Where were we, Sainters? Disappointing crowd.

[White Winmar]

What a disappointing turnout. 33,000. A home game and a chance to make some serious cash instead of having to pay our landlords for the privilege of playing. A game between a top side and premiership contender fighting for the double chance and a home final. The most exciting emerging side in the competition, trying to write its own fairytale with an unlikely finals berth. Both teams in red hot form. The saints had gone 8-3 in the previous eleven games, making them one of the form teams of the competition. McCartin, Bruce, Membrey, Steven, Gresham, Acres and Billings. All worth the price of admission. Our very exciting future on display.

A world first social initiative, inviting LGBTI people into the fold in a professional sporting event. It had attracted world wide attention. A week long media marketing blitz. No shortage of stories about the social significance of the game. The Winmars, Jason Ball, Sam Gilbert, and club officials were given plenty of air time. The build up was worthy of a final. The first half delivered some of the best football seen all year. It lived up to the hype. I'd rather forget the second half, but I digress.

I was expecting a crowd of 40,000 plus, not an unreasonable expectation, given what was at stake and the significance of the event. When I got there just before the first bounce, I was disappointed to see gaps in the crowd, especially on our wing on level one and on level two in general. I thought there may have been the usual entry crush fiasco that plagues Etihad (never seems to happen at the MCG), but no, by quarter time it was obvious that we just didn't turn up in any great numbers. Even Carlscum supporters turned up earlier this year for a largely meaningless game. 48,000, with the place packed to the rafters. Again, the vast majority at that game were scum supporters. Says a lot, doesn`t it?

What will it take to get us to games en masse? I haven't been able to get to many games this year because of work and travel commitments, but when I have, we've not even managed a "break even" crowd of 30,000. Why? We're exciting to watch, we've won plenty of games, especially at Etihad and we have 38,000 members. At times it has felt that we're outnumbered by the opposition, even by the dogs and north. What happened to the "cauldron" and fortress that Etihad was for us in the past? Which brings me to my last point. I sincerely hope our membership numbers are up next year. With the promise we have shown and the club in good hands, our form this year augurs well for the future. Even the dogs and north have 40,000 + members. We are trailing the field of Melbourne based clubs. Simply not good enough. We have the bayside and according to surveys, more than half a million supporters nation wide. Surely we could realistically convert those numbers into 50,000 members? 10% is realistic and entirely possible.

So next time we're in a match of the round type situation, I'd love to see us come out of the woodwork like Richmond, Carlscum and doper supporters do when they show the slightest signs of improvement. I know they are all bandwagon jumpers, but sometimes I wish we were too. Come on Sainters, let's show the rest of the comp and turn out en masse for the Lions game. We're almost certain to win and we can celebrate what, overall, has been a great year that has exceeded expectations. Let's start the 50,000 saints on the march campaign!

PS. Matthew Nicholls is an incompetent, egotistical, vengeful little c*nt! Surely the rest of his year should be spent in the bush and suburbs. As GT would've noted, Nicholls should've left his ego in his locker. I'm not an umpire basher, but his performance was just plainly embarrassing.

[mullet]

WW I think the train system is really having an effect. No trains between Caulfield and Moorabbin on the frankston line and I believe the Pakenham line was also effected.

Just imagine trying to get home and getting off trains on to buses etc, you wouldnt get home til 1am if you live in frankston.

I also think a lot of families steer clear of the city on a Saturday night as it can be a bit unruly.

[White Winmar]

Good points, Mullet, but I think our crowds have been generally disappointing this year. Last nigh of all nights, I would've thought we could've borrowed a line from the dopers, "whatever it takes". Nothing seems to have stopped our opposition's supporters from outnumbering us most weeks this year. It will be interesting to see how the crowds are next year, when we're expected to do well and the PT woes are no longer a factor.

[BackFromUSA]

I was shocked at the amount of regulars who were not there last night.

4 whole groups (families) - two that sit in front of us and two either side of us - all empty seats.

That has never happened before.

Lots of empty seats in front of us too that are normally filled.

[bigcarl]

Disappointing crowd, yes. It could have been really something before a full house when they dimmed the lights.

But really, what can you expect? The AFL has decided it's a TV game and you needn't leave your loungue chair to see every game.

[Trev from the Bush]

Been the same all year. Some of the excuses for non-attendance take me back to my primary school days. The most memorable note was scrawled in coloured pencil on a brown paper bag containing a kids lunch. "WET DAY"; simply put and effective. Doesn't pass muster or Saints supporters though. I was on duty for work but the rest of my crew went.

[kosifantutti]

I was shocked at the amount of regulars who were not there last night.

4 whole groups (families) - two that sit in front of us and two either side of us - all empty seats.

That has never happened before.

Lots of empty seats in front of us too that are normally filled.

Do you think they were put off by the Pride game or other factors?

On a positive note I bumped into someone I hadn't seen since I worked in Switzerland four years ago. He had a mild interest in footy at the time and was a dogs supporter. But there he was last night queuing for a Saints blanket, with his partner. And on Facebook it seems he was actually part of a group of eight non footy goers.

At the footy.... Yes the footy. Inaugural Pride match.

[aaron82]

I was trying to work out why are attendances are so low. I've been going for nearly 30 years and have attended most games this season. The trains are absolutely a reason especially when it's live on channel 7.

Last night was the first time I've thought why bother. Our players and club in general are working their backsides off and this is no reflection on them. Love our group of players. What concerns me is the cost of continually turning up to watch teams with significant advantages in salary cap, academy picks, free agents. It's not a level playing field at all.

The swans will make their 15 from 16 finals series this year. Them and the Giants won't miss very often in the next 20 years and will win flags. The cost of food, getting to a ground that is miles from Bayswater where I live and what is really making it tough the (in my view) worst year of umpiring. Our forwards can be hog tied and still no free. Can you imagine in a GF close game and the 3 50 metre penalties being paid. A lunatic supporter may loose it and Barry Hall an umpire.

Bottom line for me is the AFL is pricing me out of the game to watch a sport that is not even close to a level playing field. I'd rather go to the VFL at times to be honest

[Bluthy]

The reality is that some supporters won't go if they think we don't have a great chance at winning and we were playing Sydney. As we go up the ladder they crowds will come. YOu can call them band wagoners if you like but its just a reality with all clubs. Success on field = big crowds.

[saintspremiers]

At the members forum at the town hall a month or so ago there seemed a significant amount of negative sentiment towards the pride match.

I strongly believe given the low turnout that there was a bit of a member boycott of the game.

Very f****** sad and embarrassing if true, and the reason we needed the game and it to be an annual event until attitudes change.

To those that boycotted the game, I hope they know how high the suicide rate is amongst the LBGTIQ folk. That's just WRONG and needs to change. Every life is as valuable as the next regardless of orientation. And no, I'm not LBGTIQ.

[Toy Saint]

The reality is that some supporters won't go if they think we don't have a great chance at winning and we were playing Sydney. As we go up the ladder they crowds will come. YOu can call them band wagoners if you like but its just a reality with all clubs. Success on field = big crowds.

This just about sums it up. It's just human nature, fans like to feel like their team can win.

And sadly, the AFL know this. They need the maximum number of fans believing their team can win to be commercially seccessfull. With 65% of Australia's population in NSW and Sth East Queensland, they need there folk to believe their team can win.

So the AFL create all manor of advantages for teams in NSW & Qld. Their teams need to be winners to maximise interest, therefore maximising TV ratings and profits for that AFL and bonuses for it's staff.

Fans of the traditional Melbourne teams have 'built in' generations of club loyalty, and the AFL assume these fans will continue to turn up regardless of the teams lack of success.

But some of the traditional fans are human, they are losing interest. Their kids don't want to turn up to watch their team lose.

[sainters4eva]

I was trying to work out why are attendances are so low. I've been going for nearly 30 years and have attended most games this season. The trains are absolutely a reason especially when it's live on channel 7.

Last night was the first time I've thought why bother. Our players and club in general are working their backsides off and this is no reflection on them. Love our group of players. What concerns me is the cost of continually turning up to watch teams with significant advantages in salary cap, academy picks, free agents. It's not a level playing field at all.

The swans will make their 15 from 16 finals series this year. Them and the Giants won't miss very often in the next 20 years and will win flags. The cost of food, getting to a ground that is miles from Bayswater where I live and what is really making it tough the (in my view) worst year of umpiring. Our forwards can be hog tied and still no free. Can you imagine in a GF close game and the 3 50 metre penalties being paid. A lunatic supporter may loose it and Barry Hall an umpire.

Bottom line for me is the AFL is pricing me out of the game to watch a sport that is not even close to a level playing field. I'd rather go to the VFL at times to be honest

Couldn't agree more aaron

[Linton Lodger]

I was shocked at the amount of regulars who were not there last night.

4 whole groups (families) - two that sit in front of us and two either side of us - all empty seats.

That has never happened before.

Lots of empty seats in front of us too that are normally filled.

Is homophobia a factor?

[freely]

I was shocked at the amount of regulars who were not there last night.

4 whole groups (families) - two that sit in front of us and two either side of us - all empty seats.

That has never happened before.

Lots of empty seats in front of us too that are normally filled.

Is homophobia a factor?

Maybe for those particular families (can't know) but I doubt it for the attendance overall. I know half a dozen people personally who came to this game that haven't been to the football for years - one in fact who's never been before! But I think the fact you can now stream every game live must have an impact.

[Linton Lodger]

At the members forum at the town hall a month or so ago there seemed a significant amount of negative sentiment towards the pride match.

I strongly believe given the low turnout that there was a bit of a member boycott of the game.

Very f****** sad and embarrassing if true, and the reason we needed the game and it to be an annual event until attitudes change.

To those that boycotted the game, I hope they know how high the suicide rate is amongst the LBGTIQ folk. That's just WRONG and needs to change. Every life is as valuable as the next regardless of orientation. And no, I'm not LBGTIQ.

+1

Shameful and petty prejudices. There are far more important things to be concerned about in this day and age, than what people do in their bedrooms. You know, climate change, population density, our relationship with China, the fact that we are not yet ready to deal with a big incoming asteroid and the rise of religious fundamentalism. Yet we have people preoccupied with the sexual orientation of other people. Get serious and wake up.

[prwilkinson]

I was trying to work out why are attendances are so low. I've been going for nearly 30 years and have attended most games this season. The trains are absolutely a reason especially when it's live on channel 7.

Last night was the first time I've thought why bother. Our players and club in general are working their backsides off and this is no reflection on them. Love our group of players. What concerns me is the cost of continually turning up to watch teams with significant advantages in salary cap, academy picks, free agents. It's not a level playing field at all.

The swans will make their 15 from 16 finals series this year. Them and the Giants won't miss very often in the next 20 years and will win flags. The cost of food, getting to a ground that is miles from Bayswater where I live and what is really making it tough the (in my view) worst year of umpiring. Our forwards can be hog tied and still no free. Can you imagine in a GF close game and the 3 50 metre penalties being paid. A lunatic supporter may loose it and Barry Hall an umpire.

Bottom line for me is the AFL is pricing me out of the game to watch a sport that is not even close to a level playing field. I'd rather go to the VFL at times to be honest

I think plenty of rusted on footy fans around Melbourne town agree you with mate. We're always thought of last.

[Moods]

At the members forum at the town hall a month or so ago there seemed a significant amount of negative sentiment towards the pride match.

I strongly believe given the low turnout that there was a bit of a member boycott of the game.

Very f****** sad and embarrassing if true, and the reason we needed the game and it to be an annual event until attitudes change.

To those that boycotted the game, I hope they know how high the suicide rate is amongst the LBGTIQ folk. That's just WRONG and needs to change. Every life is as valuable as the next regardless of orientation. And no, I'm not LBGTIQ.

+1

Shameful and petty prejudices. There are far more important things to be concerned about in this day and age, than what people do in their bedrooms. You know, climate change, population density, our relationship with China, the fact that we are not yet ready to deal with a big incoming asteroid and the rise of religious fundamentalism. Yet we have people preoccupied with the sexual orientation of other people. Get serious and wake up.

I think we're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here. I cannot imagine ANY supporter of any club caring whether it was a pride game or any other game. The fact is, we pull quite poorly against interstate teams. I actually reckon 33,000 against an interstate team is very good, and ppl expecting 40k plus just because it was the 'Pride' game are kidding themselves. Probably 27-30k in normal instances, and a few extra because of the occasion is about right.

For the record I couldn't make it and I consider myself a regular, but certainly didn't 'boycott' the game.

[SemperFidelis]

I was shocked at the amount of regulars who were not there last night.

4 whole groups (families) - two that sit in front of us and two either side of us - all empty seats.

That has never happened before.

Lots of empty seats in front of us too that are normally filled.

Is homophobia a factor?

Maybe for those particular families (can't know) but I doubt it for the attendance overall. I know half a dozen people personally who came to this game that haven't been to the football for years - one in fact who's never been before! But I think the fact you can now stream every game live must have an impact.

Interestingly, around me all the usual families with kids were there. A few of the blokes who come in twos were conspicuously absent.

The most disappointing moment from my point of view was when one of the older ducks behind me (who'd gathered up a poultice of glow bands and flags) tried to give one the the flags to a ring in family who seemed to have upgraded themselves into the seats of some absent regulars. The Dad flat out refused to have his kid hold a small rainbow flag.

Sad.

[saynta]

I was shocked at the amount of regulars who were not there last night.

4 whole groups (families) - two that sit in front of us and two either side of us - all empty seats.

That has never happened before.

Lots of empty seats in front of us too that are normally filled.

Well, maybe some families don't think the footy is the appropriate forum to be promoting some social issues.

I don't have a problem with yesterday's theme , but overall I think footy's for footy. Let others worry about social issues.

[carn_sainter]

I was trying to work out why are attendances are so low. I've been going for nearly 30 years and have attended most games this season. The trains are absolutely a reason especially when it's live on channel 7.

Last night was the first time I've thought why bother. Our players and club in general are working their backsides off and this is no reflection on them. Love our group of players. What concerns me is the cost of continually turning up to watch teams with significant advantages in salary cap, academy picks, free agents. It's not a level playing field at all.

The swans will make their 15 from 16 finals series this year. Them and the Giants won't miss very often in the next 20 years and will win flags. The cost of food, getting to a ground that is miles from Bayswater where I live and what is really making it tough the (in my view) worst year of umpiring. Our forwards can be hog tied and still no free. Can you imagine in a GF close game and the 3 50 metre penalties being paid. A lunatic supporter may loose it and Barry Hall an umpire.

Bottom line for me is the AFL is pricing me out of the game to watch a sport that is not even close to a level playing field. I'd rather go to the VFL at times to be honest

It's pretty easy for me to get to games and I really like watching the saints too.

But I agree completely about the umpiring! I have no desire to consume afl footy outside of saints games and even then, I sometimes think it's not worth it to go and support the afl competition. I've attended all of our Melbourne games this year but a little reluctantly.

And the umpiring is a massive part of it. Massive. More than just the umpiring, the rules themselves...how rules can change from one week to the next or be 'enforced' for two weeks and then forgotten about? It just drives me nuts.

I honestly thought about throwing in the towel when Waite got that free in the goalsquare against Hickey a couple of weeks ago.

It's just crap.

The other thing that is making me want to give it away is the AFL selling itself to Crownbet and every other gambling company out there, getting 13 and 14 year old kids hooked on the fun of gambling and facilitating all of the awful consequences where gambling is normal...especially with all of the blokey language they use as if it is a rite of passage for a man.

Honestly, as an organisation I reckon they ought to be ashamed.

[mcadam05]

The game the night before only got 35000 , I just think people are tried of how the game's played

[saynta]

I was trying to work out why are attendances are so low. I've been going for nearly 30 years and have attended most games this season. The trains are absolutely a reason especially when it's live on channel 7.

Last night was the first time I've thought why bother. Our players and club in general are working their backsides off and this is no reflection on them. Love our group of players. What concerns me is the cost of continually turning up to watch teams with significant advantages in salary cap, academy picks, free agents. It's not a level playing field at all.

The swans will make their 15 from 16 finals series this year. Them and the Giants won't miss very often in the next 20 years and will win flags. The cost of food, getting to a ground that is miles from Bayswater where I live and what is really making it tough the (in my view) worst year of umpiring. Our forwards can be hog tied and still no free. Can you imagine in a GF close game and the 3 50 metre penalties being paid. A lunatic supporter may loose it and Barry Hall an umpire.

Bottom line for me is the AFL is pricing me out of the game to watch a sport that is not even close to a level playing field. I'd rather go to the VFL at times to be honest

It's pretty easy for me to get to games and I really like watching the saints too.

But I agree completely about the umpiring! I have no desire to consume afl footy outside of saints games and even then, I sometimes think it's not worth it to go and support the afl competition. I've attended all of our Melbourne games this year but a little reluctantly.

And the umpiring is a massive part of it. Massive. More than just the umpiring, the rules themselves...how rules can change from one week to the next or be 'enforced' for two weeks and then forgotten about? It just drives me nuts.

I honestly thought about throwing in the towel when Waite got that free in the goalsquare against Hickey a couple of weeks ago.

It's just crap.

The other thing that is making me want to give it away is the AFL selling itself to Crownbet and every other gambling company out there, getting 13 and 14 year old kids hooked on the fun of gambling and facilitating all of the awful consequences where gambling is normal...especially with all of the blokey language they use as if it is a rite of passage for a man.

Honestly, as an organisation I reckon they ought to be ashamed.

Feel the same about the gambling.

It's got to the stage now when the betting is resuling in NRL games being rigged or thrown.

Only a matter of time before someone is caught doing the same in the AFL.

To my mind the maggots should already be under suspicion.


I couldn't believe it when ads came on promoting betting on the olympic games ffs.

[Griggsy]

On screen it sounded like a fair few swan supporters rocked up too given how audible the cheers for Aliir Aliir were whenever he touched the ball.

Slightly off topic, what were the cheers for him for? Played a solid game but don't think it was cheer every time kind of good.

[loris]

I was trying to work out why are attendances are so low. I've been going for nearly 30 years and have attended most games this season. The trains are absolutely a reason especially when it's live on channel 7.

Last night was the first time I've thought why bother. Our players and club in general are working their backsides off and this is no reflection on them. Love our group of players. What concerns me is the cost of continually turning up to watch teams with significant advantages in salary cap, academy picks, free agents. It's not a level playing field at all.

The swans will make their 15 from 16 finals series this year. Them and the Giants won't miss very often in the next 20 years and will win flags. The cost of food, getting to a ground that is miles from Bayswater where I live and what is really making it tough the (in my view) worst year of umpiring. Our forwards can be hog tied and still no free. Can you imagine in a GF close game and the 3 50 metre penalties being paid. A lunatic supporter may loose it and Barry Hall an umpire.

Bottom line for me is the AFL is pricing me out of the game to watch a sport that is not even close to a level playing field. I'd rather go to the VFL at times to be honest

It's pretty easy for me to get to games and I really like watching the saints too.

But I agree completely about the umpiring! I have no desire to consume afl footy outside of saints games and even then, I sometimes think it's not worth it to go and support the afl competition. I've attended all of our Melbourne games this year but a little reluctantly.

And the umpiring is a massive part of it. Massive. More than just the umpiring, the rules themselves...how rules can change from one week to the next or be 'enforced' for two weeks and then forgotten about? It just drives me nuts.

I honestly thought about throwing in the towel when Waite got that free in the goalsquare against Hickey a couple of weeks ago.

It's just crap.

The other thing that is making me want to give it away is the AFL selling itself to Crownbet and every other gambling company out there, getting 13 and 14 year old kids hooked on the fun of gambling and facilitating all of the awful consequences where gambling is normal...especially with all of the blokey language they use as if it is a rite of passage for a man.

Honestly, as an organisation I reckon they ought to be ashamed.

Feel the same about the gambling.

It's got to the stage now when the betting is resuling in NRL games being rigged or thrown.

Only a matter of time before someone is caught doing the same in the AFL.

To my mind the maggots should already be under suspicion.


I couldn't believe it when ads came on promoting betting on the olympic games ffs.

Agree about the concerns over the nauseous promotion of gambling.

[SemperFidelis]

On screen it sounded like a fair few swan supporters rocked up too given how audible the cheers for Aliir Aliir were whenever he touched the ball.

Slightly off topic, what were the cheers for him for? Played a solid game but don't think it was cheer every time kind of good.

Cult figure, pure and simple. They've absolutely embraced him.

And given the raw material, that's understandable!