Playing for your Career

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 17053
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3665 times
Been thanked: 2927 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619383Post skeptic »

saintbob wrote:
To the top wrote:When you have the recent win/loss record that St Kilda has and you are looking to improve team performance the spotlight is on every player - and perhaps, just perhaps there is too much focus on the Captain to bring a "feel good" story the Club seem to be relying on at present.

I would put that, to play the REQUIRED part in a resurgence at St Kilda all of Roberton, Lee, Geary, Delaney, Savage, Webster, Membrey, Weller, Minchington and Wright of tomorrow's 22 are under pressure this week and every week they are selected (noting that, if they continue to be selected and the team is winning their chances are improved) - as are all those who are not in the 22 apart from Billings, Freeman, Carlisle, Riewoldt, Goddard, Fisher and Dempster,

That is the brutal assessment of where we sit and why.

Even given the injuries, anything other than a convincing win tomorrow is not negotiable - otherwise careers are marked and players are just treading water ahead of season's end.
Membrey had been our best forward for the last month, Savage and Weller have both had a very good year.

Roberton, Geary and Webster have done more than enough to keep their spots.

The only ones I see playing for their careers in that group are Lee, Delaney, Minchington and Wright, and that's exactly why Richo is playing them!!!

The problem with that statement IMHO is that when/if you have preferential treatment of particular players over others... Heads drop and morale lowers.
A really common argument you get when argue that player x could have done well but wasn't given ample opportunity is: what have they done since is... Well what have they done since.

Now imagine this scenario...

Your Tom Lee. You were a forward but you were vanquished to the VFL to become a defender. You played at Sandy in defence. You did really well. Most weeks, you not only beat your opponent but you delivered a lot of drive. You got now senior opportunities despite s number of BOG Performances.
In 2016, you got given two games against high level opposition. You did ok. You were dropped. In the mean time, Sam Gilbert has been absolutely appalling... You had roughly 15 disposals in each of your games as a defender, and Gilbert has had 30 disposals in 4 games as a midfielder.

The coach raves on about how in an 80+ point loss vs Adelaide Gilbert got 10 possessions as a midfielder and yet you cant get a game despite playing consistently well in the VFL and doing better than that in your limited opportunities.

In addition to that, Roberton got 9 disposals vs Essendon and kept his spot whilst Lee got 14 and 19 disposal games and was dropped.

Are you honestly saying you wouldn't drop your head?
Delaney was the number 1 defender 2 seasons ago and now can barely get a game in the Sandy development team but is all of a sudden called up to the game v Carlton... And now we say he's playing for his career... He's got a game or 2 to prove himself.

It's erratic. IMO we set players up to fail.


Scollop
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12123
Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
Has thanked: 3713 times
Been thanked: 2581 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619405Post Scollop »

The coach obviously made a call on Lee and on Delaney quite a while ago (and I think he got this right) but as far as Gilbo getting a game each week ahead of Murdoch and Acres and Sinclair and Minchy, I just don't get it. If Sam is not tearing it up and if he's not consistent then why is he still in Richo's plans for 2018? If any of the guys coming in today have more of an impact on the game than Gilbo and they get dropped there will be a growing chorus of fans and supporters questioning our coach and the match commitee


BringBackMadDog
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu 05 Aug 2004 9:29am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619413Post BringBackMadDog »

skeptic wrote:Agree with your post...

I hate that it comes down to this though. So Lee gets his 3rd game in 2 years and is playing for his career whilst there are other players that get gifted a lot more but somehow escape the pressure.

One thing I think we're the best club at is setting guys up to fail.

Personally I think both of Lee and Delaney should have each played 10 or so games more each in the last 2 years and we'd have more info to make a proper call as opposed to looking at Lee's two ok games this season and saying yep he's not up to it.

The protocol should look more like what they're doing with Minch. Was given a run of games, was dropped, forced his way back in and gets another chance... Rinse, repeat.
They don't get games because they just aren't good enough, simple really.


User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 17053
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3665 times
Been thanked: 2927 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619503Post skeptic »

BringBackMadDog wrote:
skeptic wrote:Agree with your post...

I hate that it comes down to this though. So Lee gets his 3rd game in 2 years and is playing for his career whilst there are other players that get gifted a lot more but somehow escape the pressure.

One thing I think we're the best club at is setting guys up to fail.

Personally I think both of Lee and Delaney should have each played 10 or so games more each in the last 2 years and we'd have more info to make a proper call as opposed to looking at Lee's two ok games this season and saying yep he's not up to it.

The protocol should look more like what they're doing with Minch. Was given a run of games, was dropped, forced his way back in and gets another chance... Rinse, repeat.
They don't get games because they just aren't good enough, simple really.
But other players play poorer games and get multiple chances. You really don't see a disconnect?

And personally, with a player like Lee do u really have enough info to make an objective call. I guess you think you do but I'd based on what his produced... I don't see how u can be so quick to shut the door


User avatar
Con Gorozidis
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23532
Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 78 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619507Post Con Gorozidis »

Tom Lee giving Everitt a bath

Everitt 2016 season average = 2 goals, 5 marks, 14.6 disposals.

Half time today: 3 disposals, 1 mark.


User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10800
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 838 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619579Post ace »

Great work mids cut the Carlscum to shreds.

The Scum were more intersted in bashing Jack Steven than winning.
The problem for them was the video meant they could not do what the scum Serge Silvagni and John Nichols would do to Darrell Baldock.


The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
User avatar
shrodes
SS Life Member
Posts: 3109
Joined: Tue 12 Aug 2014 2:34pm
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 795 times
Been thanked: 440 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619583Post shrodes »

Con Gorozidis wrote:Tom Lee giving Everitt a bath

Everitt 2016 season average = 2 goals, 5 marks, 14.6 disposals.

Half time today: 3 disposals, 1 mark.
I think the question most people have is what can Lee offer besides stopping power? We already have Delaney who is a servicable stopper on a big forward but offers no other offensive capability (and we look resigned to letting him go). This kind of player doesn't really suit today's style of game. We need strong defenders who can offer rebound as well. I'd like to see more of that silky disposal from Lee that everyone talks about.


felix
Club Player
Posts: 1236
Joined: Tue 08 Nov 2011 3:29pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619590Post felix »

shrodes wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Tom Lee giving Everitt a bath

Everitt 2016 season average = 2 goals, 5 marks, 14.6 disposals.

Half time today: 3 disposals, 1 mark.
I think the question most people have is what can Lee offer besides stopping power? We already have Delaney who is a servicable stopper on a big forward but offers no other offensive capability (and we look resigned to letting him go). This kind of player doesn't really suit today's style of game. We need strong defenders who can offer rebound as well. I'd like to see more of that silky disposal from Lee that everyone talks about.
Jeeeez us enjoy a win ffs


User avatar
skeptic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 17053
Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
Has thanked: 3665 times
Been thanked: 2927 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619596Post skeptic »

shrodes wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Tom Lee giving Everitt a bath

Everitt 2016 season average = 2 goals, 5 marks, 14.6 disposals.

Half time today: 3 disposals, 1 mark.
I think the question most people have is what can Lee offer besides stopping power? We already have Delaney who is a servicable stopper on a big forward but offers no other offensive capability (and we look resigned to letting him go). This kind of player doesn't really suit today's style of game. We need strong defenders who can offer rebound as well. I'd like to see more of that silky disposal from Lee that everyone talks about.
He needs to play for that though


User avatar
ace
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10800
Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 838 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619652Post ace »

Great work mids cut the Carlscum to shreds.

The Scum were more intersted in bashing Jack Steven than winning.
The problem for them was the video meant they could not do what the scum Serge Silvagni and John Nichols would do to Darrell Baldock.


The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.

If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
lintonstreet
Club Player
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu 09 Jun 2016 8:40pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619655Post lintonstreet »

saintbob wrote:
To the top wrote:When you have the recent win/loss record that St Kilda has and you are looking to improve team performance the spotlight is on every player - and perhaps, just perhaps there is too much focus on the Captain to bring a "feel good" story the Club seem to be relying on at present.

I would put that, to play the REQUIRED part in a resurgence at St Kilda all of Roberton, Lee, Geary, Delaney, Savage, Webster, Membrey, Weller, Minchington and Wright of tomorrow's 22 are under pressure this week and every week they are selected (noting that, if they continue to be selected and the team is winning their chances are improved) - as are all those who are not in the 22 apart from Billings, Freeman, Carlisle, Riewoldt, Goddard, Fisher and Dempster,

That is the brutal assessment of where we sit and why.

Even given the injuries, anything other than a convincing win tomorrow is not negotiable - otherwise careers are marked and players are just treading water ahead of season's end.
Membrey had been our best forward for the last month, Savage and Weller have both had a very good year.

Roberton, Geary and Webster have done more than enough to keep their spots.

The only ones I see playing for their careers in that group are Lee, Delaney, Minchington and Wright, and that's exactly why Richo is playing them!!!

I agree word for word with your summation.
Having just arrived home from the game, lee Delaney and Wright had relatively quiet ones while I think Minch put his hand up.
Wrighty did lay a few tackles and pressured in general play.


User avatar
shrodes
SS Life Member
Posts: 3109
Joined: Tue 12 Aug 2014 2:34pm
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 795 times
Been thanked: 440 times

Re: Playing for your Career

Post: # 1619711Post shrodes »

felix wrote:
shrodes wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:Tom Lee giving Everitt a bath

Everitt 2016 season average = 2 goals, 5 marks, 14.6 disposals.

Half time today: 3 disposals, 1 mark.
I think the question most people have is what can Lee offer besides stopping power? We already have Delaney who is a servicable stopper on a big forward but offers no other offensive capability (and we look resigned to letting him go). This kind of player doesn't really suit today's style of game. We need strong defenders who can offer rebound as well. I'd like to see more of that silky disposal from Lee that everyone talks about.
Jeeeez us enjoy a win ffs
Trust me, I enjoyed the win as much as anyone on here, especially after NZ last year and last week. I just think there are still question marks on Lee, and he needs to get more games and more looks to work out if he's a fixture down back. Unlike some around here, I hope he makes it!


Post Reply