Billy hanging around a little longer ?

[saintbrat]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-20/s ... r-two-more
RUCKMAN Billy Longer is on the verge of re-signing with St Kilda for another two years.

Longer is yet to play a senior game in an injury-interrupted 2016, and the Saints' No.1 ruck spot that was largely his last season has been claimed by Tom Hickey.

The 23-year-old could have been tempted to test the trade market at the end of this season when he was due to come out of contract, with a number of rival clubs keen to bolster their ruck divisions.

But AFL.com.au understands St Kilda and Longer are very close to finalising a new deal that will keep him at the club until the end of 2018.>>>>>>>>>>>

[supersaints]

Think we should hang on to him ... Hope he stays

[BigMart]

Not sure why... Watched him closely Saturday... He is the 4th best ruckman on the list now, he took zero marks and whilst he throws his weight around nicely at stoppage and is as aggressive as f*** he struggled to find the ball at all... Even at VFL level

[prwilkinson]

Hmmm... Interesting. Thought he was being shopped around as the steak knives to try and help get another A grader through the door. Had a great season last year. Hasn't really happened for him in 2016. Tommy boy has streaked ahead.

[skeptic]

Not sure why... Watched him closely Saturday... He is the 4th best ruckman on the list now, he took zero marks and whilst he throws his weight around nicely at stoppage and is as aggressive as f*** he struggled to find the ball at all... Even at VFL level

Surely Hickey taught you the value of not writing people off too quickly.

[Bluthy]

This makes total sense for both St Kilda and Billy. Pierce is still very much an unknown quantity. Holmes is looking unlikely due to his age being behind the eight-ball in learning the game. Billy would be aware that he still has to really develop his around the ground game if he is to make it as an AFL ruckmen but he is still young for a ruck - many don't hit their prime until their very late 20's.

He's in a really good development environment and apparently the rucks are very close and supportive of each other, helping each other develop - thats a great place to come to work. I'm sure he is a bit frustrated at being pushed out of the seniors but he would know he would be in the same situation at other clubs. He needs to work on being effective around the ground which may come once he gets older and stronger and can lug that big frame around better.

He could still be traded if he was under contract anyway and wanted out. Anyone thinking we would get much for him now as a trade is living in fantasy land. If his concussion is right I'd like to see him get a senior game or two the rest of this year and give Hicks a rest who's carried a heavy load. Anything can happen with injury/form.

[BigMart]

What is the point of having three ruckmen sitting in a queue in the VFL?

4 players for one position... Last year it was Hickey playing most of the year in the VFL with Pierce and Holmes... This year Holmes and Pierce, now Longer.

The three of them together cost Sandy a win on Sunday and it was stupid to see 2 ruckmen sitting i50 trying to play (ineffectively) as key forwards because we had none.... And none of them got enough minutes in the ruck to find continuity.

None will play key fwd in the afl as they are basically witches hats for defenders to run off and they don't catch it that well anyway... Plus they are slow and a liability on the deck.

You need 1 ruckman in the seniors... We have 4 bonafide ruckmen
You need 2.5 key fwds ... We have 4 bonafide key forwards

From a list management pov why would you be over resourced in one area and under resourced elsewhere.... And why would you have energy and money put into a player... Who is purely a back up player.

Will longer be in our best 22 next year? Because if he is, Hickey is not...

Is Longer better than Pierce... Or will he be next season. For those who have watched a lot of Pierce can clearly see he is not an unknown quantity... He has obvious potential

Can Holmes provide what Longer can at a far cheaper cost... A straight out tap ruckman.

Had longer got currency? You bet!!

Why have three ruckmen rotting in the BFL if they have currency? If we traded Longer last season... How would it have effected this season?

On Hickey
He has surprised many this season with his rise. He was awful last season at VFL level and was surpassed by Holmes in the back end. He is undersized (lacks strength) but is mobile and athletic with good hands. I have never understood the need for 2 number 1 ruck men on the list. Imo you need one, with a back up and a developer. The game doesn't need 2 in the 22... It just limits rotation which kills spread.
My query on Hickey had always been size and aggression in the contest and the need to have him if we have a ruckman. However, the question can easily be... Do we need longer if we have hickey?

[CURLY]

What is the point of having three ruckmen sitting in a queue in the VFL?

4 players for one position... Last year it was Hickey playing most of the year in the VFL with Pierce and Holmes... This year Holmes and Pierce, now Longer.

The three of them together cost Sandy a win on Sunday and it was stupid to see 2 ruckmen sitting i50 trying to play (ineffectively) as key forwards because we had none.... And none of them got enough minutes in the ruck to find continuity.

None will play key fwd in the afl as they are basically witches hats for defenders to run off and they don't catch it that well anyway... Plus they are slow and a liability on the deck.

You need 1 ruckman in the seniors... We have 4 bonafide ruckmen
You need 2.5 key fwds ... We have 4 bonafide key forwards

From a list management pov why would you be over resourced in one area and under resourced elsewhere.... And why would you have energy and money put into a player... Who is purely a back up player.

Will longer be in our best 22 next year? Because if he is, Hickey is not...

Is Longer better than Pierce... Or will he be next season. For those who have watched a lot of Pierce can clearly see he is not an unknown quantity... He has obvious potential

Can Holmes provide what Longer can at a far cheaper cost... A straight out tap ruckman.

Had longer got currency? You bet!!

Why have three ruckmen rotting in the BFL if they have currency? If we traded Longer last season... How would it have effected this season?

On Hickey
He has surprised many this season with his rise. He was awful last season at VFL level and was surpassed by Holmes in the back end. He is undersized (lacks strength) but is mobile and athletic with good hands. I have never understood the need for 2 number 1 ruck men on the list. Imo you need one, with a back up and a developer. The game doesn't need 2 in the 22... It just limits rotation which kills spread.
My query on Hickey had always been size and aggression in the contest and the need to have him if we have a ruckman. However, the question can easily be... Do we need longer if we have hickey?

Why do you lie to try and prove your point.

[Wayne42]

Alan obviously thinks we need Longer, hence the contract offer. I'm wondering when he'll let us know he wants Pierce next year as well.

[BigMart]

Point out the lie

[CURLY]

Point out the lie

That none of the ruckman spent enough time in the ruck to get contuity on Sunday. 100% bulls***.

[BigMart]

Well, I was there.... And watched them (longer in particular) very closely.
Having the three of them in windy conditions was costly!!!!! Only needed 1.

Billy was the number one, Holmes the number two and Pierce number three.

Billy started q1 in the centre and had most of the first quarter.
Holmes had the majority of q2 the other two having stints
Pierce and Holmes and Longer all shared the third
Holmes had the first half of the last and Longer the second half of the last.

In the first three quarters Holmes was the best at stoppage
Pierce easily the best around the ground

Longer had a very strong last quarter after being only just till that point.

Haretuku was better than all of the StK ruckmen

[BigMart]

Oh

And how is an opinion or viewpoint a LIE?!

[CURLY]

Longer had 60 hit outs!!!!!!

[BigMart]

So

What do you think that means?...

I'm not sure you indicated... Were you there??

[CURLY]

He had 60 which means he obviously had some sort of continuity. That's of course unless there was 600 ruck duels in the game.

[Spinner]

So

What do you think that means?...

I'm not sure you indicated... Were you there??

Haha didn't longer have 60 hit outs?

Let's hope you are as on the money as you were Hickey.

[Zed]

Billy's trade value will have diminished this season, so I like the idea of holding him and betting that he will get better rather than not develop further.

Holmes has no trade value and Lewis hasn't shown enough to stamp himself as the clear #2 nor as potential trade bait.

[felix]

Surely you need
Longer as back up if hickey goes down to a long term injury . You can't rely on Pierce and Holmes at this stage.

[borderbarry]

Actually you could rely on them as back=up. Dont you remember the last three games last season? Holmes did a reasonable job as a tap ruckman.

[SemperFidelis]

Last year people were saying the same thing about Hickey.

Fantastic if we have the luxury of keeping him. Give him half a chance to get fit and match fit again before you pot him. He played some good games last year and he will again. Pierce is still a longer term prospect (pardon the pun).

[Linton Lodger]

Actually you could rely on them as back=up. Dont you remember the last three games last season? Holmes did a reasonable job as a tap ruckman.

Holmes acquitted himself well, however he didn't give us anywhere near what Hickey gives us around the ground. Longer has had a number of good solid performances as the number 1 at AFL level, Pierce hasn't yet.

[Beno88]

Not sure why... Watched him closely Saturday... He is the 4th best ruckman on the list now, he took zero marks and whilst he throws his weight around nicely at stoppage and is as aggressive as f*** he struggled to find the ball at all... Even at VFL level

Probably not unusual for a big guy who has missed the best part of 10 weeks with concussion.

[stonecold]

You have to remember, Big Bill is still only 23 and has a massive up side to come yet (just like Hickey) Once it becomes official, they can then announce Skunky's re-signing, will be 3-4 years from what I understand!!!!!

[White Winmar]

I'm not so sure Billy has shown the potential for improvement Hickey did. Remember, Hickey was a volleyballer who came to AFL in his late teens. His development has been remarkable. I wasn't the only one who was excited about Hickey's potential, but I was also concerned when he was languishing in the VFL last year. What got my spirits up was watching him in the Wangaratta practice match in February. He looked the sort of player we all hoped he could become. Billy, on the other hand, despite being our number one last year, never really looked like he could dominate a game, especially not when it came to contributing around the ground. He takes very few contested marks, and gets few possessions. His bash and crash and tap work are his strengths. That makes him a dinosaur in today's game.

One of the reasons we have improved this year is Hickey's influence. He has been a massive upgrade on Billy of last year. I remember Bevo being surprised Billy was pick 8 in his draft. As with most ruckman drafted with an early pick, you go on potential as much as anything. I thought grabbing him with pick 25 represented reasonable value, especially as he'd got a couple of preseason so under his belt there. I'm afraid to say that IMHO his subsequent development and exposed form suggest he was nowhere near a number 8 draft pick. Having said all that, as Neil Balme says, "Ruckmen. You've always got too many, or not enough". As posted elsewhere on this forum, a number of people have expressed the view that 4 Ruckmen are too many to hold at any one time. I was bullish about Lewie Pierce, because I'd seen a bit of him as a junior. He would clunk marks, go forward and kick the odd goal and get plenty of touches. Unfortunately, he had the body of a child and needed a lot of physical development. I believe it's why he was overlooked until pick 75. I think it might end up a stroke of genius by the trout.

The other thing that worries me is that people think we might score an early to mid second rounder for Billy. I spoke to a club recruiter colleague and he thought we're doing a Darryl Kerrigan. "Tell 'em they're dreamin'. I think talk of a contract might be a ploy to boost his potential trade value, although it would probably be wise to hang onto him for one more year as back up, but he's probably going to get pretty sick of playing VFL if Hickey remains fit. Richo seems pretty clear on playing one main ruckman and if there is another one, he should be able to play forward. On that score, Lewie has Billy well and truly covered.