Thoughts on Bruce as 2nd Ruck

[Moods]

Curious what others think. For mine Bruce is a fwd and nothing else. He goes into the ruck to give Hickey a chop out by virtue of his heigt and nothing else. I watch him in the ruck every week and he gets slaughtered, monstered in fact. I actually feel sorry for him. All our mids can do is rove to the opposition - particularly at centre bounces. Can he be converted into some sort of ruckman, or do we have to just make do? What other options do we have? The top teams appear to have a genuine back up ruckman, Hawks have 2, Sydney have 2 once Tippett is back, GWS have 2. THoughts?

[Saintberra]

I'd imagine that if we were to get a Merchbank/Hurley/another KPD that Carlisle would replace Bruce in that role

[bigcarl]

Problem is this. If we play McCartin, Bruce and Members up forward, which I like, how do you fit in a second ruck?

Also aware of the need to give Hickey a chop out from time to time. We don't want to leave too much to too few in any position. Next year hopefully Carlisle can fill the void with occasional help from Bruce.

[The_President]

I'd imagine that if we were to get a Merchbank/Hurley/another KPD that Carlisle would replace Bruce in that role

How tall is Goddard?

[shrodes]

I think it's a really good question. Our forward line is so big with Paddy and Bruce that playing a second ruckman like Pierce or Longer would be tough. Would be good if Pierce could come on as a bit of a utility, play back / forward in between stints in the ruck, and put Hickey forward or for a rest on the bench. I don't believe Bruce is a good option in the ruck, but he's probably the best / only option for us with our current team composition.

[bigcarl]

I'd imagine that if we were to get a Merchbank/Hurley/another KPD that Carlisle would replace Bruce in that role

How tall is Goddard?

Good point. He's 196cm and maybe still growing.

[CQ SAINT]

Curious what others think. For mine Bruce is a fwd and nothing else. He goes into the ruck to give Hickey a chop out by virtue of his heigt and nothing else. I watch him in the ruck every week and he gets slaughtered, monstered in fact. I actually feel sorry for him. All our mids can do is rove to the opposition - particularly at centre bounces. Can he be converted into some sort of ruckman, or do we have to just make do? What other options do we have? The top teams appear to have a genuine back up ruckman, Hawks have 2, Sydney have 2 once Tippett is back, GWS have 2. THoughts?

Carlisle will 2nd ruck and push back. The mids will play shut down and Hickey will rest on the bench. Roberton Gilbert and Dempster will cover the key defensive roles while Carlisle rucks. Lewis Jason and Billy are only there for injury insurance.

Hickey is a gun and Carlisle is a solid back up.

[Legendary]

Carlisle is a handy ruckman.

I'm also surprised they haven't thrown Paddy in there.

We do lose something when Hickey isn't at the bounce.

[Saints43]

He's a hopeless ruckman. But I don't want to play two genuine ruckman either (unless the other one can actually play the game like Hickey can). Would be good if whoever fills in the second ruck role could occasionally break even...

[saynta]

Carlisle is a handy ruckman.

I'm also surprised they haven't thrown Paddy in there.

We do lose something when Hickey isn't at the bounce.

You don't use a champion racehourse to pull a milkcart.

[Moods]

Paddy too small for mine - he's smaller than Bruce. I tend to agree with Saynta, keep our young stars away from the ruck. We would never throw Roo in there. I wasn't aware that Varlisle could ruck. I know he's a big lug of a bloke, but I didn't think he was a ruckman. Funny to think that 10yrs ago 2 x rucks were played, both off the interchange and they rotated on and off.

[CQ SAINT]

[quote="Moods"]Paddy too small for mine - he's smaller than Bruce. I tend to agree with Saynta, keep our young stars away from the ruck. We would never throw Roo in there. I wasn't aware that Varlisle could ruck. I know he's a big lug of a bloke, but I didn't think he was a ruckman. Funny to think that 10yrs ago 2 x rucks were played, both off the interchange and they rotated on and off.[/quote)

Carlisle isnt great. He just has to do what Hickey does., that is, he just determines where the ball will land. Whether or jot he wins the ruck.

[supersaints]

Curious what others think. For mine Bruce is a fwd and nothing else. He goes into the ruck to give Hickey a chop out by virtue of his heigt and nothing else. I watch him in the ruck every week and he gets slaughtered, monstered in fact. I actually feel sorry for him. All our mids can do is rove to the opposition - particularly at centre bounces. Can he be converted into some sort of ruckman, or do we have to just make do? What other options do we have? The top teams appear to have a genuine back up ruckman, Hawks have 2, Sydney have 2 once Tippett is back, GWS have 2. THoughts?

Agree with your thoughts, Bruce ain't no ruck and we get slaughtered while he if off the ground
. I would think the club may believe Lewis will have the ability to ruck and drop in the forward line.

We could carry two ruckmen as mobile as Hickey and Pierce IMO. I believe that if Stanley was more consistent he would. he is playing that role as he does at Geelong, were just after a more consistent version
Carlise can ruck a bit so that may help us out in the meantime.
There were noises that interchange was going to keep reducing over the comming seasons This may almost force teams to find a second mobile ruck who can rest awhile forward or back depending on the game dynamics.

[magnifisaint]

About as good as Gresham.

[borderbarry]

They should try something like this at least once this season/

Fwd..... L. Pierce. Paddy. Membrey
HFwd... Weller. Bruce. Billing


Roo on the wing.

[Mr Magic]

They should try something like this at least once this season/

Fwd..... L. Pierce. Paddy. Membrey
HFwd... Weller. Bruce. Billing


Roo on the wing.

I reckon that line up is too slow and doesn't offer enough defensive pressure.
I think the only way another ruckman gets in the team is if 1 of Roo, Bruce or McCartin is out.
I can see when Roo eventually retires that Bruce could move up the ground and play the 'Roo wing role' making a spot for a mobile ruckman on the forward line (Pierce?)

[To the top]

Where does this presumption that Carlisle will ruck come from?

He was recruited as a key defender because we only had Fisher and the novice Goddard.

So, why the hell would you even consider rucking him?

It makes as much sense as rucking Bruce.

The simple facts are that we have 3 ruckmen on our List, with both Longer and Pierce re-signed in recent weeks.

Longer has had a terrible year for a multitude of reasons - but was a high Draft Pick recruited from elsewhere so my expectation is that the rucking duties will resolve to Hickey and Longer.

Pierce is a "learner" and the back up.

Look at the ages of Hickey, Longer and Pierce (and the number of games they have played) because they all have their futures in front of them - so we expect significant improvement with experience.

No doubt Hickey is currently the most agile (and he was by a long shot even when we had McEvoy).

[bigcarl]

Where does this presumption that Carlisle will ruck come from?

He was recruited as a key defender because we only had Fisher and the novice Goddard.

So, why the hell would you even consider rucking him?

It makes as much sense as rucking Bruce.

The simple facts are that we have 3 ruckmen on our List, with both Longer and Pierce re-signed in recent weeks.

Longer has had a terrible year for a multitude of reasons - but was a high Draft Pick recruited from elsewhere so my expectation is that the rucking duties will resolve to Hickey and Longer.

Pierce is a "learner" and the back up.

Look at the ages of Hickey, Longer and Pierce (and the number of games they have played) because they all have their futures in front of them - so we expect significant improvement with experience.

No doubt Hickey is currently the most agile (and he was by a long shot even when we had McEvoy).

I think I read somewhere the plan for this season was to use Carlisle instead of Bruce as second ruck. Then Carlisle and the rest were banned.

[To the top]

Walker, Boyd, Cameron, Lynch, Franklin, Patton, Hawkins, Kennedy, Hogan et al say Carlisle will not be rucking at any time.

[kosifantutti]

I reckon Bruce usually does enough in the ruck. There was just that one game against the dogs where they went on a roll for 5 minutes while Hickey was off. But as long as he's not getting smashed and he's a threat around the ground I reckon he's a better option than having a second ruck.

When Montagna kicked the winning goal against the Dee's it was Bruce in the middle who then ran forward and got involved again.

[loris]

Where does this presumption that Carlisle will ruck come from?

He was recruited as a key defender because we only had Fisher and the novice Goddard.

So, why the hell would you even consider rucking him?

It makes as much sense as rucking Bruce.

The simple facts are that we have 3 ruckmen on our List, with both Longer and Pierce re-signed in recent weeks.

Longer has had a terrible year for a multitude of reasons - but was a high Draft Pick recruited from elsewhere so my expectation is that the rucking duties will resolve to Hickey and Longer.

Pierce is a "learner" and the back up.

Look at the ages of Hickey, Longer and Pierce (and the number of games they have played) because they all have their futures in front of them - so we expect significant improvement with experience.

No doubt Hickey is currently the most agile (and he was by a long shot even when we had McEvoy).

I think I read somewhere the plan for this season was to use Carlisle instead of Bruce as second ruck. Then Carlisle and the rest were banned.

Yes you are correct 'bigcarl'. There was a video interview with Josh Bruce on the saints.com.au a couple of months ago. Josh was asked about his role in ruck giving Hickey a chop out. He said the plan was to use Carlisle in that role this season. However due Carlilse's ban they went to plan B......... using Bruce. So the words came out of Bruce's mouth.

[loris]

Just looked up my original post on 31 May re the video Josh Bruce mentioned Carlilse doing the pinch hitting in the ruck this season. It was on a video 'Future Stars' that was relayed on saints.com.au around that time. Someone could do a link to verify where the talk of Carlisle rucking came from - it was obviously sometime around that date the video was done.

[bigcarl]

Thanks Loris

[CQ SAINT]

Walker, Boyd, Cameron, Lynch, Franklin, Patton, Hawkins, Kennedy, Hogan et al say Carlisle will not be rucking at any time.

We dont care what these guys say.

We are focused on a game plan which coordinates relentless commitment to team balance and individual accountability.

4 ruckmen in the squad.
1 ruckman playing most of year with 88% game time and smashing it.
Bruce covering approximately 12 minutes per game in the ruck.
Gilbert Roberton and Dempster regularly taking on KPF's and doing well.
198cm Carlisle coming in 2017.
196 Goddard waiting in the wings.
More Roberton/Dempster/Gilbert types developing at Sandy.
Interest in a few other KPD's
It doesnt take much sense to work out what's going on.

But no lets react to what other teams have in place.
Havent you had enough of doing that?

[Con Gorozidis]

Does anyone else find it amusing that the Dogs pay the same amount for Boyd that we pay for all three of Bruce, Membrey and McCartin.