I'm not convinced about Al....

[Devilhead]

Getting A-Grade talent isnt just a matter of clicking your fingers and saying 'shazaam'.

Hopefully when we decide to fill our salary cap space there could be plenty of potential A Grade players talent who would be happy to pull the trigger and move back to Melbourne.

Whether they continue on as being A grade or fulfill their A-grade potential remains to be seen

Either way our fortunes will probably rise and fall on how nail our SC space recruiting

Also while I am generally a fan of the age profiling of lists - just having the right age profile isnt a guarantee in itself. You just have to look at Richmond to see that. Richmond have 21 players on their list in the core age group. Most of those have between 50 and 200 games.

For sure ........ but they did make finals 3 years running

Look at Geelong - missed finals last year and then added three 26 year olds - Dangerfield, Henderson, and Smith - all who have had an impact thus far and now they are potentially a top 4 side

Unfortunately for Richmond (or fortunately for the rest of the league) they just havent been able to take the next step as there has been teams around with similar age profiles that are just better...... we will likely encounter a similar situation with GWS, Bulldogs, Collngwood, Port, Melbourne with their windows opening around the same time as us - not to mention a few other current finals sides who might top up like Geelong to stave off a rebuild

[samuraisaint]

Sometimes when you don't have a star studded side you can afford to buy players due to FA. How much better will we be with Carlisle, and maybe Hurley, and then a Marchbank?
Some of the guys like Wright in the reserves, along with Lee and McKenzie, can play. They are winning a lot of games. You can throw Blake Acres in with that lot. Geelong lost A graders then won 2 more premierships, Hawthorn too, and they have had plenty of injuries to contend with.
I didn't like what I saw yesterday, but I would prefer us to be down while we are down, and then when we start to improve, to keep going. If we finish bottom 5 then so be it, so long as we improve next year and win our 9 games and end up mid table.

[Devilhead]

We are obviously 6-8 players short of being a top 8 side. Most of our younger brigade seem to be solid workmen at best with little in the way of star quality, so pouring more games into them will probably mean that they will be ordinary players with fifty games to their name. Our imports however seem to be going well e.g. Bruce, Hickey, Weller, Savage etc. We have to do more trading IMO because the draft alone does not seem to be working for us.

I agree.

I also think our selection panel has a lot to answer for. Against WCE and now Crows, two teams with power forwards we have Gilbert and Dempster on them.
What about bring in Lee and Delaney. Yes they are not our future but it makes a nearly a 100 point thrashing to maybe a 30point loss.
What's our plan for our back line if Carlisle doesn't come on?

It takes years of training and commitment to become regular AFL footballers and every team needs solid workmen and occasionally some of these solid workman do take the next step and become bona fide impact players

Young players that are bona fide impact players from the outset are few and far between - a very small percentage - the majority of AFL players have to work hard to hone their skills and build their bodies to endure the rigors of AFL footy and of of course there is the mental side of the game which can be impacted by fatigue and the physical nature of the game and the general maturity of a player.

It is very likely that a few of our younger brigade will take the next step - Ross, McCartin, Billings, Gresham and hopefully Acres and become A-graders but this may not become totally apparent for another few seasons

Agree that we have gaps in our defence and midfield that need filling however both drafting and trading have equal important roles in building a premiership list and with our SC space the trading element will play its part soon enough - we just need to nail it

[Johnny Member]

I already explained it.

Where??
If we have a extreme lack of talent, explain how we won those 4 games??

From my earlier post....

"I actually think it's our system and process that has got us over the line and made us competitive this year - despite the clear lack of talent on the park. So I'm definitely not turning the focus to the coach. Absolutely not at this stage."

[Devilhead]

If we finish bottom 5 then so be it, so long as we improve next year and win our 9 games and end up mid table.

We are likely to win 9 games this year if we keep learning and put our heads down - we could have had 6 on the board already if not for an ounce of misfortune.

There will be plenty of up and downs over the coming seasons but that is all part and parcel of becoming a finals side and a premiership contender

2004 PF - St Kilda 69 - Brisbane 149
2005 Rd 22 - St Kilda 186 - Brisbane 47

2008 PF - St Kilda 64 - Hawthorn 118
2009 Rd 19 - St Kilda 74 Hawthorn 49

2009 Rd 7 - St Kilda 128 - Collingwood 40
2010 GF Replay - St Kilda 52 - Collingwood 108

[SainterK]

I don't see 'systems and processes'

What am I missing?

[WellardSaint]

I don't see 'systems and processes'

What am I missing?

There has been a trend of hard running and taking the game on bravely, through the middle.
And occasionally, kicking to leads by forwards such as vs Melb, Ess, Dockers;
however...in our thrashings, it becomes anarchy and every man for himself.

[barneyboyz]

If we finish bottom 5 then so be it, so long as we improve next year and win our 9 games and end up mid table.

We are likely to win 9 games this year if we keep learning and put our heads down - we could have had 6 on the board already if not for an ounce of misfortune.

There will be plenty of up and downs over the coming seasons but that is all part and parcel of becoming a finals side and a premiership contender

2004 PF - St Kilda 69 - Brisbane 149
2005 Rd 22 - St Kilda 186 - Brisbane 47

2008 PF - St Kilda 64 - Hawthorn 118
2009 Rd 19 - St Kilda 74 Hawthorn 49

2009 Rd 7 - St Kilda 128 - Collingwood 40
2010 GF Replay - St Kilda 52 - Collingwood 108

Very well put

[tony74]

Judge them in a month?

Essendon, a bottom of the table Freo, travelling to Adelaide and a resurgent Carlton? We should win three minimum.

At the end of the month we should have five wins, but all that does is put us at 5-7 and nothing more than nuisance value to the top 10-12 sides. Which is on par with where we should be. Drop more than one in the next month and we have a problem.

And we're where we should be. But there's games being put into young uns and different strategies being tried. Remember we don't win a flag this year or next but these are the grounding years. I think most of us would have taken three out of the four last month. They're a very happy group tonight.





Or the tank is on.

[Bluthy]

Judge them in a month?

Essendon, a bottom of the table Freo, travelling to Adelaide and a resurgent Carlton? We should win three minimum.

At the end of the month we should have five wins, but all that does is put us at 5-7 and nothing more than nuisance value to the top 10-12 sides. Which is on par with where we should be. Drop more than one in the next month and we have a problem.

And we're where we should be. But there's games being put into young uns and different strategies being tried. Remember we don't win a flag this year or next but these are the grounding years. I think most of us would have taken three out of the four last month. They're a very happy group tonight.





Or the tank is on.

Come on Tony. We beat cellar dwellers Freo, Dons and a flat blues team that had been up for quite a while and looked a bit off. The blowouts are still a worry. Richo;s defensive system should certainly bend without the developed personnel to implement everything they way he wants, but it shouldn't break. The huge losses are a bit of a red flag as it means there isn't a system in place to shut things down and clog things up when the momentum is against them.

In retrospect the consistent huge losses under GT when he had the baby saints was a sign that he didn't really have a strong understanding of complex defensive structures. That got covered up later by the superstars developing and the tight team bond but got shown up in prelims.

With two bad losses at the end of last year and two this year, we need to start seeing solid performances against the top teams where the acid is applied to show Richo's system is defensively robust enough. Defences win you premierships.

A good bounce back from last week but I don't feel anything has been proven yet. The second half of the season will be a bit more of a litmus test with some of our players tiring a bit again and injuries striking. Will Richo's system hold up?

[Johnny Member]

Aren't we realistically only proving that although were currently a bottom 4 side with possibly a bottom 2 list - were on the right direction toward being a top 4-8 side in the next 2-3 years?


Why on earth would anyone possibly expect anything other than that??

[satchmo]

I'm pretty happy with Al. I think he knows what he's doing. But more importantly, I think he will continue to learn and improve.

[SainterK]

This thread might get bumped a bit...

Rollercoaster season

[Con Gorozidis]

I am convinced! Today was my 'barometer' for the season.
Up until today we have beaten s*** teams and lost to good teams. Today was the day we beat a team around our position on the ladder.
I think we should now go on to finish the year with 9-10 wins and that is certainly a good solid year. We are on the up.

Had we lost today. Well.....

I would have had an epic melt

[degruch]

Judge us in a month? Geez...the jury's still out...we beat a team we would have been expected to beat at the start of the season, so where we are is anyone's guess still. Still have my money on 10 wins for the season though.

[Johnny Member]

Judge us in a month? Geez...the jury's still out...we beat a team we would have been expected to beat at the start of the season, so where we are is anyone's guess still. Still have my money on 10 wins for the season though.

What does it matter where we're at now though?


10 wins. 14 wins. 7 wins.

So what?


We're surely just trying to get more talent to the club so we're in a decent position in 2-3 years time aren't we?

[SainterK]

Wins and losses aren't always a good measure, especially this year, sides all over the place

[degruch]

Judge us in a month? Geez...the jury's still out...we beat a team we would have been expected to beat at the start of the season, so where we are is anyone's guess still. Still have my money on 10 wins for the season though.

What does it matter where we're at now though?


10 wins. 14 wins. 7 wins.

So what?


We're surely just trying to get more talent to the club so we're in a decent position in 2-3 years time aren't we?

Tony's posing the question, not me. We are probably where we expected to be IMO, although I didn't think we would be so easy to beat on the road.

[Johnny Member]

Judge us in a month? Geez...the jury's still out...we beat a team we would have been expected to beat at the start of the season, so where we are is anyone's guess still. Still have my money on 10 wins for the season though.

We beat a team we were expected to beat.

We've done that probably 4 times this year.

We've beaten a team that before the season began, we wouldn't have been expected to beat.

We've gone real close against two very good teams.

We've been walloped badly by two very good teams away.

We've been beaten reasonably comfortably a very good team.

We've been beaten reasonably comfortably by a decent team away.

We haven't been beaten yet, by a team we should have beaten.

We haven't been beaten by a team that 'could have gone either way' yet.



Guess what?


That's where we're at.


Pretty much exactly, if not slightly ahead of where most, if not all hoped we'd be.



I mean seriously, WTF do people expect from us?

[degruch]

I mean seriously, WTF do people expect from us?

I don't know...why do the club think the fans should be able to judge their progress at this point of the season? I guess it's only one person from the club's opinion, but I seriously doubt anyone can work out whether we've improved or stagnated at the halfway point. Were we supposed to have annihilated everyone over the last 4 weeks?

[Johnny Member]

Judge us in a month? Geez...the jury's still out...we beat a team we would have been expected to beat at the start of the season, so where we are is anyone's guess still. Still have my money on 10 wins for the season though.

What does it matter where we're at now though?


10 wins. 14 wins. 7 wins.

So what?


We're surely just trying to get more talent to the club so we're in a decent position in 2-3 years time aren't we?

Tony's posing the question, not me. We are probably where we expected to be IMO, although I didn't think we would be so easy to beat on the road.

I think the reaction to a walloping at Adelaide Oval against a red hot side was strange.

I think the reaction to a walloping against the Eagles in Perth was strange.


I think the judgement of the club right now, given the perspective of the team's we've played, is far more relevant.



I don't think Tony74 was suggesting for a second that the last month of footy makes us an awesome side.

I think the comment was suggesting that some perspective may be in place in a month So a more reasonable logical assessment of where we're at could be formed.

[widereceiver]

Judge us in a month? Geez...the jury's still out...we beat a team we would have been expected to beat at the start of the season, so where we are is anyone's guess still. Still have my money on 10 wins for the season though.

We beat a team we were expected to beat.

We've done that probably 4 times this year.

We've beaten a team that before the season began, we wouldn't have been expected to beat.

We've gone real close against two very good teams.

We've been walloped badly by two very good teams away.

We've been beaten reasonably comfortably a very good team.

We've been beaten reasonably comfortably by a decent team away.

We haven't been beaten yet, by a team we should have beaten.

We haven't been beaten by a team that 'could have gone either way' yet.



Guess what?


That's where we're at.


Pretty much exactly, if not slightly ahead of where most, if not all hoped we'd be.



I mean seriously, WTF do people expect from us?

This...

[degruch]

I don't think Tony74 was suggesting for a second that the last month of footy makes us an awesome side.

I think the comment was suggesting that some perspective may be in place in a month So a more reasonable logical assessment of where we're at could be formed.

You're probably right, I think it depends on the interpretation of the comment. I did find the idea that we'd come out and make some kind of bold statement over the last month kind of strange, more a reaction against our poor performance at the time. I find such huge defeats against Worst Coast and the Crows pretty hard to swallow though, as they were very 2013-2014. Frankly, I found the first quarter of today's game equally as distressing, even though we maintained the lead. Great we came good by following process and maintaining persistence.

[WellardSaint]

I don't think Tony74 was suggesting for a second that the last month of footy makes us an awesome side.

I think the comment was suggesting that some perspective may be in place in a month So a more reasonable logical assessment of where we're at could be formed.

You're probably right, I think it depends on the interpretation of the comment. I did find the idea that we'd come out and make some kind of bold statement over the last month kind of strange, more a reaction against our poor performance at the time. I find such huge defeats against Worst Coast and the Crows pretty hard to swallow though, as they were very 2013-2014. Frankly, I found the first quarter of today's game equally as distressing, even though we maintained the lead. Great we came good by following process and maintaining persistence.

I am quite sad that the coaches' messages and directions were lost on the players in Adelaide and Perth (apparently).
After Adelaide, AR, for the first time I can remember, actually referred to himself and the other coaches as needing to reflect inwards and question whether THEY could have done things differently- as coaches.
If you're guiding young men, maybe you can't show any sort of misgivings yourself.
Oh, behind closed doors, there would always be discussions about improving their own process- managers do that all the time in leadership meetings.
The win today, against a team on our level, is expected and we are grateful for that.
Still mistakes- Gilbo did one brain fade that David King told him to his face (the flog), AR mentioned it, as well as another one by Robbo that resulted in a turnover.
They still need to be cleaner and make the right decisions; other teams above us, will punish us painfully for stupid plays.

The guys need to be better in their execution and following strategies.
Learning, on a slow burn.

We need to be close to the Cats in 2 weeks, and I can't wait to see how that pans out.

[freely]

Surely tony74 is just quoting bigred who said we really need to win 3 of the next 4 (implying that we probably wouldn't) - and we have. Wasn't saying it was good, bad, or indifferent - just that it was job done. Which it is!

Now we can get on with the next 4 - Geelong, Gold Coast, Essendon, Melbourne...bring em on I say

3/4 to pass?