Nathan freeman hamstring tightness

[Impatient Sainter]

I question the clubs decision in trading for this kid, but we have far too much invested to give up now. Its time to investigate oversees treatment as we have done with Hickey etc.

He has a fairly healthy 3 year contract, which on top of the Carlisle trade really highlighted what an indifferent 2015 trade/off season Ameet and the recruitment team had. But now is not the time to give up on Freeman we need to get some bang for our buck.

Was it ever confirmed what we are actually paying Carlisle this year - after all the media spin?

[PremiershipSaint]

Just don't tell Ameet Bains this was a bad trade on twitter or he'll block you.

[Johnny Member]

I question the clubs decision in trading for this kid, but we have far too much invested to give up now. Its time to investigate oversees treatment as we have done with Hickey etc.

He has a fairly healthy 3 year contract, which on top of the Carlisle trade really highlighted what an indifferent 2015 trade/off season Ameet and the recruitment team had. But now is not the time to give up on Freeman we need to get some bang for our buck.

Was it ever confirmed what we are actually paying Carlisle this year - after all the media spin?

I don't agree with the Carlisle bit.

We've seen this year how dire our backline stocks are. Especially in the size department.

[Impatient Sainter]

I question the clubs decision in trading for this kid, but we have far too much invested to give up now. Its time to investigate oversees treatment as we have done with Hickey etc.

He has a fairly healthy 3 year contract, which on top of the Carlisle trade really highlighted what an indifferent 2015 trade/off season Ameet and the recruitment team had. But now is not the time to give up on Freeman we need to get some bang for our buck.

Was it ever confirmed what we are actually paying Carlisle this year - after all the media spin?

I don't agree with the Carlisle bit.

We've seen this year how dire our backline stocks are. Especially in the size department.

I agree we needed a quality tall defender and Carlisle was available, so I never had problems going after him. But I just think Ameet and co folded under pressure and gave up far too much for him particularly when the cocaine stuff come out a day after the contract was signed. It made us look like complete amateurs...and were again bent over by one of the supposed power clubs.

[Johnny Member]

FWIW, anyone that saw it like that, has an inferiority complex in my opinion.

[MC Gusto]

my faith that this was the exec and admin team to pull us out of the traditional st kilda hopelessness is seriously waning.

[saintsRrising]

I agree we needed a quality tall defender and Carlisle was available, so I never had problems going after him. But I just think Ameet and co folded under pressure and gave up far too much for him

And so what do you actually believe should have been an achievable trade then?

Deal was never going to Carlisle for a second round pick. That is fantasy stuff. I think the so-called pressure seems to be only really based on what internet posters were hoping would happen in that we would somehow screw the EFC and get Carlisle for very liitle.
Equally St Kilda was never going to trade Carlisle for Pick 5 as a straight swap.

Deal was as most expected in between.

particularly when the cocaine stuff come out a day after the contract was signed. It made us look like complete amateurs...and were again bent over by one of the supposed power clubs.

Deal was done by then and so has no relevance as to what the trade should have been


Personally after recent weeks the deal is looking better than ever. Fisher has done a hammy again following his pattern of recent years. Lee has not yet made it. Delaney lookes gone. Goddard is looking like a pick 21 (ie handy but not a star an so will be a good foil to Carlisle and not a "book-end" in himself).


PS: Yes the Freeman trade is making me nervous as clearly his hammy's are not yet under control and may well never be.

[PremiershipSaint]

I agree we needed a quality tall defender and Carlisle was available, so I never had problems going after him. But I just think Ameet and co folded under pressure and gave up far too much for him

And so what do you actually should have been an achievable trade then?

Deal was never going to Carlisle for a second round pick. That is fantasy stuff. I think the so-called pressure seems to be only really based on what internet posters were hoping would happen in that we would somehow screw the EFC and get Carlisle for very liitle.
Equally St Kilda was never going to trade Carlisle for Pick 5 as a straight swap.

Deal was as most expected in between.

particularly when the cocaine stuff come out a day after the contract was signed. It made us look like complete amateurs...and were again bent over by one of the supposed power clubs.

Deal was done by then and so has no relevance as to what the trade should have been


Personally after recent weeks the deal is looking better than ever. Fisher has done a hammy again following his pattern of recent years. Lee has not yet made it. Delaney lookes gone. Goddard is looking like a pick 21 (ie handy but not a star an so will be a good foil to Carlisle and not a "book-end" in himself).


PS: Yes the Freeman trade is making me nervous as clearly his hammy's are not yet under control and may well never be.

People were hoping to get Carlisle for 2 second round picks although I'm ok with what we gave up for Carlisle but Freeman was overs for someone who couldn't even get on the park for 2 years.

[Con Gorozidis]

Trade period last year was rank amateur hour from the club. We went in to the trade period with Bains telegraphing that we were after Carlisle and Freeman, Why he was so public about this I simply do not know. Because he was so public the Pies and Bombers knew they could hold off until the end and Bains was forced to take whatever deal was left to save face. Now if he didn't go public - saving face wouldnt have been an issue and he could have stuck to a strategy and not be moved.

I dont care what the club apologists have to say on this - telegraphing your intentions to the media before trade period was plain stupid. We essentially backed ourselves into a corner of our own making.

[saintsRrising]

Trade period last year was rank amateur hour from the club. We went in to the trade period with Bains telegraphing that we were after Carlisle and Freeman, Why he was so public about this I simply do not know..

Perhaps Con as both had to be traded for It is a bit hard to trade without involving the club involved is it not? This was not an auction where you could just turn up and bid last.

And also why would Carlisle and Freeman not test the waters with other suitors?

[saintsRrising]

I dont care what the club apologists have to say on this - telegraphing your intentions to the media before trade period was plain stupid. We essentially backed ourselves into a corner of our own making.

Can you actually explain how? How do the media and internet firms really influence deals for players?

There are a finite and restricted number of AFL Clubs that can be part of any deal. They ALL know what players may be open to new homes. Player Managers will hawk their charges around and List Managers will sound out Player Managers.

Do you really, really believe that everyone these days just sits around doing nothing till trade week starts?

If the price is deemed too high you just do not go through with the deal. If a player is in demand you will not get im for peanuts.


Occassionally a Ball like underhand deal gets done, but that is very rare.

[Johnny Member]

Personally after recent weeks the deal is looking better than ever. Fisher has done a hammy again following his pattern of recent years. Lee has not yet made it. Delaney lookes gone. Goddard is looking like a pick 21 (ie handy but not a star an so will be a good foil to Carlisle and not a "book-end" in himself).

Agree.

FWIW, I've said said all along that the worst result for us this year would be to finish 'mid-table' and basically have the well dry up in terms of getting good young talent to the club from the draft.

In a strange stroke of luck, not having Carlisle this year may well have saved us from pinching 2-3 extra games which could actually result in a low finish and some decent cracks at the Draft again - which we sorely need.

To have him step in next year is actually ideal as it turns out. As you say, especially considering recent events!

[MC Gusto]

Trading was rank amateur.

Revealed our cards early

Did not play hard enough on the Carlisle deal...forget the cocaine (although we could've thrown the no dickheads policy at them a tad more)

He had asked to leave
He had nominated st kilda
He had wada hanging over his head


These 3 factors were always there and frankly we just didn't go hard enough.

Freeman I have no idea - out of my realms - I guess if the medicos convince you they can get him right you go after him. Big if tho

[PremiershipSaint]

I dont care what the club apologists have to say on this - telegraphing your intentions to the media before trade period was plain stupid. We essentially backed ourselves into a corner of our own making.

Can you actually explain how? How do the media and internet firms really influence deals for players?

There are a finite and restricted number of AFL Clubs that can be part of any deal. They ALL know what players may be open to new homes. Player Managers will hawk their charges around and List Managers will sound out Player Managers.

Do you really, really believe that everyone these days just sits around doing nothing till trade week starts?

If the price is deemed too high you just do not go through with the deal. If a player is in demand you will not get im for peanuts.


Occassionally a Ball like underhand deal gets done, but that is very rare.

We'd have been laughed at if we allowed the Carlisle and Freeman deals to fall through. Not good for Ameet's ego.

[BigMart]

never be desperate in any deal

if it falls through, so be it.... he was over priced anyway.

[Con Gorozidis]

We'd have been laughed at if we allowed the Carlisle and Freeman deals to fall through. Not good for Ameet's ego.

Exactly. We never should have put ourselves in that position.

I guess the strategy was to telegraph it to the media and to other clubs with the hope that other teams would not bother with offers and thus leaving us with the only offer on the table - therefore giving us an advantage. But this is very naive. Firstly players can and do sometimes end up staying at their original club and second I doubt other clubs would give two hoots. They certainly wouldnt be 'spooked' or 'put off' by us going public. Hawthorn love doing deals in stealth mode. You want to be silent submarine that sneaks up and strikes a deal when noone expects it.

[loris]

You want to be silent submarine that sneaks up and strikes a deal when noone expects it.

Aka Swans getting Buddy Franklin, when all pundits had him signed sealed and delivered to GWS.

[whiskers3614]

You want to be silent submarine that sneaks up and strikes a deal when noone expects it.

Aka Swans getting Buddy Franklin, when all pundits had him signed sealed and delivered to GWS.

That's the difference between being a "giver" not a "receiver".

[Johnny Member]

Trading was rank amateur.

Revealed our cards early

Did not play hard enough on the Carlisle deal...forget the cocaine (although we could've thrown the no dickheads policy at them a tad more)

He had asked to leave
He had nominated st kilda
He had wada hanging over his head


These 3 factors were always there and frankly we just didn't go hard enough.

Freeman I have no idea - out of my realms - I guess if the medicos convince you they can get him right you go after him. Big if tho

There's definitely something to a club being chosen by a player.

Any club that is the designated club of choice for a player, yells it from the roof tops. And I think that's what we did.

We've done a bit of that over recent years. I think it's about building a perception and a bit of hype.


In the Blight/GT eras, we were the club of choice for a few big names early - and it seemed to snowball a bit. Whether or not it's just a coincidence, I'm not sure. But I do think clubs use it as an opportunity to be seen to be appealing, and to be seen to 'get their man'.

[saintsRrising]

You want to be silent submarine that sneaks up and strikes a deal when noone expects it.

Aka Swans getting Buddy Franklin, when all pundits had him signed sealed and delivered to GWS.

Well not really comparable.

The complaint was about paying "overs". Swans got Buddy as they were prepared to pay overs in $$$. He was a FA and so trade cost was not relevant. Though the $$$ did mean several players got squeezed out including Mummford.

Carlisle had to be traded and so that then had to involve picks and/or players which means that we had to involve a "third party" or other parties if other players were to be traded.

[asiu]

In a strange stroke of luck, not having Carlisle this year may well have saved us from pinching 2-3 extra games which could actually result in a low finish and some decent cracks at the Draft again - which we sorely need.

agreed.

(1 crack at it though coz its pay the piper time for NF with our 2nd)

[The Recruit]

Trade period last year was rank amateur hour from the club. We went in to the trade period with Bains telegraphing that we were after Carlisle and Freeman, Why he was so public about this I simply do not know. Because he was so public the Pies and Bombers knew they could hold off until the end and Bains was forced to take whatever deal was left to save face. Now if he didn't go public - saving face wouldnt have been an issue and he could have stuck to a strategy and not be moved.

I dont care what the club apologists have to say on this - telegraphing your intentions to the media before trade period was plain stupid. We essentially backed ourselves into a corner of our own making.

this is a load of garbage

[Toy Saint]

Better to deal is facts rather than emotion...

We've given up Goddard, dal Santo, McEvoy, Stanley, this years 1st pick and next years 2nd pick and we've got Savage, Acres, Dunstan, Carsile, Goddard and Freeman.

Right now we're well behind by games played and rating points, but if we lreview the situation in 5 years hopefully we'll be better placed. But it's not looking promising.....will Freeman ever play...is Carsile a coke head...will Goddard be up to it....Dunstan & Acres could both be good...but I reckon Savage is just a reliable B grader...

[WellardSaint]

You want to be silent submarine that sneaks up and strikes a deal when noone expects it.

Aka Swans getting Buddy Franklin, when all pundits had him signed sealed and delivered to GWS.

Exactly.
I can't imagine Bains going to an auction to buy a house, the auctioneer will tell the vendors "oh boy, put the champagne on ice, we've got a big fish here!"
he'd end up paying well over the reserve

[whiskers3614]

Never trust a person with a made up Christian name!