I'm not convinced about Al....

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Bluthy
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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1619956Post Bluthy »

Johnny Member wrote:I think the reaction to a walloping at Adelaide Oval against a red hot side was strange.

I think the reaction to a walloping against the Eagles in Perth was strange.

I think the judgement of the club right now, given the perspective of the team's we've played, is far more relevant.

I don't think Tony74 was suggesting for a second that the last month of footy makes us an awesome side.

I think the comment was suggesting that some perspective may be in place in a month So a more reasonable logical assessment of where we're at could be formed.
For me its not even about win and losses but trying to understand the Richo game plan and set ups and see if there are any fault lines there. Sometimes game plan flaws can get covered up by individual talents when you have extremely good players come into their prime. You can say that was the flaw with GT's tactics who got done over by coaches with better defensive systems that ground his individually talented teams to a halt. Lyon was the opposite, brilliant defensively but no willingness to attack and land scoreboard pressure in big games.

What is a red flag for me is the huge thrashings around the 90 point mark we are still copping. I'd cop a 10 - 12 goal loss interstate against a top eight team. Richo's system should certainly bend, but it shouldn't break. We've had four near 100 point losses in our last 14 games. And Richo can't even rely on saying we are extremely young playing a lot of oldies or that we are chopping and changing the side as we haven't been that much.

We just seem to fall into a heap when the momentum is against us without the players knowing what to do to stem the flow. That worries me as its very GT. They should have a system to clog it up, flood, keep the footy for a bit, counter-attack, something to take the heat out of the game and slow it down. In grannies the oppo will have the momentum during different stages - does your system hold up to stop it until you can get the momentum back? The way teams can still go coast to coast against us worries me about our system and zoning.

I still don't know how Dogs and Hawks manage to be so attacking and yet incredibly tight defensively. Its something to do with having guys in certain zones to cover if there is a turn over but its also incredibly dynamic. We seem to rely on all the players being up and bringing incredible pressure and effort - we were at the top of the pressure table last year which was surprising for a young team. That lasts for a couple of games and then falls over from physical and mental exhaustion and we cop a pounding.

I'm not going to judge Richo until next year when he a lot of his draft babies will start to bloom and it will be genuinely his team. But if I see another near 100 pt I'm going to be really worried that he doesn't have the footy systems understanding to match it with the likes of Clarkson, Beveridge, Longmire, Scotts etc
Last edited by Bluthy on Mon 13 Jun 2016 12:52pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1619960Post Impatient Sainter »

Great game by Richo - he has reinstalled the faith! I hope he learnt something along the way also that he needs to trust those kids banging the door down. The energy and excitement they bring to the team is immeasurable.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1619963Post magnifisaint »

I don't like Richo's plan of picking the weeks he likes to win. I'm sure he doesn't want to build up the hope too soon.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1619991Post tony74 »

freely wrote:Surely tony74 is just quoting bigred who said we really need to win 3 of the next 4 (implying that we probably wouldn't) - and we have. Wasn't saying it was good, bad, or indifferent - just that it was job done. Which it is!

Now we can get on with the next 4 - Geelong, Gold Coast, Essendon, Melbourne...bring em on I say :D

3/4 to pass?
Yeah, you've got it right Freely. We're where we should be. I think all of us will be very happy if we get three wins out of the next four. Very happy group at recovery this morning. Will have pretty much a full list to pick fron in a fortnight. Even Chipper might be right ( was running laps on Thursday with Freezer ( who is nowhere near as bad as some may make out )).
They go to the break with the right mind set.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620018Post remboy »

tony74 wrote:
freely wrote:Surely tony74 is just quoting bigred who said we really need to win 3 of the next 4 (implying that we probably wouldn't) - and we have. Wasn't saying it was good, bad, or indifferent - just that it was job done. Which it is!

Now we can get on with the next 4 - Geelong, Gold Coast, Essendon, Melbourne...bring em on I say :D

3/4 to pass?
Yeah, you've got it right Freely. We're where we should be. I think all of us will be very happy if we get three wins out of the next four. Very happy group at recovery this morning. Will have pretty much a full list to pick fron in a fortnight. Even Chipper might be right ( was running laps on Thursday with Freezer ( who is nowhere near as bad as some may make out )).
They go to the break with the right mind set.
I had a look at the draw before this weekend and thought we had seven winnable games in the second half of the year. I also though Carlton might be hardest of them. No reason why we shouldn't double our tally of wins from here.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620033Post SemperFidelis »

tony74 wrote:
freely wrote:Surely tony74 is just quoting bigred who said we really need to win 3 of the next 4 (implying that we probably wouldn't) - and we have. Wasn't saying it was good, bad, or indifferent - just that it was job done. Which it is!

Now we can get on with the next 4 - Geelong, Gold Coast, Essendon, Melbourne...bring em on I say :D

3/4 to pass?
Yeah, you've got it right Freely. We're where we should be. I think all of us will be very happy if we get three wins out of the next four. Very happy group at recovery this morning. Will have pretty much a full list to pick fron in a fortnight. Even Chipper might be right ( was running laps on Thursday with Freezer ( who is nowhere near as bad as some may make out )).
They go to the break with the right mind set.
Great news, Tony; and bloody thrilled if Chips or Freeman can run anywhere at all at the moment.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620040Post #gosaintas »

I don't want Chips and Dempster to ever play in the same team for us again.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620064Post tony74 »

#gosaintas wrote:I don't want Chips and Dempster to ever play in the same team for us again.
You're going to be disappointed then.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620074Post SemperFidelis »

tony74 wrote:
#gosaintas wrote:I don't want Chips and Dempster to ever play in the same team for us again.
You're going to be disappointed then.
No one else will be disappointed.

When it's time for them to go, they'll go with our blessing. In the meantime, we need both of them out there.

The cavalry may be coming, but it's still a way off.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620075Post Con Gorozidis »

If Chips and Dempster both play on next year the club is guaranteed failure.
The Saints should not be a retirement village and a superannuation top-up fund for the 'almost heroes' of 2009/10.
The reality is Collingwood of 2010 were no world beaters.
The club's history is so devoid of success that we treat the 'almost heroes' like Bradman's invincibles meets the X men.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620079Post BringBackMadDog »

Con Gorozidis wrote:If Chips and Dempster both play on next year the club is guaranteed failure.
The Saints should not be a retirement village and a superannuation top-up fund for the 'almost heroes' of 2009/10.
The reality is Collingwood of 2010 were no world beaters.
The club's history is so devoid of success that we treat the 'almost heroes' like Bradman's invincibles meets the X men.
What an idiotic comment, both chips and Dempster are more than earning their keep. They are still in our top 22, Carlisle coming in next year will allow dempster to play on someone more his height, Goddard won't be ready until round 9 or 10 and then will need time in the twos to get his confidence up.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620080Post Waltzing St Kilda »

I think the club feels they owe Chips for giving him some dodgy medical advice about his foot.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620084Post desertsaint »

#gosaintas wrote:I don't want Chips and Dempster to ever play in the same team for us again.
what? so our best two defenders shouldn't play together because they are over 30? what kind of cockaninny reasoning is that? heck if we're thinking we'll be a genuine contender after 2020 lets drop steven and armo now. list cloggers the lot of them.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620085Post WellardSaint »

Con Gorozidis wrote:If Chips and Dempster both play on next year the club is guaranteed failure.
The Saints should not be a retirement village and a superannuation top-up fund for the 'almost heroes' of 2009/10.
The reality is Collingwood of 2010 were no world beaters.
The club's history is so devoid of success that we treat the 'almost heroes' like Bradman's invincibles meets the X men.
Folks think Fisher is our premier defender, and point to his game against Pav.
But Pav is a shadow of his former self, so it's not relevant.
There have been lots of other clubs that have let go of favourite sons, which upset lots of die-hard fans of those clubs.
The oldies were let go because keeping them would stifle the progress of the younger replacements.
It's evolution, the oldies have to move aside.
I know Goddard won't be ready, but Delaney is there, and bring up Caveman Shenton.
Team has to learn for life after the grandparents.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620095Post supersaints »

Chips is still our best in reading the play in the backline, both Chips and Dempster have been forced to play on bigger players than would be preferable for us. When Carlise finally plays we should see them both play on better matched apponents.
They both earn their keep at present


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620096Post #gosaintas »

Neither give run anymore and neither have good disposal. Dempster seems to specialise in kicking the ball out on the full.

The sooner they both retire the better if Richo won't push them out.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620104Post Johnny Member »

Both Demptser and Fisher would be very, very good if they were afforded the luxury of playing lesser roles.

I think at applies to quite a large chunk of our list to be honest.


But until some more quality arrives, guys will continue to be forced to play roles that may be stretching them.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620109Post felix »

Con Gorozidis wrote:If Chips and Dempster both play on next year the club is guaranteed failure.
The Saints should not be a retirement village and a superannuation top-up fund for the 'almost heroes' of 2009/10.
The reality is Collingwood of 2010 were no world beaters.
The club's history is so devoid of success that we treat the 'almost heroes' like Bradman's invincibles meets the X men.
Using that logic ..roo and monty should be gone as well ...


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1620114Post Bluthy »

Richo's conservatism at selection worries me. His hand was forced this week with some fresh young blood and hey presto we looked much better. The world didn't end with no Dempster - maybe the team was even better. Who knows. I would be very disappointed if we go back to having all of Demps, Fish, Gilbo, Geary and Monty in the back half. That is not forward looking and we don't get much info out of playing them all together.

If he wants his team to take the game on then he has to back it up with selection otherwise its empty words and players will know that and it will act on them regardless of what inspiring words he uses to them. Deeds not words. Look at how Robbo enjoyed the extra responsibility and freedom of playing a key back role. Next week he may get towelled up but you don't know unless you try it. Learning involves failing, not playing it safe. We are in a developmental/experimental phase and should be trying these experiments.

The best coaches are bold and take calculated risks looking to the future. I'm worried Richo doesn't have the necessary vision and boldness that the elite coaches have. Prove me wrong Al.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1622149Post magnifisaint »

Richo didn't do too badly this week. Seems like he knows how to coach a bit. Must have shown a bit of boldness and vision this week.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1622171Post satchmo »

magnifisaint wrote:Richo didn't do too badly this week. Seems like he knows how to coach a bit. Must have shown a bit of boldness and vision this week.
Freo will be into him by now.


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1622191Post magnifisaint »

satchmo wrote:
magnifisaint wrote:Richo didn't do too badly this week. Seems like he knows how to coach a bit. Must have shown a bit of boldness and vision this week.
Freo will be into him by now.
Yeah with that slime ball Rosich. Richardson has a bit more integrity and vision that Lyon has


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1622384Post Bernard Shakey »

I think a lot of other coaches are convinced about Al....


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1625776Post Scollop »

Bump

The doomsayers before this match against the Dees were negative in a few threads about Delaney getting dropped and once again Richo was bold enough to do it his way. He keeps harping on about wanting the team to be bold and take risks and what better way to lead by example with him and his coaching staff taking risks.

I love the fact that Richo is brave enough to risk unconventional structures. He's got the trust of the team and he's got great leaders selling and believing in the coach and his message. He's also got Gilbo starting to hit his targets ;)


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Re: I'm not convinced about Al....

Post: # 1625789Post st.byron »

Scollop wrote:Bump

The doomsayers before this match against the Dees were negative in a few threads about Delaney getting dropped and once again Richo was bold enough to do it his way. He keeps harping on about wanting the team to be bold and take risks and what better way to lead by example with him and his coaching staff taking risks.

I love the fact that Richo is brave enough to risk unconventional structures. He's got the trust of the team and he's got great leaders selling and believing in the coach and his message. He's also got Gilbo starting to hit his targets ;)
Gilbo turns 30 this year. I thought he was pretty cooked a while back. But he may have a few seasons in him yet. Was good today.


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