Hurley!!!!!

[Con Gorozidis]

Saturday night just proves even more how much we need Hurley, even with JC coming in!!!!!

Pres, easy to bring stuff up in 6 months time!!!!!

Should enter politics, get a Combover and state the obvious Donald!!!!!

Thats not such a big call. 16 clubs could use Hurley. Only one will get him. Its most likely to be Essendon IMHO. All he has to do is speak. That wont happen until late August. If it is St.kilda we can kiss our first round pick goodbye. If we make him go to the AFL or courts to get his contract void it really means that we dont want him.

I would be more than happy to give up the pick.

Time for us to get aggressive and bag a couple of significant trades. We dont have time to wait for a young player to come on. We have about 6 of them already.

Time to be patient imo.
Jumping the gun and thinking you are closer than you are can be a fool's paradise. Ask Carlton, Tigers and Port.

Im not being impatient just realistic. We didnt take Bontempelli and we didn't take Petracca.

Its not me living in a fools paradise. Our ability to pick a smokie out of the draft next year comes down to a one in a hundred chance. We hope Paddy Carlisle Goddard and Billings will give us value, I am happy to be patient.

If we are not as close as we might think how will patience and late first round picks help?

We are going to loose Riewoldt Fisher Montagna and Dempster by the time these boys come on. If they come on. These four will go down as club greats.

Patience? I think its time to consider probability.

i expect we are chasing top 4 by 2018. That wont bring us any closer to a top draft pick from here.

You tell me how thst might be sustained if it is even achieved.

I wonder if anyone is prepared to trade a gun midfielder for a young one that comes with a side order of patience.

Get aggressive now!

Nothing you said makes any logical sense but ok.
You think a pick 10 is a 'one in a hundred'?
What does 'get aggressive' mean?
Surely we are looking for the best deals every year?
Are you saying sometimes we deliberately look for poor deals?
I mean what does it mean? Surely every year we get best available with resources available?

[Zed]

I haven't seen the Saints mentioned in recent mentions of possible clubs for Hurley in the press. As much as we might want him it doesn't appear the interest is mutual ?

As for recruiting gun mids from other clubs, I do wonder if in 12 - 24 months it will be a moot point?. Acres , Gresh developing nicely. With a bit of luck Billings may click next year, and I haven't given up on Lonie and Sinclair following in Jack Steven's footsteps in the next 2-3 years. Sure, we still need to be seen as a player in the market, but no need to throw around the biggest bag of cash for mids imho as the crunch is coming in our key defensive stocks and JC will be handy but he is just one layer and we need another ready made quality KPD if we are going to be a serious contender from 2018 onwards

[Zed]

I haven't seen the Saints mentioned in recent mentions of possible clubs for Hurley in the press. As much as we might want him it doesn't appear the interest is mutual ?

As for recruiting gun mids from other clubs, I do wonder if in 12 - 24 months it will be a moot point?. Acres , Gresh developing nicely. With a bit of luck Billings may click next year, and I haven't given up on Lonie and Sinclair following in Jack Steven's footsteps in the next 2-3 years. Sure, we still need to be seen as a player in the market, but no need to throw around the biggest bag of cash for mids imho as the crunch is coming in our key defensive stocks and JC will be handy but he is just one layer and we need another ready made quality KPD if we are going to be a serious contender from 2018 onwards

[longtimesaint]

I haven't seen the Saints mentioned in recent mentions of possible clubs for Hurley in the press. As much as we might want him it doesn't appear the interest is mutual ?

As for recruiting gun mids from other clubs, I do wonder if in 12 - 24 months it will be a moot point?. Acres , Gresh developing nicely. With a bit of luck Billings may click next year, and I haven't given up on Lonie and Sinclair following in Jack Steven's footsteps in the next 2-3 years. Sure, we still need to be seen as a player in the market, but no need to throw around the biggest bag of cash for mids imho as the crunch is coming in our key defensive stocks and JC will be handy but he is just one layer and we need another ready made quality KPD if we are going to be a serious contender from 2018 onwards

It could be we are playing the cards close to our chest and being cool while negotiating in the background.
I think they may have been too obvious with Carlisle so a quiet approach would be good.

[MC Gusto]

With all the recent saints / Hurley news I get a really sick feeling in my stomach that dorodo will take us to the cleaners again. Let's be honest he has the form. He's out smarted, out negotiated and duped us on a number of occasions - why should this time be any different?

And before you say but for pick 5 and a second rounder we got Carlisle and gresh...which is true...don't for one minute believe that dorodo didn't know about the coke video.
Also do not understimate the fact Carlilse said he wanted out, wanted us and was out of contract.


We were skunked.

[ctqs]

With all the recent saints / Hurley news I get a really sick feeling in my stomach that dorodo will take us to the cleaners again. Let's be honest he has the form. He's out smarted, out negotiated and duped us on a number of occasions - why should this time be any different?

And before you say but for pick 5 and a second rounder we got Carlisle and gresh...which is true...don't for one minute believe that dorodo didn't know about the coke video.
Also do not understimate the fact Carlilse said he wanted out, wanted us and was out of contract.


We were skunked.

Nah, Essendon was the one who was skunked. They said they wanted a straight swap. We said no. We got our way. Don't believe the hype.

[MC Gusto]

Mate they sent pick 44 and Carlisle in exchange for pick 5 and a player from the swans. It's not hype it's real

[Johnny Member]

With all the recent saints / Hurley news I get a really sick feeling in my stomach that dorodo will take us to the cleaners again. Let's be honest he has the form. He's out smarted, out negotiated and duped us on a number of occasions - why should this time be any different?

And before you say but for pick 5 and a second rounder we got Carlisle and gresh...which is true...don't for one minute believe that dorodo didn't know about the coke video.
Also do not understimate the fact Carlilse said he wanted out, wanted us and was out of contract.


We were skunked.

I don't buy the 'outsmarted' bit.

We wanted Carlisle. We couldn't get him for free.

The only way we were outsmarted is if you believe Essendon would have baulked and not put him in the pre-season draft and instead just rolled over and given him to us for free. Or if you believe that Hawthorn wouldn't have done a deal to get him.

For mine, both scenarios were very unlikely.


It really comes down to this - what did we want more, Carlisle or Pick 6? If Essendon just roll over and let him walk for nothing, we would have had both. But that is very, very unlikely that they would have.

Realistically, the best we could have hoped for would have been to keep pick 6 and get Carlisle, but lose a very good young player. In not sure that's any better than losing pick 6 though.

[ctqs]

Mate they sent pick 44 and Carlisle in exchange for pick 5 and a player from the swans. It's not hype it's real

My apologies, mate. I stand corrected. We did get pick 14 as part of the trade but that was from the Swans.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-10-2 ... le-a-saint

"The Saints will acquire the recently turned 24-year-old Carlisle and the Swans’ pick No.14 in exchange for pick No.5 (to Essendon) and No.24 (to Sydney). The deal also involves an exchange of picks and players between Essendon and Sydney."

[Johnny Member]

So didn't we end up with Carlisle and Gresham, for Pick 6 and Pick 24?

On face value right now, that's a pretty good result for us I'd have thought.

[Johnny Member]

I also saw that we got Hickey and Membrey for Goddard.

Another good result for us I reckon.

[stkfc1]

I also saw that we got Hickey and Membrey for Goddard.

Another good result for us I reckon.

Just swap 'good' for 'unbelievable' and you're on the money.

[saintsRrising]

I also saw that we got Hickey and Membrey for Goddard.

Another good result for us I reckon.

Yes unbelievable is correct as we gained Membrey as a Free Agent.
Dylan was also a FA. Weller was a rookie pick up after GC delisted him.

Dal and BJ gained us 5 picks between them. Hickey, Lee, White, Wright and one other-Murdoch I think from memory.

[BigMart]

Are we sure that's what Dal and BJ netted us??? I thought Membrey was totally seperate and was just a delisted free agent?

You do realise that BJ has been gone for a fair few years now prior to this year, Tom had played about 20 odd games and BJ has been a B&F and twice Runner up in 60 games.

In the long run Tom may well prove valuable... But as it stands, you can't discount what BJ has done at Essendon.

I also thought we got Longer with the Dal Compo??

[The_President]

Are we sure that's what Dal and BJ netted us??? I thought Membrey was totally seperate and was just a delisted free agent?

You do realise that BJ has been gone for a fair few years now prior to this year, Tom had played about 20 odd games and BJ has been a B&F and twice Runner up in 60 games.

In the long run Tom may well prove valuable... But as it stands, you can't discount what BJ has done at Essendon.

I also thought we got Longer with the Dal Compo??

Two picks in the 20's for Longer and 44(?)
Pick 44(?) then went to GWS to get Bruce (they didn't use the pick)
Weller, Membrey & Roberton were all freebies.

Originally thought we got mugged in the Carlise trade, but Gresham is proving me wrong.

[Rambling Mind]

He would look fantastic in red, black and white.

That said, if our negotiations for Carlisle taught us anything, it is he wont come cheap

[CQ SAINT]

Saturday night just proves even more how much we need Hurley, even with JC coming in!!!!!

Pres, easy to bring stuff up in 6 months time!!!!!

Should enter politics, get a Combover and state the obvious Donald!!!!!

Thats not such a big call. 16 clubs could use Hurley. Only one will get him. Its most likely to be Essendon IMHO. All he has to do is speak. That wont happen until late August. If it is St.kilda we can kiss our first round pick goodbye. If we make him go to the AFL or courts to get his contract void it really means that we dont want him.

I would be more than happy to give up the pick.

Time for us to get aggressive and bag a couple of significant trades. We dont have time to wait for a young player to come on. We have about 6 of them already.

Time to be patient imo.
Jumping the gun and thinking you are closer than you are can be a fool's paradise. Ask Carlton, Tigers and Port.

Im not being impatient just realistic. We didnt take Bontempelli and we didn't take Petracca.

Its not me living in a fools paradise. Our ability to pick a smokie out of the draft next year comes down to a one in a hundred chance. We hope Paddy Carlisle Goddard and Billings will give us value, I am happy to be patient.

If we are not as close as we might think how will patience and late first round picks help?

We are going to loose Riewoldt Fisher Montagna and Dempster by the time these boys come on. If they come on. These four will go down as club greats.

Patience? I think its time to consider probability.

i expect we are chasing top 4 by 2018. That wont bring us any closer to a top draft pick from here.

You tell me how thst might be sustained if it is even achieved.

I wonder if anyone is prepared to trade a gun midfielder for a young one that comes with a side order of patience.

Get aggressive now!

Nothing you said makes any logical sense but ok.
You think a pick 10 is a 'one in a hundred'?
What does 'get aggressive' mean?
Surely we are looking for the best deals every year?
Are you saying sometimes we deliberately look for poor deals?
I mean what does it mean? Surely every year we get best available with resources available?

We have lots of salary cap space. We have been saving up. So I guess we have been punting on potential with our trades and looking for 10 year players with our picks.

We have been trading established players, deepening our list and stocking up on draft picks for 6 years. Webster Newnes Ross and Dunstan are the only players in that stock that have played 50 games or more. All solid performers but none have set the world on fire.

Billings and McCartin are our top 5 picks. Injury and form have been a concern but they are both worthy of patience. The 2 guys that were picked after them are both in rebuild sides very similar to us and are performing very well already, you might say instantly. Our 2 boys unfortunately have issues.

Gresham and Jack Steven are probably the 2 best picks we have had in a decade. I think there was about 75 picks between them. Hence the 1 in 100 comment.

Cripps Lynch and McEvoy were good picks werent they but we all know how that ended.

Now, our draft chances are very limited and wont improve our list much in the next 2 years.

On the other hand Roberton Membrey Weller Bruce Hickey Longer ànd Savage (who collectively have made the biggest impact in the last 2 years on our win loss ratio) were all drafted by someone else and they were all bargains but not the best available.

Carlisle and Freeman are yet to play but were great acquisitions based on our needs. More patience required.

We are still very reliant on Montagna Dempster Fisher and Riewoldt. Without them we would be stuffed. Patience wont help here.

Armo has peaked and only Jack Steven can win, carry, and clear the ball in an elite fashion. Joey is next best but is actually more effective that Steven.

Steven is less than 70% effective with his 28 average disposals. This has not changed much over his career. His kicking is not getting better his endurance and speed is.

Jack Newnes is next most experienced mid. He averages about 20 effective disposals a week. Basically the same as Steven Montagna Armo and Ross.

Newnes is about 75% efficient and this hasnt changed much over 80 games. It seems (at least with our list) that disposal efficiency rarely gets better with experience. We have some very good athletes in the side but we lack a genuine superstar midfielder and we are poor by foot.

Billings should be feeling a lot of pressure. His reputation as a junior was outstanding. His stats are good considering the opportunities he has had, he is a natural footballer and he averages 20 disposals, which he seems to get without a great deal of effort from wing/half forward but he has been unlucky with injury.

What is frightening about him is his disposal efficiency is poor and it appears that that doesnt improve no matter how patient you are. He has been very poor at kicking for goal and his body hasn't allowed him to apply physical pressure so far. Im not sure he is going to be our next gun mid.

What do I mean by aggressive. I probably mean that we have filled all our vacancies for long term project players and our 4 most proven players are soon to retire.

We need to raid some elite kicking midfield talent now. May be im wrong I dont know. Hurley would be nice too. Dempster Roberton and Gilbert arent tall enough and are more effective in other roles.

Fisher is awesome but he has had his day. I believe we are as close as we get might for a couple of years. While we still have Roo and Joey.

I could be wrong. I hope so.

[CQ SAINT]

Saturday night just proves even more how much we need Hurley, even with JC coming in!!!!!

Pres, easy to bring stuff up in 6 months time!!!!!

Should enter politics, get a Combover and state the obvious Donald!!!!!

Thats not such a big call. 16 clubs could use Hurley. Only one will get him. Its most likely to be Essendon IMHO. All he has to do is speak. That wont happen until late August. If it is St.kilda we can kiss our first round pick goodbye. If we make him go to the AFL or courts to get his contract void it really means that we dont want him.

I would be more than happy to give up the pick.

Time for us to get aggressive and bag a couple of significant trades. We dont have time to wait for a young player to come on. We have about 6 of them already.

Time to be patient imo.
Jumping the gun and thinking you are closer than you are can be a fool's paradise. Ask Carlton, Tigers and Port.

Im not being impatient just realistic. We didnt take Bontempelli and we didn't take Petracca.

Its not me living in a fools paradise. Our ability to pick a smokie out of the draft next year comes down to a one in a hundred chance. We hope Paddy Carlisle Goddard and Billings will give us value, I am happy to be patient.

If we are not as close as we might think how will patience and late first round picks help?

We are going to loose Riewoldt Fisher Montagna and Dempster by the time these boys come on. If they come on. These four will go down as club greats.

Patience? I think its time to consider probability.

i expect we are chasing top 4 by 2018. That wont bring us any closer to a top draft pick from here.

You tell me how thst might be sustained if it is even achieved.

I wonder if anyone is prepared to trade a gun midfielder for a young one that comes with a side order of patience.

Get aggressive now!

Nothing you said makes any logical sense but ok.
You think a pick 10 is a 'one in a hundred'?
What does 'get aggressive' mean?
Surely we are looking for the best deals every year?
Are you saying sometimes we deliberately look for poor deals?
I mean what does it mean? Surely every year we get best available with resources available?

We have lots of salary cap space. We have been saving up. So I guess we have been punting on potential with our trades and looking for 10 year players with our picks.

We have been trading established players, deepening our list and stocking up on draft picks for 6 years. Webster Newnes Ross and Dunstan are the only players in that stock that have played 50 games or more. All solid performers but none have set the world on fire.

Billings and McCartin are our top 5 picks. Injury and form have been a concern but they are both worthy of patience. The 2 guys that were picked after them are both in rebuild sides very similar to us and are performing very well already, you might say instantly. Our 2 boys unfortunately have issues.

Gresham and Jack Steven are probably the 2 best picks we have had in a decade. I think there was about 75 picks between them. Hence the 1 in 100 comment.

Cripps Lynch and McEvoy were good picks werent they but we all know how that ended.

Now, our draft chances are very limited and wont improve our list much in the next 2 years.

On the other hand Roberton Membrey Weller Bruce Hickey Longer ànd Savage (who collectively have made the biggest impact in the last 2 years on our win loss ratio) were all drafted by someone else and they were all bargains but not the best available.

Carlisle and Freeman are yet to play but were great acquisitions based on our needs. More patience required.

We are still very reliant on Montagna Dempster Fisher and Riewoldt. Without them we would be stuffed. Patience wont help here.

Armo has peaked and only Jack Steven can win, carry, and clear the ball in an elite fashion. Joey is next best but is actually more effective that Steven.

Steven is less than 70% effective with his 28 average disposals. This has not changed much over his career. His kicking is not getting better his endurance and speed is.

Jack Newnes is next most experienced mid. He averages about 20 effective disposals a week. Basically the same as Steven Montagna Armo and Ross.

Newnes is about 75% efficient and this hasnt changed much over 80 games. It seems (at least with our list) that disposal efficiency rarely gets better with experience. We have some very good athletes in the side but we lack a genuine superstar midfielder and we are poor by foot.

Billings should be feeling a lot of pressure. His reputation as a junior was outstanding. His stats are good considering the opportunities he has had, he is a natural footballer and he averages 20 disposals, which he seems to get without a great deal of effort from wing/half forward but he has been unlucky with injury.

What is frightening about him is his disposal efficiency is poor and it appears that that doesnt improve no matter how patient you are. He has been very poor at kicking for goal and his body hasn't allowed him to apply physical pressure so far. Im not sure he is going to be our next gun mid.

What do I mean by aggressive. I probably mean that we have filled all our vacancies for long term project players and our 4 most proven players are soon to retire.

We need to raid some elite kicking midfield talent now. May be im wrong I dont know. Hurley would be nice too. Dempster Roberton and Gilbert arent tall enough and are more effective in other roles.

Fisher is awesome but he has had his day. I believe we are as close as we get might for a couple of years. While we still have Roo and Joey.

I could be wrong. I hope so.

[Jacks Back]

Lloyd on footy classified last night said that IF Hurley goes the druggies would want a player(s) in return and not just some gop's.

[longtimesaint]

Lloyd on footy classified last night said that IF Hurley goes the druggies would want a player(s) in return and not just some gop's.

If Hurley wants out do Essendon have a lot of bargaining power?

[Jacks Back]

Lloyd on footy classified last night said that IF Hurley goes the druggies would want a player(s) in return and not just some gop's.

If Hurley wants out do Essendon have a lot of bargaining power?

Hopefully not but you know how these things happen. Most players try and look after the club.

[prwilkinson]

Is he out of contract?

[Ross who?]

Is he out of contract?

He is contracted for next year.

[Ross who?]

Lloyd on footy classified last night said that IF Hurley goes the druggies would want a player(s) in return and not just some gop's.

Yeah, he said an Alex Rance type. Looks like the ex-players are on something too!

[desertsaint]

doggies in the box seat apparently.