan 7, Kennedy 5, Mitch Brown 4, Jenkins 7, Casboult 3, Hawkins 3, P Wright 3, B Brown 3, Franklin 6.

But ok - we dont need Carlisle then. Fisher and Dempster can play forever. Whatever makes you happy.

Spot on Con. And we face Jack Riewoldt on the MCG next Saturday. Losing Carlisle for the year was always going to be a massive problem for us. This is why we didn't beat Port or North this year, and why we might get beaten by Richmond Saturday too. It is also a major reason why we have received 3 hidings this season by more than 70 points as well.

[BringBackMadDog]

ok - rather than cry, deny and make smart alec remarks - how about you actually face the facts?

you asked for it:

them
under 23
lloyd/mills/heeney/hewett/cunningham/papley/nankervis/allir = 8
under 50 games
heeney/towers/mills/hewett/papley/allir/nankervis/naismith/richards = 9

Us
under 23 = 7
under 50 games = 7

Try and dismiss/rationalise that to suit your emotional bias.

Still misleading?

But but but but they have more players in the middle you say. Yes I know that which is one of the reasons why they are better.

But they still have MORE kids than us. So we cant use 'kids' as an easy excuse. They actually had 9 blokes under 50 games - we only had 7. They also had one MORE under 23 than us.

Add

We still have Armo/Savage/Robo/Steven/Hickey/Mav/Newnes/Gilbert as core middle aged players.

Despite the shrill denials on here - it is sobering.

Yep it's wonderful what you can achieve with extra salary cap and free hits at the best Young talent in the country (Heeney and Mills). Let's be honest, its never been an even playing field

[st.byron]

ok - rather than cry, deny and make smart alec remarks - how about you actually face the facts?

you asked for it:

them
under 23
lloyd/mills/heeney/hewett/cunningham/papley/nankervis/allir = 8
under 50 games
heeney/towers/mills/hewett/papley/allir/nankervis/naismith/richards = 9

Us
under 23 = 7
under 50 games = 7

Try and dismiss/rationalise that to suit your emotional bias.

Still misleading?

But but but but they have more players in the middle you say. Yes I know that which is one of the reasons why they are better.

But they still have MORE kids than us. So we cant use 'kids' as an easy excuse. They actually had 9 blokes under 50 games - we only had 7. They also had one MORE under 23 than us.

Add

We still have Armo/Savage/Robo/Steven/Hickey/Mav/Newnes/Gilbert as core middle aged players.

Despite the shrill denials on here - it is sobering.

Yep it's wonderful what you can achieve with extra salary cap and free hits at the best Young talent in the country (Heeney and Mills). Let's be honest, its never been an even playing field

What started out as an intention to 'establish' the new clubs into the market has become a juggernaut. System is way out of balance.

[Teflon]

Its very simple.

They 'out quality us' pure and simple -cry all we like about how they got em, but we simply dont stack up in the younger talent quality stakes yet.

We have had some good older players hanging around, helping us beat up sides at Etihad but when it matters (and it mattered to Sydney last night) we dont have anywhere near the gear for top 8 let alone top 4.

Our midfield was found pedestrian and our backline is held together by Fisher/Dempster (old).

We got our 10 wins or whatever but make no mistake unless we find away to massively up that midfield and backs quality we are destined for 'middle of the road Tigers/North territory' (who are also kidding themselves).

ok - rather than cry, deny and make smart alec remarks - how about you actually face the facts?

you asked for it:

them
under 23
lloyd/mills/heeney/hewett/cunningham/papley/nankervis/allir = 8
under 50 games
heeney/towers/mills/hewett/papley/allir/nankervis/naismith/richards = 9

Us
under 23 = 7
under 50 games = 7

Try and dismiss/rationalise that to suit your emotional bias.

Still misleading?

But but but but they have more players in the middle you say. Yes I know that which is one of the reasons why they are better.

But they still have MORE kids than us. So we cant use 'kids' as an easy excuse. They actually had 9 blokes under 50 games - we only had 7. They also had one MORE under 23 than us.

Add

We still have Armo/Savage/Robo/Steven/Hickey/Mav/Newnes/Gilbert as core middle aged players.

Despite the shrill denials on here - it is sobering.

[st.byron]

Its very simple.

They 'out quality us' pure and simple -cry all we like about how they got em, but we simply dont stack up in the younger talent quality stakes yet.

We have had some good older players hanging around, helping us beat up sides at Etihad but when it matters (and it mattered to Sydney last night) we dont have anywhere near the gear for top 8 let alone top 4.

Our midfield was found pedestrian and our backline is held together by Fisher/Dempster (old).

We got our 10 wins or whatever but make no mistake unless we find away to massively up that midfield and backs quality we are destined for 'middle of the road Tigers/North territory' (who are also kidding themselves).

Sobering

[Johnny Member]

I totally agree with Teflon. I've been saying it all year

But I don't think it's sobering. Its obvious and has been since Lyon left.

We won't contend again until we get a good core of very good player in that 100-200 game bracket.

The guys we have in that bracket now, are VFL standard realistically.

It won't be until the McCartins, Billings', Greshams etc. Are the ones in that bracket that we will be a chance. That's 2-3 years away. Until then it's all about devloping slowly but surely.

[CURLY]

Again gift us Buddy two seasons ago and the shoe is in the other foot. Everyone looks better when there teams flying.