Bulldogs No. 4

[thejiggingsaint]

The "Ball-Judd-Hodge" debate will never reach a conclusion. Personally, I believe all three are champs but Hodge IS the daddy!

[SaintPav]

Lyon didn't rate Ball in 2009 because he didn't have the fitness to spread. Ball's first half in the GF was good but a but overrated by many on here. Still Lyon stuffed up and should have used him in the 2nd half but remember this was just before interchange went through the roof.

[whiskers3614]

Ball did exactly as he should of done... stuck his middle finger up at Ross Lyon who's bias against Ball basically cost us a premiership and probably a norm smith.

the 2009 GF has one unexpained phenominon.

How could a person who had nearly the most number of possession/tackles/clearance spend 46% of the time on the ground and only about 5 mins of the last quarter... and the last 15 minutes on the bench watching... whilst the mids were running up and down on the spoty

Not unexplained. He was spent. Ross took the risk of playing an underdone player and it worked in first half, nothing left in tank in second half. Ball's fitness dropped off over course of season as he was too sore in groins after games to train mid-week. That's why he was dropped at one stage when seconds had a bye - to give him a mini 2 week training burst like a pre-season to get fitness up. If it had been dry on GF day he wouldn't have played. But you're right, overall Ross didn't rate him.

Your last sentence is spot on,but your first two are crap.

Lyin simply forgot to play him according to the man himself.

I heard him say so.

That's what he said publicly.

Lyon is well known for his poor memory

Didn't he forget to tell his manager and Saints board that he was dealing with Freo?

Score of flags Ball 1 Lyon 0 and yet people continue to purchase his snake oil!

[saintsRrising]

Its been 3 years and Billings will never be anywhere near the player of Bontempelli.

One can only judge on what you can see to date and based on that Bont is better than Billings.

Yes Billings can improve and I fully expect him to, but why would Bont not improve as well? Right here and now it looks like Gresham will have a better career than Billings.

Being a Saint I hope that Billings can radically improve, but to be an out and out gun he will need to radically improve.

Its like the Luke Ball, Chris Judd call. Trout has a lot of work to do to make up for that gaff!

You judge recruiters on the overall body of their work and not just on any one pick. Relative to draft position Gresh looks to be an out-perform for example. Billings an underperform. Overall I reckon Trout and his team are outperforming.

[MC Gusto]

Billings is carrying an injury, is yet to have an uninterrupted preseason (incl draft year) and is low on confidence. Yet he still bags up 20 odd possie games and has had a few crackers.

There is no doubting his talent...for mine his injuries are of most concern.

[MC Gusto]

And agree with post above. Recruiting is not about one offs it is about the entire body of work. If in the long run bont is better who really cares if it's us winning the flag??

[thejiggingsaint]

As I've previously stated; comparisons are odious. Rather than carp about the (perceived) "failure" ( ) to recruit a "star" I prefer to applaud the Club for building a TEAM and one which may well provide us with some VERY memorable moments over the coming period.

[Linton Lodger]

Billings is carrying an injury, is yet to have an uninterrupted preseason (incl draft year) and is low on confidence. Yet he still bags up 20 odd possie games and has had a few crackers.

There is no doubting his talent...for mine his injuries are of most concern.

Yep he's going alright for someone inexperienced, injured & not in the best form, probably due to injury.

[Linton Lodger]

As I've previously stated; comparisons are odious. Rather than carp about the (perceived) "failure" ( ) to recruit a "star" I prefer to applaud the Club for building a TEAM and one which may well provide us with some VERY memorable moments over the coming period.

Spot on.

[Johnny Member]

Billings needs to be far harder.

[damienc]

Had our chance...

He'll be a dogs captain as early as next year

Bugger. Dal's cousin, so a familial connection as well. I hope he and JB don't end up being our next Judd/Ball. The 2001 gaffe cost us at least one flag. I hope history doesn't repeat.

You make an interesting point.

But the reality is no-one has a crystal ball.

I would have loved to have taken the Bont but we took Billings instead. I would have taken both if we could.

Jack was the more highly rated player at that level at that time and we were after a player that could run and carry and kick goals.

Life and football is a game of choices.

Jack is still in development phase. He's been injured. But he's also shown glimpses of what he can do, so I think we need to give him time.

His disposal is still first class, even though his goal kicking, at the moment, is not what we might expect.

[saynta]

Ball did exactly as he should of done... stuck his middle finger up at Ross Lyon who's bias against Ball basically cost us a premiership and probably a norm smith.

the 2009 GF has one unexpained phenominon.

How could a person who had nearly the most number of possession/tackles/clearance spend 46% of the time on the ground and only about 5 mins of the last quarter... and the last 15 minutes on the bench watching... whilst the mids were running up and down on the spoty

Not unexplained. He was spent. Ross took the risk of playing an underdone player and it worked in first half, nothing left in tank in second half. Ball's fitness dropped off over course of season as he was too sore in groins after games to train mid-week. That's why he was dropped at one stage when seconds had a bye - to give him a mini 2 week training burst like a pre-season to get fitness up. If it had been dry on GF day he wouldn't have played. But you're right, overall Ross didn't rate him.

Your last sentence is spot on,but your first two are crap.

Lyin simply forgot to play him according to the man himself.

I heard him say so.

That's what he said publicly.

Lyon is well known for his poor memory




Didn't he forget to tell his manager and Saints board that he was dealing with Freo?

Score of flags Ball 1 Lyon 0 and yet people continue to purchase his snake oil!

well said.

[thejiggingsaint]

All water under the proverbial now. In terms of achievements; where is Lyon now? I just don't remain convinced that he can do what it takes to BUILD & DEVELOP a flag-winning side. The club came close to the ultimate prize with a side based on a solid, defence-based game plan. Snag was that our senior coach, when put to the ultimate test, lost his footy smarts and was out coached. All history now, and we collectively move on, and prepare to give Richo and his charges our very best support and encouragement! Go Saints! (To hell with the rest!)

[Animal Enclosure]

Too early to call the better player IMHO.

Sure he's settled in quickly, but Billings has the body of a kid still.

Billings will improve but he is not quicker and will never get close to his body strength. Bonty has a lot bigger, powerful frame and is strong in the shoulders. Genetically he has the goods and of course, the height difference we all knew. His aerial ability as he matures will make him elite, no worries about that.

The Dogs would have taken Billings at #4 if both he & Bont were still available.

Bont is an absolute gun but to say that he is quicker than JB is incorrect. Bont is actually quite slow but makes up for it with his size, kicking ability and overall footy nous.

I have no concerns about JB becoming a superstar of the competition at all... he just needs some continuity and to have a good run injury wise (which is what has held him back from a Bont-like start to his career).

If you are unconvinced then go and watch the last quarter of the Bulldogs game last year...it takes a very very special 20 year old to be able to do what JB did that night.

[Animal Enclosure]

Its been 3 years and Billings will never be anywhere near the player of Bontempelli. Its like the Luke Ball, Chris Judd call. Trout has a lot of work to do to make up for that gaff!

Trout has to make up for the Judd/Ball decision? Wasn't he an assistant at Essendon in November 2001? Yep, what a gaff!

Once again, you're showing your total lack of any idea.

Your posts are quickly moving from irritating to hysterical. Tell me again how Paddy has had the identical first two season to Kosi!!!

[SainterK]

I'll back in Jack

We need his type.

I maintain he's taking it all a bit serious, needs to love footy again.

It's issues with his mind, not ability.

[spert]

Bont is the poor man's Membrey

[BigMart]

People are defending JB just because he's at stk and we picked him... If we picked Bontempelli or Cripps we'd be singing from the roof tops.

If you are high end elite... Skill overcomes age
3rd season Ball B&F, Judd b&f, Cripps b&f and Bontempelli will be B&F and there are numerous examples of 2nd to 4th year players impacting big. Especially mids.

Jack has body issues... But that's a part of it... It's why you do a ridiculous amount of research before drafts.

I think it's pretty obvious Jack is not at the same level as a few of his contemporaries... That's ok

[prwilkinson]

Its been 3 years and Billings will never be anywhere near the player of Bontempelli. Its like the Luke Ball, Chris Judd call. Trout has a lot of work to do to make up for that gaff!

Hindsight expert. Billings and Bont are pretty different players. Who really knows how classy Jack Billings could become. He could very well just keep getting better and better and better as his career goes on.

[SaintPav]

The way some are going on about Bont you would have thought he won them the game.
I have news
Bulldogs lost

[Linton Lodger]

Too early to call the better player IMHO.

Sure he's settled in quickly, but Billings has the body of a kid still.

Billings will improve but he is not quicker and will never get close to his body strength. Bonty has a lot bigger, powerful frame and is strong in the shoulders. Genetically he has the goods and of course, the height difference we all knew. His aerial ability as he matures will make him elite, no worries about that.

The Dogs would have taken Billings at #4 if both he & Bont were still available.

Bont is an absolute gun but to say that he is quicker than JB is incorrect. Bont is actually quite slow but makes up for it with his size, kicking ability and overall footy nous.

I have no concerns about JB becoming a superstar of the competition at all... he just needs some continuity and to have a good run injury wise (which is what has held him back from a Bont-like start to his career).

If you are unconvinced then go and watch the last quarter of the Bulldogs game last year...it takes a very very special 20 year old to be able to do what JB did that night.

Indeed. I remember that goal he kicked, can't remember if its the one that put us in front, I think it was.

When the ball was still in dispute about 60 metres from our goal on the flank, you saw Jack lock onto it and for some reason in that moment, not only did you know he was going to get the footy, you knew he was going to conjure a goal. As he picked it up I said "put your glasses down" I had no doubt. He proceeded to steer through a beauty and you got the feeling he'd planned it all before he got the footy. Not to mention the rest of his quarter, where he took the game by the throat and won it off his own boot.

Haven't seen The Bont do that yet. Haven't seen it in a St Kilda guernsey since Plugger and I remember a fella called Jarman doing it to us in a game we all know well.

Players like that are something special, he is a potential champion.

[thejiggingsaint]

Bontempelli is a good young player; no argument from the Jiggster. However, I'm baffled as to why some folk are wringing their hands in anguish that he is playing for the Dullbogs, rather than us. There are NO guarantees that the doggies have now put down a deposit on their next premiership because of recruiting Bontempelli. Quite frankly, IF we want to compare the recruitment/drafting records of both clubs over the past 15 years, then I'll happily stick with the Saints. Cooney was going to be their great hope, and he was indeed a more than serviceable player (when fit!) Another stroke of genius from their recruitment team was to bring Jade Rawlings to their club (in spite of his declared wish to be traded to North) Then we had the "final pieces in the jigsaw" for a tilt at the flag; Barry Hall & Akermanis.......YEAH RIGHT! Does ANYONE remember THEIR contribution to the 2010 Preliminary Final. Time to stop making comparisons, and to instead GET BEHIND a young player on OUR list that probably would welcome some SUPPORT!

[mad saint guy]

Right now there's absolutely no comparison. There wouldn't be one coach in the AFL who would hesitate for a moment if they were given the choice of having Bontempelli or Billings at their club. Bont is already a gun big-bodied, goalkicking mid while Billings is currently a flaky half forward who has good skills but struggles to impact physical contests and rarely hits the scoreboard. Billings ATM lacks the strength, endurance and confidence to consistently impact games the way we want him to. I'm hoping he can play out the year in the seniors, bags some goals to get his confidence up and then have a proper uninterrupted pre season to get into AFL ready condition. I want him to go from being an 20 disposal, 0 goal player to 25+ and 1+ player next year, though I'm not super confident of that happening just yet. He seems a fair way off having an AFL ready tank and he needs to attack contests with much greater intensity.

[stonecold]

Well done to the Doggies, no-one rated the Bont to go in the draft so early except for them, he was a real shock selection at pick #4!!!!!

Credit where credit due!!!!!

[CURLY]

Well done to the Doggies, no-one rated the Bont to go in the draft so early except for them, he was a real shock selection at pick #4!!!!!

Credit where credit due!!!!!

Your joking right.